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Valedictorian Defies School District and Recites Lord's Prayer [W:618]

Should the school have banned the reading of the prayer by the student?

  • Yes

    Votes: 24 27.3%

  • No

    Votes: 60 68.2%

  • Undecided

    Votes: 4 4.5%
  • Total voters
    88
I think he had a right to say it but it just looks nuts. He might as well have said...

Mairzy doats and dozy doats and liddle lamzy divey
A kiddley divey too, wouldn't you?
 
grip said:
I think he had a right to say it but it just looks nuts. He might as well have said...

Mairzy doats and dozy doats and liddle lamzy divey
A kiddley divey too, wouldn't you?
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ok......
 
Zyphlin said:
People having an issue with it, but not claiming its "unconstitutional".

I think there's a big difference between "It's going to offend the crowd, don't do it" and claiming "That's unconstutional! You can't do it".
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Constitutional or not, my opinion is that the student exhibited extremely poor taste. It was rude, self-serving and inconsiderate. It was unnecessary. The child's misguided zealotry will ensure that the school and all schools in that district closely monitor any and all religious acts in the future, however slight. I doubt that was his intent, but it will be the result.

Religion can be a loving and compassionate guide, a living example of peace and harmony for all people or it can be a bludgeon forced on the masses so that they might choose whether or not to accept it.

My position is not in opposition to Christianity in this case, but rather to how a worthy faith was used in poor taste and thus caused disharmony and expressions of anger.

In John 8:12 Jesus said: "Again Jesus spoke to them, saying, “I am the light of the world. Whoever follows me will not walk in darkness, but will have the light of life.” Jesus clearly meant, "If you choose to follow me, I will show you the way." He meant that his example of love and compassion will light the darkness and ultimately guide those who choose to follow (his example) to eternal love. What he did not say and did not mean is "shine my light in everyone's eyes and make them blind".

I think most here who disagree with the actions of the student in OP are not critical of his faith, but rather his misguided and potentially harmful use of it.
 
Ray410 said:
What country and flag is your loyalty to, Winston?
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The US where conservative or liberal all are American people endowed with equal rights.
 
I am not to familiar with the story, but I don't think there is anything wrong with the student saying what he wants. He was the top student in his class, and for a few minutes he got to hold the students and their families as a captive audience. I am not religious, and I am an agnostic, but I have zero problem with the student saying whatever he wanted to say. He was the top student, he got his 15 minutes of fame, and it's okay with me.
 
Valedictorian Defies School District and Recites Lord's Prayer

Redress said:
False. He is free to say anything he wants and express any view he wants when not speaking at a state sponsored event. Free speech does not mean that you can say anything, any where, at any time.
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Is he an employee of the government?
 
Ikari said:
I'm not calling him a brave hero. What I'm saying is that this isn't as big a deal as people seem to want to make it.
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Actually, I agree. I just strongly disagree with those who say this is a free speech issue.

I don't have a problem with this so long as equal treatment is given to all opinions.
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Except there was no equal treatment involved here. The valedictorian has special treatment. A special position that no one else can share.

Now the gross spying and databasing our government is doing against us, THAT'S something to get all riled up over.
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No argument here. :)
 
davidtaylorjr said:
Last I checked all 50 states were important.
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That's nonsense. You state is important to the union in the same way Rhode Island is important. If you were to leave the country, very little would change.
 
Mathematician said:
Then plug your damn ears! This student earned the privilege of speaking about their success. Mentioning of God or religion motivating them doesn't flip the switch on your religion, thus you still have the freedom of religion. It's not freedom from religion. Got it?
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Supreme Court Ruling:

The right to engage in voluntary prayer does not include the right to have a captive audience for that prayer or to compel other students to participate.
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Zyphlin said:
HEARING another person pray or speak about religion is "imposing their religious views" upon people?
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I've posted this about 15 times already but apparently nobody understands it so I will post it again.

Supreme Court Ruling:

The right to engage in voluntary prayer does not include the right to have a captive audience for that prayer or to compel other students to participate.
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Geoist said:
He is not only representing himself, he is representing his school and graduating class.
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While on the job, sure. While sitting at home in his underwear posting online under a pseudonym, no.
 
Geoist said:
Then you have proven my point. Since the administration did not have to give the valedictorian the podium his position was that of privilege, not a right.
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They didn't have to, but they did. The valedictorian used that forum that was offered to them to make a speech that you don't like. Don't want it to happen again, don't offer the opportunity again.
 
Risky Thicket said:
I think most here who disagree with the actions of the student in OP are not critical of his faith, but rather his misguided and potentially harmful use of it.
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Your post is all well and good, but the post I was responding to was seemingly trying to play the "Gotcha, hypocrite!" card by suggesting that conservatives would act in a similar fashion as some liberals are acting now if it was the Muslim Call to Prayer instead of the Lords Prayer. My point was that the actions would likely NOT be similar, as the foundation of much of the liberal response has been that its unconstitutional because it's a violation of church and state and I suggested that would NOT be the response you'd likely get from Conservatives.
 
iacardsfan said:
I've posted this about 15 times already but apparently nobody understands it so I will post it again.

Supreme Court Ruling:
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Yep, thanks. Sorry that after I had posted.

My one issue is this runs a VERY thin line in my eye because it was not the school or a school official making the statement, it was a student. The Constitution limits the GOVERNMENT, not individuals. I'm not quite sure if all restrictions we'd place on what a school administrator in terms of what they could say are the same that should be placed upon a student.
 
Zyphlin said:
Yep, thanks. Sorry that after I had posted.

My one issue is this runs a VERY thin line in my eye because it was not the school or a school official making the statement, it was a student. The Constitution limits the GOVERNMENT, not individuals. I'm not quite sure if all restrictions we'd place on what a school administrator in terms of what they could say are the same that should be placed upon a student.
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I can see what you are saying. But I believe personally since it was a school sponsored event then it would fall under the same category, but either way it's not a huge deal in my eyes, just pointing out there was a case on it :D
 
iacardsfan said:
I can see what you are saying. But I believe personally since it was a school sponsored event then it would fall under the same category, but either way it's not a huge deal in my eyes, just pointing out there was a case on it :D
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Just as a matter of even application of constitutional restrictions...

If a student back in 2006 or so got up for their Valedictorian speech and in the midst of it made a passionate case against the Iraq war and proceed to proclaim that George Bush is a criminal who is guilty of violating the laws of the united states, would you beleive that'd be a violation of the constitution as well since it's a school sponsored event?

After all, the Government is required to presume innocence and a government official couldn't come out proclaiming that an individual citizen is guilty of a crime they've not been found guilty of. And it would be a "government sponsored" event, so would the kid be guilty of engaging in unconstitutional activity?
 
iacardsfan said:
Supreme Court Ruling:

The right to engage in voluntary prayer does not include the right to have a captive audience for that prayer or to compel other students to participate.
Click to expand...
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And you can keep on posting it and it will continue to be ignored. There is no "captive audience" here. This is not a mandatory event. It's entirely voluntary. There is no law mandating graduation ceremonies, they are strictly tradition and are not required for actual matriculation.

I've posted twice where the SCOTUS considers student speech like that of the valedictorian to be expressions of the student's views, NOT the school's views and thus are protected under the First.
 
clownboy said:
And you can keep on posting it and it will continue to be ignored. There is no "captive audience" here. This is not a mandatory event. It's entirely voluntary. There is no law mandating graduation ceremonies, they are strictly tradition and are not required for actual matriculation.

I've posted twice where the SCOTUS considers student speech like that of the valedictorian to be expressions of the student's views, NOT the school's views and thus are protected under the First.
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Of course they won't listen. They are dogmatic that no religion should ever be expressed publically. I would venture to say they would love to see street preachers done with too.
 
Zyphlin said:
Your post is all well and good, but the post I was responding to was seemingly trying to play the "Gotcha, hypocrite!" card by suggesting that conservatives would act in a similar fashion as some liberals are acting now if it was the Muslim Call to Prayer instead of the Lords Prayer. My point was that the actions would likely NOT be similar, as the foundation of much of the liberal response has been that its unconstitutional because it's a violation of church and state and I suggested that would NOT be the response you'd likely get from Conservatives.
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Oh, I see what you were saying. Let me clarify that I wasn't coming from a political perspective. I truly am independent and Independent politically. I am non-partisan and often non-political. I don't see the issue as a liberal/conservative issue. I don't necessarily see it as a Christian issue. As I stated in another post, I question the kid's intentions. Others have stated several times that Christians are often being treated unfairly. I've responded by asking each poster for specific examples of what they have stated. All have chosen not to reply.

Christians, Buddhists, Taoists, Jews, conservatives, liberals, libertarians, etc. are sometimes wrong in their actions and words. I've never taken that to mean therefore that one wrong action or statement from one of the above does not warrant an indictment of the groups to which the belong or with which they identify. In this instance to disagree with kid's commencement behavior does not mean that all Christians are bad, all conservatives are bad (in fact I don't know if the kid is a conservative or not) or all students are bad or all South Carolinians are bad. I haven't said that and I don't see many here who have, though yes, some can't wait to make every issue a conservative vs. liberal issue. I see that as being disingenuous and I try very hard to ignore that ever tiring dribble. It serves little purpose.
 
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