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Institutional Racism [W:344]

Does institutional racism currently exist in America?


  • Total voters
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Yes, there if affirmative action and many educational institutions that give priority/positively factor in minority races in regards to accepting applicants. It's not everywhere, but it does exist.

thats not affirmative action no matter what people call it

with that said what you are describing does and has happened
 
Doesn't matter in terms of what we were talking about. You said commercial rap was anti-intellectual.


No, I wrote " While I agree with this, and the point about it being a symptom and not a cause, I would say commercial rap is pretty comfortable in the anti-intellectual bandwagon, and usually is just mired in various forms of ignorance."

Which isn't claiming something as exclusive to commercial rap, but that commercial rap is a particularly bad example of it

I said most genres of commercial music are anti-intellectual.

of which I do not disagree with.


You're original point about commercial rap being anti-intellectual is still meaningless since the label can be applied to every commercial genre of music.

Yes, if we totally ignore the question of degree...
 
Close. But I don't think we should just turn a blind eye to race, I think we need to actively stop treating people as if they are different based on where they are from or how much melatonin is in their skin. Its completely double speak to cry about racism and then turn around and advocate for things such as affirmative action. If we believe in equality, then people should be judged as equal and race shouldn't play a factor into getting a job or into a school. Saying one thing and doing another isn't helping anything as far as racism goes.
Nah, I'm going to have to agree with Dr. King on this one: "A society that has done something special against the Negro for hundreds of years must now do something special for the Negro."

The fact is that the sort of colorblindness you're advocating isn't really practical if you want to achieve equality. You have to acknowledge that certain races are starting at a disadvantaged position and, in turn, develop means of targeting those race based disadvantages.
 
No, I wrote " While I agree with this, and the point about it being a symptom and not a cause, I would say commercial rap is pretty comfortable in the anti-intellectual bandwagon, and usually is just mired in various forms of ignorance."

Which isn't claiming something as exclusive to commercial rap, but that commercial rap is a particularly bad example of it
It isn't "particular" when compared to other commercial music. Commercial pop, country, alternative and rap are equally anti-intellectual. They're just anti-intellectual in different ways.
 
Commercial anything is meant to appeal to the lowest common denominator. Hardly any of it - whether pop, country, alternative, et al. - is intellectual. Thus, singling commercial rap out as an anti-intellectual doesn't make any sense.

not only doesnt it make sense its broken logic. Music/movies etc are meaningless to this topic, their impact secondary
 
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It isn't "particular" when compared to other commercial music. Commercial pop, country, alternative and rap are equally anti-intellectual. They're just anti-intellectual in different ways.

I don't see how. Could you define "anti-intellectual" please? And again, do you regard jazz and classical music as "anti-intellectual"?
 
It isn't "particular" when compared to other commercial music. Commercial pop, country, alternative and rap are equally anti-intellectual. They're just anti-intellectual in different ways.

Yes, as you can see, the degree of ignorance and stupidity expressed in it far surpasses anything you will find in commercial pop music or country
 
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Those schools are failing because the people who go there don't care about getting an education. It's not the school that's at fault, it's the students and their parents.

I agree for the most part. I do think, however, that schools are way too concerned about pupil census. After a child hits 16? If they're complete disruptions to students and classrooms? Throw their asses out into the street. But, of course, schools don't do that because it costs them money. So every student suffers because of what amounts to a relative few -- setting poor examples, making fun of "nerds," making school hallways unsafe, the walk to-and-from a challenge.

In that way, I blame school administration. The teachers? They're probably sick of their jobs. I would be if I was trying to teach, entered the profession with ideals, and found I was babysitting majority fails.
 
dont only doesnt it make sense its broken logic. Music/movies etc are meaningless to this topic, their impact secondary

If you go back and read my original post, I make clear that I agree that it's a symptom and not a cause.
 
If you go back and read my original post, I make clear that I agree that it's a symptom and not a cause.

I read that it doesnt have an impact to what i said
 
I read that it doesnt have an impact to what i said

Yes it does, you apparently claimed it was "broken logic", because their impact is secondary. I'm pointing out I never wrote anything to the contrary, so your point of contention was about something that wasn't even claimed
 
So do you find jazz and classical music "anti-intellectual"?
Neither jazz nor classical music has a "commercial" sub-genre.

For the record, I'm defining commercial music as "prepared, done, or acting with sole or chief emphasis on salability, profit, or success". Examples include Blake Shelton, Kanye West and One Direction.
 
Yes it does, you apparently claimed it was "broken logic", because their impact is secondary. I'm pointing out I never wrote anything to the contrary, so your point of contention was about something that wasn't even claimed

nope, it factually doesnt and you are factually wrong.

just more BS you are making up in your head that nobody was implying, its all you seem to do

i was agreeing with another poster about focusing on any one music then i proceeded to make a comment about how looking at ANY music or movies is broken logic because its secondary at best.

I never mentioned you or even referred to you but please make up more arguments in your head LMAO

your mistake
 
I agree for the most part. I do think, however, that schools are way too concerned about pupil census. After a child hits 16? If they're complete disruptions to students and classrooms? Throw their asses out into the street. But, of course, schools don't do that because it costs them money. So every student suffers because of what amounts to a relative few -- setting poor examples, making fun of "nerds," making school hallways unsafe, the walk to-and-from a challenge.

In that way, I blame school administration. The teachers? They're probably sick of their jobs. I would be if I was trying to teach, entered the profession with ideals, and found I was babysitting majority fails.

In the inner cities, you have more than 50% of students dropping out anyhow, mostly because they know that they don't need an education, they're going to spend their lives dealing drugs, having illegitimate children and in prison or on welfare. That's what their parent(s) and their sub-culture teaches them they should do, but it remains their choice and their fault, you can't blame any of it on institutional racism. Nobody forces them to be idiots. They choose that for themselves.

All of the things you list are not causes of that kind of behavior, but consequences of it. Teachers get burned out having to deal with a culture that teaches their children to be disrespectful, that doesn't place a priority on education, etc. You have to place the blame on the people who are actually causing the problem and that's not the schools, it's the students.
 
Yes, as you can see, the degree of ignorance and stupidity expressed in it far surpasses anything you will find in commercial pop music or country
Nope. Lil B rapping, "Bitches suck my dick because I look like J.K. Rowling," is just as stupid as Katy Perry singing, "I kissed a girl and I liked it." They both are not only just dumb lyrics, but they both perpetuate ignorance surrounding women and sexuality. The only difference is that Lil B uses more explicit language which is only means that it offends some people's sensibilities.
 
Nope. Lil B rapping, "Bitches suck my dick because I look like J.K. Rowling," is just as stupid as Katy Perry singing, "I kissed a girl and I liked it." They both are not only just dumb lyrics, but they both perpetuate ignorance surrounding women and sexuality. The only difference is that Lil B uses more explicit language which is only means that it offends some people's sensibilities.

The video I posted didn't deal with sexual acts, it dealt with gang culture, and the person who produced it is facing a list of murder charges. And Katy Perry isn't offering rewards to people to rob lady gaga
 
I don't see how. Could you define "anti-intellectual" please?
Anti-intellectual: that which is opposed to or antithetical to the use of one's intellect

*rough definition, but it should get the point across
 
The video I posted didn't deal with sexual acts, it dealt with gang culture, and the person who produced it is facing a list of murder charges. And Katy Perry isn't offering rewards to people to rob lady gaga
What's your point? Are you arguing that violence is the most anti-intellectual form of anti-intellectualism? Why are violent lyrics more anti-intellectual than lyrics trivializing sexuality?
 
not only doesnt it make sense its broken logic. Music/movies etc are meaningless to this topic, their impact secondary
Yeah, if art plays a role in institutional racism, it perpetuates it. It does not cause it.
 
As long as the criminal organization known colloquially as the "Democratic" party holds a significant amount of political power there will continually be institutionalized racism in America.

