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When will the Dollar Collapse ?

When will the US Dollar Collpase?

  • Total voters
    39
  • Poll closed .
Re: When will the Dollar Collpapse ?

HumanBeing said:
When the dollar begins to collapse, private ownership of gold will become illegal again. It's a standard futile attempt at state directed economic manipulation that has been repeated throughout history in many nations, including the US.

"When people realize their metal is worth more than our paper, we'll just make a new law that says they have to trade their metal for our paper, and throw them in prison if they don't go along with it. That will solve everything!"
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and you got this insight from a fortune cookie or a crystal ball?
 
Re: When will the Dollar Collpapse ?

justabubba said:
and you got this insight from a fortune cookie or a crystal ball?
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Nope, history, ancient to modern. Last one I'm aware of was during the great depression when the US made private gold ownership illegal, stripping gold owners of roughly 40% of their wealth or forcing them to face imprisonment if they didn't comply. It kind of worked in the very short term, it greatly increased the value of the dollar, but at the expense of people who had worked hard and saved hard and been smart enough not to keep all their wealth tied up in bits of worthless paper.

Interestingly, they opted not to legalize gold ownership again until some four decades later. Clearly they milked their monopolization of precious metal ownership for all they could, again, at the expense of those who had been more responsible with their wealth to begin with.

It should not be the place of government to tell you what kind of metal you can or can't own. It is fiscal oppression.
 
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Re: When will the Dollar Collpapse ?

justabubba said:
if that were true then you would buy gold with your dollars as a hedge
but you insist you do not
so, it appears you do not follow your own advice to hold gold instead of dollars
there is an expression for those who say one thing and do another
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You aren't trying to read my posts. You are TRYING to pick a fight. It's ok pal. Go take your meds and calm down. :)
 
Re: When will the Dollar Collpapse ?

yobarnacle said:
You aren't trying to read my posts. You are TRYING to pick a fight. It's ok pal. Go take your meds and calm down. :)
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Don't worry dude. The other guy simply doesn't understand that if you traded all your dollars for gold, the first thing that would happen in an economic meltdown is that the government would force you to trade all your gold for its worthless paper at massively unfair arbitrary rates. Maybe if you lend him a history book he might get the concept after a while.
 
Re: When will the Dollar Collpapse ?

yobarnacle said:
You aren't trying to read my posts. You are TRYING to pick a fight. It's ok pal. Go take your meds
and calm down. :)
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i read your posts
and have found that your actions are inconsistent with your stated beliefs
you would want to be paid in gold yet you refuse to exchange your dollars received in wages for gold
you say one thing and do another
 
Re: When will the Dollar Collpapse ?

justabubba said:
i read your posts
and have found that your actions are inconsistent with your stated beliefs
you would want to be paid in gold yet you refuse to exchange your dollars received in wages for gold
you say one thing and do another
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Do you know what REAL wealth is?
do you know what fiat money is?
Do you know what real estate is?

anxious for your affirmations. :)
 
Re: When will the Dollar Collpapse ?

yobarnacle said:
Do you know what REAL wealth is?
do you know what fiat money is?
Do you know what real estate is?

anxious for your affirmations. :)
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fortunately, i know what bull **** is
 
Re: When will the Dollar Collpapse ?

justabubba said:
fortunately, i know what bull **** is
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You didn't respond to my point. Last time people traded all their dollars for gold, the government forced them to trade it back at a 40% loss or face imprisonment. Knowing that, why would anyone in their right mind think that buying up gold prior to a dollar collapse would be a good idea? Even if they prefer gold, the government will just take it back by force if their worthless paper gets called out for the nonsense it truly is.

You said that there is nothing stopping people from just turning their dollars into gold, and I'm giving you a very legitimate example of something that is stopping people.

You don't seem to understand how government manipulation affects supposedly free markets.
 
Re: When will the Dollar Collpapse ?

