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Valedictorian Defies School District and Recites Lord's Prayer [W:618]

Should the school have banned the reading of the prayer by the student?

  • Yes

    Votes: 24 27.3%
  • No

    Votes: 60 68.2%
  • Undecided

    Votes: 4 4.5%

  • Total voters
    88
Any restriction of speech relating to religious expression would...

Here it is again, just for you. :)

Student religious expression may, however, raise Establishment Clause concerns when such expression takes place before a captive audience in a classroom or at a school-sponsored event. Students have the right to pray alone or in groups or to discuss their faith with classmates, as long as they aren't disruptive or coercive. And they may express their religious views in class assignments or discussions, as long as it is relevant to the subject under consideration and meets the requirements of the assignment.2 But students don’t have a right to force a captive audience to participate in religious exercises
 
Evening Polgara....that sounds harmless and fun. I think what this kid did was a little too devious. Breaking an agreement to recite a prayer sounds like a contradiction to me.

Good evening, Jack :2wave:

Reminds me of a true story I read a while back where a valedictorian wanted to include God in his speech, so he got the class together and stated that he would sneeze during his speech...and they would respond as a class "God bless you!" Went off without a hitch! :thumbs:
 
This is about the school setting guidelines and rules regarding speeches made at school sponsored events, not about me being offended. I'm not offended by the prayer at all, but I can understand how others might not want to be subjected to an unexpected sermon, and I can understand how the school wants to keep things like this from being a thorn in their sides.

I understand this isn't about you personally being offended Chris. But the probably correct supposition that someone in the audience may be offended is no bar to the speaker's right to speak in this case. In fact the SCOTUS was very clear about this. The valedictorian can say what he wants. The school officials, the only recourse they have is to turn off the mic.
 
As they say in Congress, I note that you have clarified and extended your remarks. Fair enough, but the valedictorian's speech was clearly in the protected category.:mrgreen:
no i pointer out your misunderstanding
and thats only your OPINION, something like that can not be determined by you

also note some of the cases you brought up agrees with me and disagrees with you
 
I understand this isn't about you personally being offended Chris. But the probably correct supposition that someone in the audience may be offended is no bar to the speaker's right to speak in this case. In fact the SCOTUS was very clear about this. The valedictorian can say what he wants. The school officials, the only recourse they have is to turn off the mic.

The school most certainly has the right to have students submit speeches for preapproval.
 
Here it is again, just for you. :)

And just for you, "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech". Court rulings are irrelevant in this regard...
 
Think for a second. I'm saying to let the valedictorian say what they want. That is, that rule shouldn't be there or should be more lenient. What the student wanted to say should not be reasonably deemed offensive.

Exactly.

Apparently the lords prayer is offensive to some people? :shrug:

Matt. 6(9-13)
“Our Father in heaven,
hallowed be your name.[a]
10 Your kingdom come,
your will be done,
on earth as it is in heaven.
11 Give us this day our daily bread,[c]
12 and forgive us our debts,
as we also have forgiven our debtors.
13 And lead us not into temptation,
but deliver us from evil.[d]



Yep that's very scary stuff right there (sarcasm)

This should be a non-issue and people should stop bitching about stupid **** like a prayer spoken in a culturally correct climate.
 
Okay, I thought for a second and here's what I came up with: Not offensive to who....anyone? You don't think that could offend someone who doesn't believe in his God? Would you be comfortable with a Muslim prayer.

No, I would not be offended. They are stating what they believe. If they're using their religion in a positive manner then all the power to them. Motivation for academic achievement is positive, regardless of which religion it came from.
 
The school most certainly has the right to have students submit speeches for preapproval.

Yes, but they have no right to compel the student to follow that pre-approved speech. Again, they can only cut off his/her mic as a consequence, that's the extent of their power.
 
Schools should not have to deal with these kinds of things. Lawyers are EXPENSIVE. Yes, there are people who would sue the school over things like this. These are all rational things that the school has to think about protecting itself from. They want to keep it vanilla, and they should be able to expect people (especially their students) to honor that.
 
Again for those who missed it:

Are valedictorians and salutatorians permitted to make religious remarks as a part of their speeches?

Yes, although such remarks must be “non-proselytizing” and “non-sectarian” in some jurisdictions.
When a school selects a student to speak at graduation through neutral, even-handed criteria (e.g., valedictorians or salutatorians selected to speak due to their grade point averages), and the student is given primary control of the content of the speech, such expression should not be limited due to its religious content. One Guideline issued by the U.S. Department of Education in 2003 that directly deals with this issue is entitled “Prayer at Graduation.”

School officials may not mandate or organize prayer at graduation or select speakers for such events in a manner that favors religious speech such as prayer. Where students or other private graduation speakers are selected on the basis of genuinely neutral, evenhanded criteria and retain primary control over the content of their expression, however, that expression is not attributable to the school and therefore may not be restricted because of its religious (or anti-religious) content. To avoid any mistaken perception that a school endorses student or other private speech that is not in fact attributable to the school, school officials may make appropriate, neutral disclaimers to clarify that such speech (whether religious or nonreligious) is the speaker’s and not the school’s.

Id. (emphasis added). Thus, valedictorians and salutatorians should be able to include religious content in their speeches, at least where they “retain primary control over the content of their expression,” because they are selected on the basis of neutral criteria.

The key question regarding speeches provided by valedictorians and salutatorians at graduations is whether such expression would be viewed as bearing the approval of the school and, if so, whether regulations of such expression are required to be viewpoint neutral.1 In the absence of a controlling opinion on these issues in a particular jurisdiction, graduation speeches by valedictorians and salutatorians should be reasonably understood as the student’s own expression rather than speech controlled or sponsored by the school. A reasonable person in attendance at a graduation ceremony understands that valedictorians and salutatorians are selected due to academic criteria and their remarks typically reflect their own views. Valedictorians and salutatorians should be able to share how their faith has impacted their lives without fear of censorship by school officials.

Link at #179.
 
No, I would not be offended. They are stating what they believe. If they're using their religion in a positive manner then all the power to them. Motivation for academic achievement is positive, regardless of which religion it came from.

Well you don't speak for everybody. There have been PLENTY of cases of lawsuits against schools about various things. The schools HAVE to remain neutral in matters like religion and politics.
 
Schools should not have to deal with these kinds of things. Lawyers are EXPENSIVE. Yes, there are people who would sue the school over things like this. These are all rational things that the school has to think about protecting itself from. They want to keep it vanilla, and they should be able to expect people (especially their students) to honor that.

Why should anyone feel compelled to follow an illegal directive?
 
And just for you, "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech". Court rulings are irrelevant in this regard...

Congress doesn't make those decisions. The locally elected school boards do I believe.
 
Well you don't speak for everybody. There have been PLENTY of cases of lawsuits against schools about various things. The schools HAVE to remain neutral in matters like religion and politics.

Good for them! **** this culture of catering to wussies offended over stupid ****!
 
Positive to who? If you disagree with Christianity, then the Lords Prayer isn't going to be the part of the speech that kicks your ambition into overdrive to succeed in college.

No, I would not be offended. They are stating what they believe. If they're using their religion in a positive manner then all the power to them. Motivation for academic achievement is positive, regardless of which religion it came from.
 
Congress doesn't make those decisions. The locally elected school boards do I believe.

School boards are only attempting to cover there own ass...
 
SOME people would consider a Christian prayer to be offensive. That is something you need to realize.

Lots of things are offensive, there isn't a right to not be offended.
 
are you asking my my opinion or want to know why the laws says so? because you cant agree with me yet i havent posted my opinion.

here is a link to many cases about it
School speech (First Amendment) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

if you are asking my opinion well i agree with the cases basically, its like the yelling fire or threatening somebody.

i believe i am agreeing with you, when a person is on school property ,that person does not have exercisable rights.

he cannot say anything he wants, he cant worship , assembly with anyone he wants, he cant bare a firearm, and he can be searched.
 
School boards are only attempting to cover there own ass...

Of course they are! Do you want your school's money going to fight lawsuits or to educate your child? WTH?
 
Positive to who? If you disagree with Christianity, then the Lords Prayer isn't going to be the part of the speech that kicks your ambition into overdrive to succeed in college.

And, unless you're a weak-minded *****, it won't kill your momentum, now will it?
 
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