• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

Valedictorian Defies School District and Recites Lord's Prayer [W:618]

Should the school have banned the reading of the prayer by the student?

  • Yes

    Votes: 24 27.3%

  • No

    Votes: 60 68.2%

  • Undecided

    Votes: 4 4.5%
  • Total voters
    88
ChrisL said:
YES it does. Children do NOT have the same rights as adults do. Man, you're stubborn as hell. :roll:
Click to expand...

So you would be fine if an "adult" had done this at a college graduation?
 
ChrisL said:
Some people have a REAL difficult time with common sense. And seriously, I think these people are upset because they feel as if their religion is being persecuted simply by preventing some obnoxious boy from proselytizing at a school function.
Click to expand...

i myself am a christian, and i will fight those who try to smother my faith, however, as you said, this is just common sense, if all the students had come together to hold a prayer, i would have no problem, but with individuals using an audience, of people who wish to not participate...i see a problem.
 
ChrisL said:
LOl! It's tyranny now? Good grief!
Click to expand...

Are we calling an authority imposing unjust rules and oppression onto others, trampling their rights by another name?
 
AlabamaPaul said:
Yes, as bestowed by the school board. I'm not into semantics this evening...
Click to expand...

well then you have just shot your argument in the foot then!

you stated the school board bestowed a right....if the board can bestow, then the board, can take away and deny what he wishes to do.
 
ernst barkmann said:
well then you have just shot your argument in the foot then!

you stated the school board bestowed a right....if the board can bestow, then the board, can take away and deny what he wishes to do.
Click to expand...

My argument relates to freedoms while you want to argue semantics. If by graduating at the top of the class a person earns the privilege of addressing his/her classmates, why do you think that address requires prior approval?
 
ernst barkmann said:
well then you have just shot your argument in the foot then!

you stated the school board bestowed a right....if the board can bestow, then the board, can take away and deny what he wishes to do.
Click to expand...

Somehow, I don't think this was a captive audience. Anyone with the cajones to recite the Lord's Prayer at a high school gathering must be very assured in the fact their audience has an excitement launch point of -1.236..............................
 
AlabamaPaul said:
My argument relates to freedoms while you want to argue semantics. If by graduating at the top of the class a person earns the privilege of addressing his/her classmates, why do you think that address requires prior approval?
Click to expand...

tell me, can the student, get up before the audience and preform any free speech he /she desires?
 
ernst barkmann said:
tell me, can the student, get up before the audience and preform any free speech he /she desires?
Click to expand...

As far as I'm concerned, yes, and if you don't like what is being spoken, feel free to exit...
 
Bonzai said:
Somehow, I don't think this was a captive audience. Anyone with the cajones to recite the Lord's Prayer at a high school gathering must be very assured in the fact their audience has an excitement launch point of -1.236..............................
Click to expand...

but the fact is, people have come together for a reason, and it is for graduation, ...not to be used as a soapbox.

if i was in the audience, and someone started talking about wiggen,/witches, of something i find offensive ..i would not be pleased, as is some of the people in the audience over the lords prayer.
 
ChrisL said:
Some are 18. The majority would still be 17 since graduation occurs in May which is only 5 months into the new year, unless they stayed back. And even so, they are still obliged to follow school rules.
Click to expand...

So they are only like what, a few months off? That doesn't seem that important to take note of.
 
ernst barkmann said:
but the fact is, people have come together for a reason, and it is for graduation, ...not to be used as a soapbox.

if i was in the audience, and someone started talking about wiggen,/witches, of something i find offensive ..i would not be pleased, as is some of the people in the audience over the lords prayer.
Click to expand...

I'm sure the King wasn't pleased with our founders either, but they found the gonads to speak...
 
ernst barkmann said:
but the fact is, people have come together for a reason, and it is for graduation, ...not to be used as a soapbox.

if i was in the audience, and someone started talking about wiggen,/witches, of something i find offensive ..i would not be pleased, as is some of the people in the audience over the lords prayer.
Click to expand...

Well, then all the speaker is guilty of is making an inappropriate speech and maybe making some people uncomfortable at his awkwardness.............Teenagers are like that.............................
 