I think Justabubba was bored and trolling, and got discouraged when neither of us would insult him. :)
 
Re: When will the Dollar Collpapse ?

HumanBeing said:
You didn't respond to my point. Last time people traded all their dollars for gold, the government forced them to trade it back at a 40% loss or face imprisonment. Knowing that, why would anyone in their right mind think that buying up gold prior to a dollar collapse would be a good idea? Even if they prefer gold, the government will just take it back by force if their worthless paper gets called out for the nonsense it truly is.

You said that there is nothing stopping people from just turning their dollars into gold, and I'm giving you a very legitimate example of something that is stopping people.

You don't seem to understand how government manipulation affects supposedly free markets.
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I don't buy gold, I mine it! or actually prospect for it.
:)

I don't plan to sell it. It's for the future.
 
Re: When will the Dollar Collpapse ?

yobarnacle said:
I don't buy gold, I mine it! or actually prospect for it.
:)

I don't plan to sell it. It's for the future.
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Protip: Hide it and don't tell anyone it exists, especially the government :D
 
Re: When will the Dollar Collpapse ?

HumanBeing said:
Protip: Hide it and don't tell anyone it exists, especially the government :D
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exactly.
it's just a hobby. Fits in with my hunting and fishing. No bonanzas! :)
 
Re: When will the Dollar Collpapse ?

Lachean said:
Things are trending badly, but its not like we've hit a point of no return. If the dollar tanks, I believe it'll be because the entire global economy tanks.

Gold is my canary in the dollar coalmine, if it hit $2500/ounce tomorrow I would say the dollar is dead within a year. But the recent hit it took suggests to me that we are regaining confidence in the dollar.
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I never understood the gold bug craze. Ok suppose the dollar collapses, why do you think the price of gold won't collapse with it? Because the demand for gold will be sky high? Why would it be if the dollar just collapsed, if people's life savings and other financial assests were just destroyed why would they want to buy gold and not basic living requirements? And when you do decide to sell your gold, what are you going to exchange it for? Dollars? You mean the currency that just collapsed and lost all its value? Damn...
 
Re: When will the Dollar Collpapse ?

Wiseone said:
I never understood the gold bug craze. Ok suppose the dollar collapses, why do you think the price of gold won't collapse with it? Because the demand for gold will be sky high? Why would it be if the dollar just collapsed, if people's life savings and other financial assests were just destroyed why would they want to buy gold and not basic living requirements? And when you do decide to sell your gold, what are you going to exchange it for? Dollars? You mean the currency that just collapsed and lost all its value? Damn...
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I don't buy gold. Actually, I buy nose pumps, and hot dog carts, and rent them out. :)
Gold prospecting is a hobby I pursue when I'm out hunting or fishing, I'm in the field anyway, so, carrying a pan isn't heavy. I even cook in it, and as long as I blacken it again, all is well. :)

What would I trade the gold for if the dollar collapsed? Probably AMMO!
 
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Re: When will the Dollar Collpapse ?

yobarnacle said:
...What would I trade the gold for if the dollar collapsed? Probably AMMO!
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That, and don't forget toilet paper!
 
Re: When will the Dollar Collpapse ?

Wiseone said:
I never understood the gold bug craze. Ok suppose the dollar collapses, why do you think the price of gold won't collapse with it? Because the demand for gold will be sky high?
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No, people will still agree it has value, as it always has. Its a commidity that doesn't increase or decrease in value, only the currencies it is valued in do. When the dollar goes down the value of gold goes up, just like the cost of a barrel of oil.

Wiseone said:
Why would it be if the dollar just collapsed, if people's life savings and other financial assests were just destroyed why would they want to buy gold and not basic living requirements?
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I'm a prepper, I have all the basic and advanced living requirements I need. I could wake up the last man alive tomorrow and live a long life.

In fact that is pretty much why I'm looking for some remote property in the mountains.

Wiseone said:
And when you do decide to sell your gold, what are you going to exchange it for? Dollars? You mean the currency that just collapsed and lost all its value? Damn...
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I would probably exchange it for ammunition, vice or property. Why would I want dollars? You're right you really don't get gold. Its fine, you don't need it. Most people don't, nor do I recommend it as a primary investment or wealth shelter.

If the dollar collapsed tomorrow, you wouldn't need gold to barter with if you had a few cases of alcohol, or boxes of bullets to trade. Having some of all of the things people would want/use/trade would be great too. Gold is just easier to carry and trade large amounts of value.

Besides, a barter system would be temporary anyways.
 
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Re: When will the Dollar Collpapse ?

HumanBeing said:
You didn't respond to my point. Last time people traded all their dollars for gold, the government forced them to trade it back at a 40% loss or face imprisonment. Knowing that, why would anyone in their right mind think that buying up gold prior to a dollar collapse would be a good idea? Even if they prefer gold, the government will just take it back by force if their worthless paper gets called out for the nonsense it truly is.

You said that there is nothing stopping people from just turning their dollars into gold, and I'm giving you a very legitimate example of something that is stopping people.

You don't seem to understand how government manipulation affects supposedly free markets.
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To "understand how government manipulation affects supposedly free markets", one needs to know actual facts and not 'beliefs', as 'beliefs' may be used to produce any desired answer - facts on the other hand sometimes disappoint the True Believer.

Where did you get the 40% figure?

Here are a few facts:
Gold Standard: The Concise Encyclopedia of Economics | Library of Economics and Liberty
The United States, though formally on a bimetallic (gold and silver) standard, switched to gold de facto in 1834 and de jure in 1900 when Congress passed the Gold Standard Act. In 1834, the United States fixed the price of gold at $20.67 per ounce, where it remained until 1933.
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FDR takes United States off gold standard — History.com This Day in History — 6/5/1933
On April 5, 1933, Roosevelt ordered all gold coins and gold certificates in denominations of more than $100 turned in for other money. It required all persons to deliver all gold coin, gold bullion and gold certificates owned by them to the Federal Reserve by May 1 for the set price of $20.67 per ounce.
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In 1931, you could have bought an ounce of gold for $17.06, in 1932, the average price was $20.69 and in 1932, the price was up to $26.33. That last figure would be the price for the entire year and probably reflects a surge when the news of the change from the gold standard got out to the public. The 1934 price of $34.69 was the benchmark until 1971

Americans never traded "ALL their dollars for gold". There were goldbugs back then, just as there are now, but the majority of Americans did not hold large quantities of gold bullion or coins.

Yay, Wikipedia! I think I found the source of your 40% claim. But it does show a rather serious misunderstanding in regards to something called the calender: Americans were required to turn in their gold coins, bullion and certificates in 1933, the devaluation of the dollar when the price of gold was raised to $35/oz occurred in 1934 - AFTER Americans were supposed to have turned in their gold.
Foreigners also had gold confiscated, and were forced to accept paper money for their gold. The Uebersee Finanz-Korporation, a Swiss banking company, had $1,250,000 in gold coins for business use. The Uebersee Finanz-Korporation entrusted the gold to an American firm for safekeeping. The Swiss were shocked to find that their gold was confiscated. The Swiss made appeals, but those appeals were denied. The Swiss were entitled to paper money – but not their gold. Unfortunately, after the gold was seized, there was a 1934 overnight devaluation of the dollar from $20.67 per ounce to $35 per ounce. The Swiss company lost 40% of their gold's value.
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Did the Swiss firm lose 40% of their gold's value? It depends on what they were paid as a result of the court decision. At $20.67/oz, the total weight of the gold coins would have been approximately 60,474.117. If they were paid $35/oz, they would have received $2,116.594. Of course that was ONLY in worthless fiat paper money so they wouldn't have been able to purchase anything with it. :roll:
 
Re: When will the Dollar Collpapse ?

