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Crazy idea. Do you agree with it?

Yes or No

  • Yes

    Votes: 13 50.0%

  • No

    Votes: 13 50.0%
  • Total voters
    26
Redress said:
Laws are an extention of the will of the very people you refer to. Anarchy does not work very well in the real world.
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No, it is the will of the government. In a properly constrained government the will of the People and the will of the government are the same. However, as a government becomes unbound, those two start to deviate significantly.
 
Henrin said:
Maybe instead of arresting people for treason that reveal wrong doings in the government we can celebrate them as patriots and tell the government to leave them the hell alone.
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I know, I'm sick of this (and all) governments treating criminals like criminals!
 
babilfish said:
I know, I'm sick of this (and all) governments treating criminals like criminals!
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Less the government itself is the criminal. Government doesn't treat itself as a criminal.
 
Ikari said:
Less the government itself is the criminal.
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Didn't know there was a person named government who could be charged with crimes.

Unless your alleging there are government officials who are acting in a criminal manner and who aren't being prosecuted for it?

Which you would have evidence for, of course?

Government doesn't treat itself as a criminal.
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Nope, government never do. Government just treat criminals like criminals.

Hehe.
 
Henrin said:
Maybe you should understand that no government is trustworthy. There is a reason to consider that my day to day activities are of their concern and no reason to trust them with any sort of private information.
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Maybe you should understand that trusting terrorists more than government is alot less trustworthy.
 
Ikari said:
Treason is what the government has been doing to us. This was nothing more than exposing government's sins against the People. It is The People who are the true sovereigns in this Republic, not the government.
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That must explain why the power to punish treason lies solely with Congress, not the People, as written in the US Constitution.
 
Surtr said:
That must explain why the power to punish treason lies solely with Congress, not the People, as written in the US Constitution.
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Because the People are allowed tools of revolt and we were expected to exercise it.
 
Surtr said:
Good luck with that.
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I'm sure that it's not something authoritative statists care much about; but the Republic was created for the People, not the government.
 
MaggieD said:
If he's a hero, he won't go to jail. If it's legal? He should spend a good 20 years there. You rolls the dice, you takes your chances. We need more heros. But not at the expense of our security.
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So would you have been a patriot or loyalist in the late 18th century?

Were these guys criminals? Did they deserve to go to jail?

the_boston_tea_party_16th_dece_hi.jpg
 
What about this?

Bill of Rights

Amendment IV

The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.
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The Fourth Amendment guards against the government’s ability to conduct unreasonable search and seizures when the individual party being searched has a “reasonable exception of privacy.”
- See more at: 4th Amendment
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Μολὼν λαβέ;1061916666 said:
So would you have been a patriot or loyalist in the late 18th century?

Were these guys criminals? Did they deserve to go to jail?

View attachment 67148768
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At that time, in that culture, I would have followed my husband's lead.
 
Redress said:
Wrong. There are mechanisms in place to put those in power who we want to make our laws. We call these things elections. We have the power, directly or indirectly, to control what government does. That you can't be bothered to use those mechanisms is not the fault of the laws.

Just like Manning had legal avenues to bring forth his allegations of misconduct, you have legal avenues to work towards change of any and every law.
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People did FOIA requests regarding these programs and also attempted lawsuits. The lawsuits were thrown out because the government would not release any information. In other words, people tried using the established legal processes to obtain this information and act on it and they were prevented by the government from doing so.
 
Surtr said:
It was created for the nation as a whole.
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It was made for the People as a whole, not the government itself. Of the People, for the People, by the People. When government acts against that, it commits treason.
 
Carleen said:
Maybe you should understand that trusting terrorists more than government is alot less trustworthy.
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A contradiction, considering most of the world's terrorists are in the government.
 
Surtr said:
That's nice, but he didn't complain when they put treason as a punishable offense in the Constitution. Because that's what this is. Treason.
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Treason against the United States, shall consist only in levying War against them, or in adhering to their Enemies, giving them Aid and Comfort. No Person shall be convicted of Treason unless on the Testimony of two Witnesses to the same overt Act, or on Confession in open Court.

The Congress shall have power to declare the Punishment of Treason, but no Attainder of Treason shall work Corruption of Blood, or Forfeiture except during the Life of the Person attained.
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Treason is pretty cut and dry in the Constitution. What this man did is not treason as defined by the Constitution of the United States which is the only definition that matters in this instance.

Espionage is a charge the government will attempt to place on him, but it will not hold. He is not a spy of any foreign government.

He is not a traitor. He is a patriot that revealed troubling things about our government which include complete violations of the 4th Amendment.
 
Surtr said:
That's nice, but he didn't complain when they put treason as a punishable offense in the Constitution. Because that's what this is. Treason.
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Indeed, Clapper should be arrested.
 
Μολὼν λαβέ;1061916666 said:
So would you have been a patriot or loyalist in the late 18th century?

Were these guys criminals? Did they deserve to go to jail?
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It doesn't matter. History is written from the eyes of the victor. So, we now define them all as patriots.
 
AreteCourage said:
Treason is pretty cut and dry in the Constitution. What this man did is not treason as defined by the Constitution of the United States which is the only definition that matters in this instance.

Espionage is a charge the government will attempt to place on him, but it will not hold. He is not a spy of any foreign government.
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Treason and espionage are two different things. What they will put him on trial for is a violation of 18 USC § 798, which will hold, because the release of classified information to unauthorized persons is a very serious offense.

He is not a traitor. He is a patriot that revealed troubling things about our government which include complete violations of the 4th Amendment.
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The courts won't see it that way, nor should they.
 
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