Or at least accusations of it a political advantageous times.
 
"Institutional racism" is, as I understand it, racism that is legitimized by law. When blacks were segregated by law, that was institutionalized racism. The only institutionalized discrimination that still exists is against homosexuals, who up until recently were by law not allowed to serve openly in the military, are still by law unable to marry in most states.

That is not to say that racism itself doesn't exist; it does. But I cannot think of any example of "Institutional racism" that still exists.
 
In the inner cities, you have more than 50% of students dropping out anyhow, mostly because they know that they don't need an education, they're going to spend their lives dealing drugs, having illegitimate children and in prison or on welfare. That's what their parent(s) and their sub-culture teaches them they should do, but it remains their choice and their fault, you can't blame any of it on institutional racism. Nobody forces them to be idiots. They choose that for themselves.

All of the things you list are not causes of that kind of behavior, but consequences of it. Teachers get burned out having to deal with a culture that teaches their children to be disrespectful, that doesn't place a priority on education, etc. You have to place the blame on the people who are actually causing the problem and that's not the schools, it's the students.

For the most part, it's the parents. Secondarily are the schools. Sorry if we don't agree. I don't blame 12-year-olds because they're gang bangers. I blame their parents. They are failures.
 
What's your point? Are you arguing that violence is the most anti-intellectual form of anti-intellectualism?

I explained my point. That while all forms of commercial music are largely anti-intellectual, what we see in commercial rap far exceeds what we see in other genre's of music.


Why are violent lyrics more anti-intellectual than lyrics trivializing sexuality?

It goes far beyond merely violent lyrics. The musicians are often involved in major drug distribution busts, murder investigations, and a high degree of involvement with street gangs. This is why you have rival musicians shooting each other and ordering physical attacks and robbery, etc.

If you want to equivocate that with sexualized lyrics and sexist imagery be my guest, but you'll come off as rather silly
 
By this definition yes, it most certainly does
A form of racial inequality resulting not from conscious discrimination, but from the cumulative effect of subconscious racism and/or from the aggregate inertial discriminatory effect of individuals within a non-diverse group favoring like-minded individuals.

Essentially what this is saying is you are promoting racism if all your friends are white, all your business partners are white, all your neighbors are white. However, the opposite is true. if you were to make a conscience effort to include people because of their race, if you show favoritism toward them in doing business, in making relationships, in intergrating communities, than you, the one making the conscience effort are the one practicing racism, purposefully and without regret.

Condemning a group for not mixing races because they have no desire to, notice, having no desire isn't the same as purposeful exclusion, makes those doing the condemnation the racists, not those who are carrying on in their lives as they choose.

I think it is obvious that the exact opposite is true. If you are including individuals by singling out their racial attributes than you are the racist not the ones who are " individuals within a non-diverse group favoring like-minded individuals"
 
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Anti-intellectual: that which is opposed to or antithetical to the use of one's intellect

*rough definition, but it should get the point across

I don't know... not sure if there is any music, no matter how commercial or trivial, that actively recommends you not to use your intellect (correct me if I'm wrong).

On the other side, even very sophisticated music can be enjoyed on a non-intellectual level (you can like and love classic music and good jazz, yet not know much about it... that's what I do most of the time when I listen to that kind of music ;) ). Sure, a lot of clasical music and a good part of jazz offer more than just that, unlike generic commercial music, so you can study it deeply and yet find new interesting twists in it amateurs don't recognize. But you don't need to be an expert to love Mozart.

And then, when jazz music was new, there was a huge outcry by lovers and experts of classical music. I remember having read that one very famous professor and critic for classical music said "it's not music, it's vulgar noise, the sound of uncivilized sexual passions" and "negro music" or something to that extent. There was a similar outcry in the establishment when certain classical music was new, like when ... was it Mendelssohn? made the shift from classicism to romanticism, or when Wagner came up with his pompous operas. Now they're considered titans of classical music, and jazz a sophisticated style. Probably it always takes a generation that grew up with a new style to get old, before a new style is generally accepted.
 
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