AlabamaPaul said:
As far as I'm concerned, yes, and if you don't like what is being spoken, feel free to exit...
Click to expand...

so your saying you, can with you exercise free speech, say things which are offense to other people who have just come to a graduation of their child.

so the next time, you go to a gathering of people, and someone sitting next to your wife, they can exercise free speech and say things to her which are offensive.....and she has to deal with it, or leave?
 
ernst barkmann said:
so your saying you, can with you exercise free speech, say things which are offense to other people who have just come to a graduation of their child.

so the next time, you go to a gathering of people, and someone sitting next to your wife, they can exercise free speech and say things to her which are offensive.....and she has to deal with it, or leave?
Click to expand...

Actually, they might have to deal with the consequences before I escort her out. You're usually a bit more logical than this...
 
ernst barkmann said:
so your saying you, can with you exercise free speech, say things which are offense to other people who have just come to a graduation of their child.

so the next time, you go to a gathering of people, and someone sitting next to your wife, they can exercise free speech and say things to her which are offensive.....and she has to deal with it, or leave?
Click to expand...

If we're talking legally here, and the words aren't either fighting words (as recognised by the courts) or obscenities (as recognised by the courts), then yes, you got the gist of it. The speaker's free speech right trumps your wife's nonexistent right to not [choose to] be offended.
 
AlabamaPaul said:
Actually, they might have to deal with the consequences before I escort her out. You're usually a bit more logical than this...
Click to expand...

in fact i am being quit logical......

becuase your right to speech in limited in a public buildings, this helps prevent arguments between people and fights from erupting.

what your describing is, you will hurt someone if they offend your wife...and thats normal, its human nature!...anyone would not want to see their wife offended, and that's why speech is limited in public budilings and you are not allowed to say anything you want to.
 
AlabamaPaul said:
Okay, let's assume you're correct. What difference does it make? They are either getting ready to go of to college or enter the workforce. They are adults for all practical purposes, but that is not really the point. The point is the government shall make no law regarding the free exercise of religion or freedom of speech. I don't need government to protect me from being offended...
Click to expand...

Actually they are not emancipated until they are 18.
 
AlabamaPaul said:
Actually, they might have to deal with the consequences before I escort her out. You're usually a bit more logical than this...
Click to expand...

I was high at my high school graduation.................FYI.........................
 
AlabamaPaul said:
My argument relates to freedoms while you want to argue semantics. If by graduating at the top of the class a person earns the privilege of addressing his/her classmates, why do you think that address requires prior approval?
Click to expand...

So he can drop trou and talk about the value of nudism in a free society?
 
clownboy said:
If we're talking legally here, and the words aren't either fighting words (as recognised by the courts) or obscenities (as recognised by the courts), then yes, you got the gist of it. The speaker's free speech right trumps your wife's nonexistent right to not [choose to] be offended.
Click to expand...

not so close, your right to say anything is protected on your own property... it not protected on public property like buildings, if a person has to transact business , say the DMV, getting a license to drive, that person does not have to sit there and listen to you speak fowl names...while they wait to be served.
 
ernst barkmann said:
in fact i am being quit logical......

becuase your right to speech in limited in a public buildings, this helps prevent arguments between people and fights from erupting.

what your describing is, you will hurt someone if they offend your wife...and thats normal, its human nature!...anyone would not want to see their wife offended, and that's why speech is limited in public budilings and you are not allowed to say anything you want to.
Click to expand...

ernst, we're not discussing inflammatory speech. The discussion concerns a student's belief that his right to free expression of religion trumps the political correctness of some thinking that it equates to a governmental "establishment" of religion. You're usually more of a defender of the country's founding, but if we all thought we should blindly acquiesce to governmental control, we would be little more than a country of robots...
 
ernst barkmann said:
not so close, your right to say anything is protected on your own property... it not protected on public property like buildings, if a person has to transact business , say the DMV, getting a license to drive, that person does not have to sit there and listen to you speak fowl names...while they wait to be served.
Click to expand...

If I were standing in line for a driver's license, there is nothing stopping me from reciting the Lord's Prayer or stating I hate religion. Free speech is not restricted to one's property...
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom