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Valedictorian Defies School District and Recites Lord's Prayer [W:618]

Should the school have banned the reading of the prayer by the student?

  • Yes

    Votes: 24 27.3%

  • No

    Votes: 60 68.2%

  • Undecided

    Votes: 4 4.5%
  • Total voters
    88
Who knows, maybe if he hadn't of tried to be sneaky about it, the school would've allowed him to say the prayer. We're not even sure if the prayer was the issue. I think the REAL issue is that he submitted a speech that was approved and then made a different speech at the ceremony.
 
Bonzai said:
One has to ask oneself: Is the recent shtik they are on, I mean, the Christians whining about the horribleness of their victim "reality" , not the biggest joke in the history of mankind ?.........................
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I heard a student once tell another student whining about Christians being picked on: "Give me a ****ing break! If you want to see religious persecution, break out your prayer rug and get back too me!"
 
Fiddytree said:
No, he doesn't. He's at a public function organized and controlled by the school. He is underneath their authority. He doesn't get to say whatever he wants.
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He isn't there representing the public institution, is he? He is there representing himself and probably his classmates.
Yes, he is underneath their authority but he isn't part of the system. It's like, you are under the authority of the police, because you have to do what the police tells you, but you are a private citizen.

So yeah. He can say whatever you want and there is no fault in his speech from this POV.
 
Rainman05 said:
He isn't there representing the public institution, is he? He is there representing himself and probably his classmates.
Yes, he is underneath their authority but he isn't part of the system. It's like, you are under the authority of the police, because you have to do what the police tells you, but you are a private citizen.

So yeah. He can say whatever you want and there is no fault in his speech from this POV.
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It doesn't really work that way. The school is sponsoring the event and endorsing the student in question who is expected to give an address. A student's remarks are typically vetted, and serious deviations from the expected statement may come with consequences, which can range from cutting off the speech, or even holding up receiving the diploma. I err on suggesting that they cut off the speech at the most. I would not support holding up a student's diploma for something of this nature unless it was something incredibly egregious.
 
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Navy Pride said:
He earned position or right.
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As I stated before, rights are inherent, not earned. If you want to claim he earned the privilege, well he earned the privilege to speak to the rest of the graduating class, but it was clear he did not have the right or privilege to say ANYTHING he wanted.
 
clownboy said:
Happens with all the schools in the district I attended and the districts I've taught in. Even little Georgetown, where you can stand on one town boundry line and spit, hitting the opposite line. The students there had a combined graduation ceremony with the town over, held at the grange.
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Well its the first that I've heard it happening so it can't be all that widespread.
 
AlabamaPaul said:
Who the hell decided religion should be kept out of schools?
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No one decided that. Religion is taught in the World History class at my public school.
 
Ikari said:
Because it's a free country and we should be free. Free ain't simple, it ain't safe, it ain't easy; but it's better than the alternative.
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Its a free country sure. But is anyone free to use the school podium to give a speech? No. This is not a free speech issue. The child was dishonest about the contents of his speech and should not be commended as some 'brave hero.'
 
Fiddytree said:
Students have that sort of authority, but they have different expectations in comparison to educators. Educators are representatives of the public school district, a state entity. They have to, generally speaking, refrain from such speech.
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And the valedictorian isn't being a representative for his/her school through his/her graduation speech? You don't think there ought to be some expectations/standards? What if he decided to read the dictionary from cover to cover? Freedom of speech right?
 
Cephus said:
Rights override privileges most of the time. Don't like what he said, don't have him do it again. Oh wait, he's not going to...
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But to deny his right to speak at the podium again would be violating his 1st Amendment rights! :roll:
 
To those who think this is a free speech issue: Do you believe any student should have been allowed to walk up to the stage and start giving their own speech? Do you believe the administration would have had the right to stop them if they tried?
 
Geoist said:
But to deny his right to speak at the podium again would be violating his 1st Amendment rights! :roll:
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Notice I said "most of the time". When he's operating as an official representative of the state, that's different than when he's only representing himself.
 
Geoist said:
To those who think this is a free speech issue: Do you believe any student should have been allowed to walk up to the stage and start giving their own speech? Do you believe the administration would have had the right to stop them if they tried?
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Absolutely. You have a right to speak, nobody has a responsibility to give you a forum to do so.
 
Cephus said:
Notice I said "most of the time". When he's operating as an official representative of the state, that's different than when he's only representing himself.
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He is not only representing himself, he is representing his school and graduating class.
 
Cephus said:
Absolutely. You have a right to speak, nobody has a responsibility to give you a forum to do so.
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Then you have proven my point. Since the administration did not have to give the valedictorian the podium his position was that of privilege, not a right.
 
Geoist said:
And the valedictorian isn't being a representative for his/her school through his/her graduation speech? You don't think there ought to be some expectations/standards? What if he decided to read the dictionary from cover to cover? Freedom of speech right?
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Did you bother to read any of my earlier posts?
 
Fiddytree said:
Did you bother to read any of my earlier posts?
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I don't always have the time to read 40+ pages of one thread. ;)

But I do try to respond to everyone who quotes me. Please summarize your earlier point if you will, or direct me to it. :)
 
Removable Mind said:
Freedom of speech is not the right to be heard. This was a captured audience, not the same as some person standing on a soap box on a public street corner saying a prayer out loud.

I can bet you a bunch that not all in that auditorium held the same religious or spiritual beliefs.

Had the prayer been in Hebrew or in Arabic...there would be an explosion of objections ring out across the country.
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Nobody was required to be there, they were there by choice.
 
molten_dragon said:
Put me in the "who ****ing cares" camp. Don't we have more important things to worry about than this?

Students leading a prayer in front of a student assembly at a school function is a grey area between separation of church and state and freedom of speech. I honestly don't know whether it's right or wrong or what. And I don't really care, because it doesn't really matter. If the school wants to ban it, that's okay. If the school wants to allow it, I'm fine with that. How about we all grow up a little and quit being such whiners about the religion crap. Just because a school doesn't want a kid to say a prayer at graduation doesn't mean they're oppressing your religion or anything, they're just covering their asses. And just because someone does say a prayer at a school function once doesn't mean you need to lose your **** and start wailing about how America is becoming a theocracy.
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You do know that Constitutionally there is no such thing as Separation of Church and State right?
 
earthworm said:
We do NOT have unlimited freedom of speech.
To cite the Constitution when they are so vague about things , makes no sense...
What we do need is respect and civility, two more things not in the Constitution...
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And how does the Constitution limit this speech? It doesn't.
 
clownboy said:
There is always someone in the audience who objects to or just doesn't like something a commencement speaker says. Most of us take it in stride precisely because we are there to see someone we care about graduate.
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I don't disagree. But the fact that there are a other selfish douches out there does nothing to negate the selfish douche-ness of this particular action.
 
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