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When will the Dollar Collapse ?

When will the US Dollar Collpase?


  • Total voters
    39
  • Poll closed .
Re: When will the Dollar Collpapse ?

You may want to do a little more research on this topic.

No, that would be you. Oil's price rises or falls as the value of the dollar on the world's markets varies, not the other way around...
 
Re: When will the Dollar Collpapse ?

1 u.s. dollar before 1913..value $1.08

1 u.s. dollar today...........value 0.03

As compared to what? What would a personal computer have cost in 1913? What would a washer and dryer have cost in 1913? You're attempting to make comparisons that are non-existent...
 
Re: When will the Dollar Collpapse ?

The dollar. Next...

I guess in a way you're correct. But you have to affix it's value to something. As such, the value of the U.S. dollar has been closely affixed to oil since it is the one commodity countries seek as a primary energy source. And as long as the price of oil remains high, so shall the value of the U.S. dollar.
 
Re: When will the Dollar Collpapse ?

I guess in a way you're correct. But you have to affix it's value to something. As such, the value of the U.S. dollar has been closely affixed to oil since it is the one commodity countries seek as a primary energy source. And as long as the price of oil remains high, so shall the value of the U.S. dollar.

The dollar's value is solely dependent on the amount in circulation versus the productive output of our economy. Oil's value is tied to the dollar, not the other way around...
 
Re: When will the Dollar Collpapse ?

I would say it is you who refuses to "understand the point."

If people can continue to feed themselves and family, if they have shelter and if they pay for these with paper money - said paper has value. Your response is that of the stereotypical goldbug who refuses to accept the reality that is shown to us by history and by the present day economy.

When in American history have citizens refused to accept paper currency when selling something?

After the war of northern aggression, Confederate dollars were considered worthless, and nobody would trade for them. Today, a Confederate dollar bill, backed by a defunct government is worth more than a USA dollar bill. As a collectors item, of course. Who knew! :)
 
Re: When will the Dollar Collpapse ?

After the war of northern aggression, Confederate dollars were considered worthless, and nobody would trade for them. Today, a Confederate dollar bill, backed by a defunct government is worth more than a USA dollar bill. As a collectors item, of course. Who knew! :)


Why was Confederate money worthless in 1866? Because there was no government that supported the statement printed on the bills.

Many items that were thought to be worthless at the moment of their creation, have gained value owing to their present day rarity - and societal needs, that is, certain folks today revere the past and see a crumpled bit of paper or a bit of stone or plastic as a concrete item of memory and are willing to pay for such objects.

For instance: Apple-1 Computer Fetches $671,000 At Auction : All Tech Considered : NPR
 
Re: When will the Dollar Collpapse ?

Why was Confederate money worthless in 1866? Because there was no government that supported the statement printed on the bills.

Many items that were thought to be worthless at the moment of their creation, have gained value owing to their present day rarity - and societal needs, that is, certain folks today revere the past and see a crumpled bit of paper or a bit of stone or plastic as a concrete item of memory and are willing to pay for such objects.

For instance: Apple-1 Computer Fetches $671,000 At Auction : All Tech Considered : NPR

And do YOU think the US government would survive the collapse of the dollar?

Let's speculate. Federal employees will continue to report to offices without a salary? Incredible!
Rich politicians will love power more than money, so remain in Washington to face mobs of angry folks demanding their benefits? Incredible.
Need I go on?
(no smiley. Nothing FUNNY in this)
 
Re: When will the Dollar Collpapse ?

Right now the only thing keeping the dollar and our bonds relevant is the shape of other International economies relative to our own.

As one economist said, we're the best looking horse in the glue factory.

China's currency is so overvalued, they have to buy our debt and Japan's on their umpteenth round of stupid, " stimulus" in a attempt to crash their currency.

It's a fantastic place, this world, after 5 years of Obama.....
 
Re: When will the Dollar Collpapse ?

Well by the looks of it - at least 25 people are going to be caught with their pants down - or you could say 70% of America too.



Right now the only thing keeping the dollar and our bonds relevant is the shape of other International economies relative to our own.

As one economist said, we're the best looking horse in the glue factory.

China's currency is so overvalued, they have to buy our debt and Japan's on their umpteenth round of stupid, " stimulus" in a attempt to crash their currency.

It's a fantastic place, this world, after 5 years of Obama.....
 
Re: When will the Dollar Collpapse ?

As compared to what? What would a personal computer have cost in 1913? What would a washer and dryer have cost in 1913? You're attempting to make comparisons that are non-existent...

compare the power of your money,

as of 2008 it took $21.57 to equal a 1913 dollar.

today I believe the figure is $22.45,
 
Re: When will the Dollar Collpapse ?

And do YOU think the US government would survive the collapse of the dollar?

Let's speculate. Federal employees will continue to report to offices without a salary? Incredible!
Rich politicians will love power more than money, so remain in Washington to face mobs of angry folks demanding their benefits? Incredible.
Need I go on?
(no smiley. Nothing FUNNY in this)

Some bad logic being used here - first you cite the fact that Confederate money became worthless by 1866 following the collapse of the Confederate government but second, you ask "do YOU think the US government would survive the collapse of the dollar?" See the difference in what you are saying/asking?
 
Re: When will the Dollar Collpapse ?

Some bad logic being used here - first you cite the fact that Confederate money became worthless by 1866 following the collapse of the Confederate government but second, you ask "do YOU think the US government would survive the collapse of the dollar?" See the difference in what you are saying/asking?

First off, I was ANSWERING a question, when was the last time folks in USA refused to accept paper money.

And I wasn't comparing the two events (US dollar collapse and Conferacy dollar collapse) or drawing parallels between USA and Conferacy.

I WAS asking a legitimate question.

Do you think the federal government would SURVIVE collapse of the dollar.

If you believe it would, I'd ask by what mechanism.
The feds engine is fueled by money. No gas, no GO! :)
 
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Re: When will the Dollar Collpapse ?

you and I are not on the same track.

what did i state in my opening?.................gold is not worthless.

it never has and never will be..........so my statement goes to those who keep on trying to down play gold as nothing, and that it cant be used for protection if times of upheaval and unrest.

it can, and those who have some, will be able to rest a little easier them those who don't.

When has a country gone from paper currency back to using gold for purchases? You still haven't given me an example.

I never said gold is worthless I said its grossly overvalued, iron is not worthless but if people started stockpiling it in preparation for the end of the dollar so they could trade things for it, thus driving up the cost, I'd say it was grossly overpriced too.

Anyway, do you still not have an example of a time when a society reverted back to gold use after their currency fell apart? Keep looking, you will NOT find in throughout all of history.
 
Re: When will the Dollar Collpapse ?

When has a country gone from paper currency back to using gold for purchases? You still haven't given me an example.

I never said gold is worthless I said its grossly overvalued, iron is not worthless but if people started stockpiling it in preparation for the end of the dollar so they could trade things for it, thus driving up the cost, I'd say it was grossly overpriced too.

Anyway, do you still not have an example of a time when a society reverted back to gold use after their currency fell apart? Keep looking, you will NOT find in throughout all of history.
How about in the last days of and after the Confederacy. Confederate dollars were worthless. Almost the ONLY acceptable medium of exchange was Mexican silver dollars. Yeah,yeah, silver isn't gold. :)

But riddle me this?

Why did seafarers upto about 100 years ago, wear at least one gold earing?


I'll save you the mental anguish. It was to pay for a Christian burial whatever shore their corpse washed upon. :)
 
Re: When will the Dollar Collpapse ?

How about in the last days of and after the Confederacy. Confederate dollars were worthless. Almost the ONLY acceptable medium of exchange was Mexican silver dollars. Yeah,yeah, silver isn't gold. :)

But riddle me this?

Why did seafarers upto about 100 years ago, wear at least one gold earing?


I'll save you the mental anguish. It was to pay for a Christian burial whatever shore their corpse washed upon. :)

That's not a bad example, but I think it also had to do with the fact that the peso was a stable currency at the time and because it was the currency of another nation the silver in the coinage was already divided for use as a currency which made things a lot easier. For example instead of having to use some scales to weigh pure silver to determine its weight and therefore value, they already had denominations stamped onto them.

What I think its far more likely if the US dollar were to lose all its value is that the people will find some other currency to use instead, perhaps the Canadian dollar or Mexican peso, or even the Pound Sterling or Euro. That is what history shows us happens when a society loses all faith in its currency, they adopt the currency of a nearby country or of a country who's currency can't be questioned. Of course who's to say exactly what would happen to the world economy if the dollar loses all value and to other world currencies.

As for seafarers, they have lots of traditions, some silly and some not so silly. But again I've never said gold does not have value, only that its grossly overvalued.
 
Re: When will the Dollar Collpapse ?

Anyway, do you still not have an example of a time when a society reverted back to gold use after their currency fell apart?
You keep asking this as if you don't see that it proves the opposite of your point. I gave you an example of a time when people gradually tried to switch from fiat to gold. They were forcibly prevented from doing so by their government, and imprisoned if they failed to hand over their gold. Fiat currency survived in that case by banning gold. It wasn't even the first time, it was just the most recent example.
 
Re: When will the Dollar Collpapse ?

You keep asking this as if you don't see that it proves the opposite of your point. I gave you an example of a time when people gradually tried to switch from fiat to gold. They were forcibly prevented from doing so by their government, and imprisoned if they failed to hand over their gold. Fiat currency survived in that case by banning gold. It wasn't even the first time, it was just the most recent example.

In the 1930s we were still on the gold standard, which is why the government had to seize that gold since without it they couldn't back their currency. That is not fiat currency, that is the gold standard. Fiat currency is when the currency itself has no value as a phsyical thing and is not redeemable for something like gold, it has value because the government passed a law that says it has value.

