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Valedictorian Defies School District and Recites Lord's Prayer [W:618]

Should the school have banned the reading of the prayer by the student?

  • Yes

    Votes: 24 27.3%

  • No

    Votes: 60 68.2%

  • Undecided

    Votes: 4 4.5%
  • Total voters
    88
While I don't think it's THAT big of a deal, rules are rules. This is similar to another argument I had about a student's use of the word "hell" during her valedictorian speech. I wonder if this is similar to that case where the speech was pre-approved by a committee and then changed at the last minute on the whim of the student?
 
AlabamaPaul said:
His speech was approved, and he took it to the podium, conflicted as to actually delivering it as approved or going with his gut feelings. I doubt many would have had the gonads to go against the "committee"...
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Bonzai said:
Shall we assume you're all in on the Sunday school "revolution" ?.............................
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"Here I stand. I can do no other." --Martin Luther
Good evening, Gentlemen.:2wave:
 
Ah, I just went back to the OP and here it is.

Costner's impromptu speech was posted on YouTube, but that's not what the district said he turned in for approval.

The representative for the School District of Pickens County said Costner did recite some of his planned speech that was approved, but the original did not include religious comments.
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disneydude said:
It hurt the foundations of our Constitution. The fact other kids lie doesn't justify this kid. He claims and pretends to be a "Christian" and then displays deceitful behavior. He exposed himself as a fool.
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Are you a Christian?

The bible has instances of where people have lied and then later are held with high esteem like with Rahab in Joshua 2. I think if we are going on the assumption that the bible is the inspired word of God and if people like Rahab who have lied but are later praised and saved from destruction then maybe the rule regarding lieing isn't so cut and dry?

I don't know, it's not really the issue here either way though is it.
 
Jack Hays said:
"Here I stand. I can do no other." --Martin Luther
Good evening, Gentlemen.:2wave:
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Good evening 2m. Has RG III recovered sufficiently enough to endure another NFL season?
 
Our Father, Who art in heaven
Hallowed be Thy Name;
Thy kingdom come,
Thy will be done,
on earth as it is in heaven.
Give us this day our daily bread,
and forgive us our trespasses,
as we forgive those who trespass against us;
and lead us not into temptation,
but deliver us from evil. Amen.




Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.[1]


It is that simple.
 
Just leave the praying and the curse words OUT of speeches and there won't be a problem. :roll: I think people just do it for attention anyway. The valedictorian MUST be intelligent enough to realize that he was going to face some heat.
 
Monserrat said:
Are you a Christian?

The bible has instances of where people have lied and then later are held with high esteem like with Rahab in Joshua 2. I think if we are going on the assumption that the bible is the inspired word of God and if people like Rahab who have lied but are later praised and saved from destruction then maybe the rule regarding lieing isn't so cut and dry?

I don't know, it's not really the issue here either way though is it.
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Sure its an issue. The kid lied. You can't claim to be a Christian and lie in the same breath...and yes...I am a Christian...but I am not "Christian".
 
AlabamaPaul said:
Good evening 2m. Has RG III recovered sufficiently enough to endure another NFL season?
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All signs indicate he will start opening day. Whether he endures is in the hands of the football gods. His hold on this area's psyche is powerful.:mrgreen:
 
shlunka said:
Separation from church and state, the valedictorian is in the wrong. Simple as that.
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No he isn't, YOU ARE. You obviously know nothing whatsoever about the "separation" or the 1st Amendment. First off, he's not the church, he's a student and a citizen. That means he gets to say what he wants.
 
ChrisL said:
Just leave the praying and the curse words OUT of speeches and there won't be a problem. :roll: I think people just do it for attention anyway. The valedictorian MUST be intelligent enough to realize that he was going to face some heat.
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The Constitution implicitly guarantees freedom of religion, not freedom from religion...
 
disneydude said:
Sure its an issue. The kid lied. You can't claim to be a Christian and lie in the same breath...and yes...I am a Christian...but I am not "Christian".
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What does that mean? (what I bolded)

You can claim to be Christian and lie, Christians are humans too they're going to lie.
 
disneydude said:
Sure its an issue. The kid lied. You can't claim to be a Christian and lie in the same breath...and yes...I am a Christian...but I am not "Christian".
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Saying you're a Christian doesn't make it so.
 