Somerville said:
Of course that was ONLY in worthless fiat paper money so they wouldn't have been able to purchase anything with it. :roll:
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You answered my entire point with your last sentence. They could claim they are giving you a million times the value, but it's just paper. If it really had anything like the same value, there would be no need to throw people in jail for not trading voluntarily. As it is, the 40% figure is commonly quoted by every single source I've read on the subject (a quick google shows several).

Regardless of whether they give you a hundred pieces of paper for an ounce of gold, or a million pieces of paper for the same thing, the fact will remain: gold doesn't grow on trees, so they won't let you have it.
 
Re: When will the Dollar Collpapse ?

HumanBeing said:
You answered my entire point with your last sentence. They could claim they are giving you a million times the value, but it's just paper. If it really had anything like the same value, there would be no need to throw people in jail for not trading voluntarily. As it is, the 40% figure is commonly quoted by every single source I've read on the subject (a quick google shows several).

Regardless of whether they give you a hundred pieces of paper for an ounce of gold, or a million pieces of paper for the same thing, the fact will remain: gold doesn't grow on trees, so they won't let you have it.
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Sorry, you really aren't grasping reality. Were prices for basic goods lower in 1934 than in 1929? Were they the same? The point being, if a seller will take the paper money and provide a product, the paper money is not worthless. If you can buy more product in one year with X dollars than you could the year before - are you worse off?

Please note the 'Roll eyes" gif is a sarcasm indicator.
 
Re: When will the Dollar Collpapse ?

Lachean said:
No, people will still agree it has value, as it always has. Its a commidity that doesn't increase or decrease in value, only the currencies it is valued in do. When the dollar goes down the value of gold goes up, just like the cost of a barrel of oil.

I'm a prepper, I have all the basic and advanced living requirements I need. I could wake up the last man alive tomorrow and live a long life.

In fact that is pretty much why I'm looking for some remote property in the mountains.

I would probably exchange it for ammunition, vice or property. Why would I want dollars? You're right you really don't get gold. Its fine, you don't need it. Most people don't, nor do I recommend it as a primary investment or wealth shelter.

If the dollar collapsed tomorrow, you wouldn't need gold to barter with if you had a few cases of alcohol, or boxes of bullets to trade. Having some of all of the things people would want/use/trade would be great too. Gold is just easier to carry and trade large amounts of value.

Besides, a barter system would be temporary anyways.
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Gold is a commodity like anything else, and it has a supply and a demand that affect its price, its not immune to market forces. Supposing you were in a situation where you had to trade to survive, why would I give up valueable ammo for a heavy metal that serves no purpose at all? It only has value if people think it has value, that's the same for any commodity. Oil is likewise affected by supply and demand, not just the pice of the dollar.

Also while gold and the value of the dollar are often seen as inverses of each other, that's not always the case
Buttonwood: Something doesn't fit | The Economist
 
Re: When will the Dollar Collpapse ?

Gold holds value because, even in the worst depressions, there are still fantastically wealthy people, and they tend to like stuff made out of gold.
 
Re: When will the Dollar Collpapse ?

Wiseone said:
Gold is a commodity like anything else, and it has a supply and a demand that affect its price, its not immune to market forces. Supposing you were in a situation where you had to trade to survive, why would I give up valueable ammo for a heavy metal that serves no purpose at all? It only has value if people think it has value, that's the same for any commodity. Oil is likewise affected by supply and demand, not just the pice of the dollar.

Also while gold and the value of the dollar are often seen as inverses of each other, that's not always the case
Buttonwood: Something doesn't fit | The Economist
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No disagreement with your point on market prices, but as for why would you trade ammunition? Precisely for the reason you inadvertantly stated, because they will be "valuable." I wasn't suggesting bartering ammo for gold, that would more often be done the other way around I suspect.

I was thinking more along the lines of food or water for a few rounds, since a single 5 cent 22LR can mean one to several meals if you find a rabbit or other varmint, even small game and fur.
 
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