If we had not been on the gold standard the government would not have had any area to seize that gold since the value of its currency would not have been dependant on its own gold supply.
 
Re: When will the Dollar Collpapse ?

In the 1930s we were still on the gold standard, which is why the government had to seize that gold since without it they couldn't back their currency. That is not fiat currency, that is the gold standard. Fiat currency is when the currency itself has no value as a phsyical thing and is not redeemable for something like gold, it has value because the government passed a law that says it has value.

If we had not been on the gold standard the government would not have had any area to seize that gold since the value of its currency would not have been dependant on its own gold supply.

You're right that it wasn't a fiat currency at the time the ban started, but it became a fiat currency long before it finished which kind of moots your point....... in fact that entire argument falls apart when you realize that even as recently as last year your government was continuing to restrict gold ownership and come out with proposals that mimic the ban from the 30's.
 
Re: When will the Dollar Collpapse ?

It will not collapse in the foreseeable future, it will just keep dwindling.

But with time - perhaps already by the time of the next meltdown- a devaluation may become increasingly tempting for policy makers, especially if "influential economists" keep presenting it as good way to climb out of crisis (Why Not The Worst? - NYTimes.com), even though the same economists used to claim exactly the opposite (http://18.7.29.232/bitstream/handle/1721.1/63401/contractionaryef00krug.pdf?sequence=1
 
Re: When will the Dollar Collpapse ?

"Modern peso and dollar currencies have a common origin in the 15th–19th century Spanish dollar, most continuing to use its sign, "$".[1] The Mexican peso is the 13th most traded currency in the world, the third most traded in the Americas, and the most traded currency in Latin America.[2] The current ISO 4217 code for the peso is MXN; prior to the 1993 revaluation (see below), the code MXP was used. The peso is subdivided into 100 centavos, represented by "¢". "


"The Spanish dollar or Mexican peso was widely used in the early United States. By a decree of July 6, 1785, the value of the United States dollar was set to approximately match the Spanish dollar, both of which were based on the weight of silver in the coins.[3] The first U.S. dollar coins were not issued until April 2, 1792, and the peso continued to be officially recognized and used, along with other foreign coins, until February 21, 1857. In Canada, it remained legal tender, along with other foreign silver coins, until 1854 and continued to circulate beyond that date. [2] The Mexican peso also served as the model for the Straits dollar (now the Singapore/Brunei Dollar), the Hong Kong dollar, the Japanese yen and the Chinese yuan. [3] The term Chinese yuan refers to the round Spanish dollars, Mexican pesos and other 8 reales silver coins which saw use in China during the 19th and 20th century. The Mexican peso was also briefly legal tender in 19th century Siam, when government mints were unable to accommodate a sudden influx of foreign traders, and was exchanged at a rate of three pesos to one Thai baht."

Mexican peso - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


The Confederate dollar, often called a "Greyback", was first issued into circulation in April 1861, when the Confederacy was only two months old, and on the eve of the outbreak of the Civil War.

At first, Confederate currency was accepted throughout the South as a medium of exchange with high purchasing power. As the war progressed, however, confidence in the ultimate success waned, the amount of paper money increased, and their dates of redemption were extended further into the future. Most Confederate currency carried the phrase across the top of the bill: "TWO YEARS AFTER THE RATIFICATION OF A TREATY OF PEACE BETWEEN THE CONFEDERATE STATES AND THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA" then across the middle, the "CONFEDERATE STATES OF AMERICA will pay" [the amount of the bill] "to BEARER." As the war progressed, the currency underwent the depreciation and soaring prices characteristic of inflation. For example, by the end of the war, a cake of soap could sell for as much as $50 and an ordinary suit of clothes was $2,700.[citation needed]

Near the end of the war, the currency became practically worthless as a medium of exchange. This was because Confederate currency were bills of credit, as in the Revolutionary War, not secured or backed by any assets. Just as the currency issued by the Continental Congress was deemed worthless (witness the phrase "not worth a Continental;" and see The Federalist Papers, which also addressed this issue in the run-up to the ratification of the U.S. Constitution) because they were not backed by any hard assets, so, too, this became the case with Confederate currency.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Confederate_money
 
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Re: When will the Dollar Collpapse ?

I never said gold is worthless I said its grossly overvalued, iron is not worthless but if people started stockpiling it in preparation for the end of the dollar so they could trade things for it, thus driving up the cost, I'd say it was grossly overpriced too.

Originally Posted by Wiseone View Post #84
See that's the issue with this idea, preppers like to keep gold on hand because they think people will want trade things like ammo, food, water, etc for it. Problem is that the gold has no inherent function that is useful, and therefore its worthless. It would be no different than a dollar bill, except maybe you could wipe your ass with a dollar bill if you needed to.

Do you not see the problem when you and everyone else has the same idea that they'll trade gold for things they'll need? That everyone will have gold and no one will want more of it.


you didn't say it was worthless?
 
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