American said:
No he isn't, YOU ARE. You obviously know nothing whatsoever about the "separation" or the 1st Amendment. First off, he's not the church, he's a student and a citizen. That means he gets to say what he wants.
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Yeah well, Thomas Jefferson NEVER wore sunglasses.
 
American said:
No he isn't, YOU ARE. You obviously know nothing whatsoever about the "separation" or the 1st Amendment. First off, he's not the church, he's a student and a citizen. That means he gets to say what he wants.
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I disagree based on the captive audience clause.

faqs
 
disneydude said:
Sure its an issue. The kid lied. You can't claim to be a Christian and lie in the same breath...and yes...I am a Christian...but I am not "Christian".
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This has NOTHING to do with the actual point of this debate.
 
ChrisL said:
See post #217.
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There was no captive audience. Anyone could have left the room if it was found offensive (except the school administrators :mrgreen:)...
 
ChrisL said:
Just leave the praying and the curse words OUT of speeches and there won't be a problem. :roll: I think people just do it for attention anyway. The valedictorian MUST be intelligent enough to realize that he was going to face some heat.
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disneydude said:
Sure its an issue. The kid lied. You can't claim to be a Christian and lie in the same breath...and yes...I am a Christian...but I am not "Christian".
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"Here I stand. I can do no other." --Martin Luther
A lie in resistance to illegitimate secular authority is not a problem in Christian theology.:peace
 
Had the prayer been recited as the following all hell would have broken loose:



أَبَانَا الذِي فِي السَّمَاوَاتِ،
لِيُقَدَّسَ اسْمُكَ.
لِيَأْتِ مَلَكُوتُكَ،
لِتَكُنْ مَشِيئَتُكَ فِي الأَرْضِ كَمَا السَّمَاءِ.
ارْزُقْنَا خُبْزَنَا كَفَافَ يَوْمِنَا،
وَ اعْفُ عَنْ خَطَايَانَا،
فَإِنَّنَا نَعْفُو عَمَّنْ يُخْطِئُونَ بِحَقِّنَا.
لاَ تُعَرِّضْنَا لِلغِوَايَةِ،
بَلْ نَجِّنَا مِنَ الشِّرِيرِ.
فَلَكَ المَلَكُوتُ وَ الجَبَرُوتُ وَ المَجْدُ أَبَداً.
 
AlabamaPaul said:
There was no captive audience. Anyone could have left the room if it was found offensive (except the school administrators :mrgreen:)...
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I think people attending a school sponsored event would be considered a captive audience in this situation.
 
Removable Mind said:
Had the prayer been recited as the following all hell would have broken loose:



أَبَانَا الذِي فِي السَّمَاوَاتِ،
لِيُقَدَّسَ اسْمُكَ.
لِيَأْتِ مَلَكُوتُكَ،
لِتَكُنْ مَشِيئَتُكَ فِي الأَرْضِ كَمَا السَّمَاءِ.
ارْزُقْنَا خُبْزَنَا كَفَافَ يَوْمِنَا،
وَ اعْفُ عَنْ خَطَايَانَا،
فَإِنَّنَا نَعْفُو عَمَّنْ يُخْطِئُونَ بِحَقِّنَا.
لاَ تُعَرِّضْنَا لِلغِوَايَةِ،
بَلْ نَجِّنَا مِنَ الشِّرِيرِ.
فَلَكَ المَلَكُوتُ وَ الجَبَرُوتُ وَ المَجْدُ أَبَداً.
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Yes, the reason why it is important to keep religion and school separate.
 
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