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If Obama knew....

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Josie said:
If Obama knew what the IRS was doing to conservative groups and allowed it to occur, would you support going forward with impeachment?
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I don't care much for the way you worded your NO answer. It would be unwise to go for impeachment, since it would not succeed. I would rather have Democrat appointees removed from office and the Democratic big govt platform exposed for the corrupt POS it is. The Tea Party has been saying this for years, and this provides the proof of it. I think the hearings should search for the highest official possible short of Obama himself. Imagine the press's response to the Republicans trying to impeach a black man. I would like to see Eric Holder frog-marched out of the justice dept though.
 
Josie said:
If Obama knew what the IRS was doing to conservative groups and allowed it to occur, would you support going forward with impeachment?
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IF he knew - which is still a big if at this point - then yes.
 
TheDemSocialist said:
I dont get how this is so hard for you to understand. I claimed that they targetted progressive and liberal groups. You claimed that is false. I then proved they did. 3, 4, 7, 2 whatever number they still targeted them therefor its not false. :2wave:
Tea Party Group Screams IRS Persecution, But Judge Ruled They Illegally Aided the GOP in 2012

But im glad the IRS is doing its job i think they should target all 501 (c)(4) groups. Because its clear they break the law.
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Three groups would be picked up in the normal course of activity by random selection. There's no targeting there. To get 97, you have to target. That's the difference.:cool:
 
I still don't see anything wrong with what the IRS did.
It is only logical that if you are looking for tax cheats, you should give scrutiny to the organizations that promote not paying taxes.
They were doing their job.
 
Buck Ewer said:
I still don't see anything wrong with what the IRS did.
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Either you don't have all the details or you're so far up this admin's ass that you can't see straight.
 
NIMBY said:
There are 47 Repubs Pero. Still hungover? And McCain will not vote against Obama if politico's story from today is true.
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Actually we are both wrong, 45 Republicans, 53 Democrats and 2 independents, Sanders and King. These later two should be counted as Democrats because they caucus and vote the Democratic line. Last year there were 47 Republicans.

But never the less, I think it would take a whole bunch of there being there and I am not sure if it is just one scandal and the president even ordered it, that would be enough to impeach him. I think it would take a series of things, wrong doings along this scale.
 
Josie said:
Either you don't have all the details or you're so far up this admin's ass that you can't see straight.
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They gave greater scrutiny as to tax status to a group who's name comes from Taxed Enough Already.
What better place to look??
 
Buck Ewer said:
They gave greater scrutiny as to tax status to a group who's name comes from Taxed Enough Already.
What better place to look??
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so it is your learned opinion that such scrutiny is justified

or that this was the only conservative group the IRS imposed disparate treatment upon
 
TurtleDude said:
so it is your learned opinion that such scrutiny is justified

or that this was the only conservative group the IRS imposed disparate treatment upon
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The TEA Party would be the best place to start investigations into tax evasion...
...and that's what they did.
 
bubbabgone said:
Why do people request it?
Or to put it another way ... what do you think would happen to you if you declare you are, file your return that way, and then the IRS declares you're not?
And, further, seeing what we've seen so far, what do you think would happen to tea party groups who declare unilaterally they have 501c4 status?
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People request it to affirm the status. Tea party type groups live in the gray area of being political organizations, its best to get an affirmative testament to what they are lest they get re-branded a 527 or other less favorable tax status. The advantage of the 501(c)(4) is that their donor list is private.... but, again, you get to declare the status yourself. The IRS, can, if they see fit, take it away from you, but no prior approval is required.

501(c)4 vs 501(c)3 vs 527
 
Buck Ewer said:
The TEA Party would be the best place to start investigations into tax evasion...
...and that's what they did.
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that's really stupid. Tax evaders don't tend to announce that they are tax evaders
 
Buck Ewer said:
I still don't see anything wrong with what the IRS did.
It is only logical that if you are looking for tax cheats, you should give scrutiny to the organizations that promote not paying taxes.
They were doing their job.
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Well, then there was True the Vote in 2010.

By now you know the IRS has been targeting conservative groups, but one group in particular has been put through hell by the Department of Justice. I've written about True the Vote's efforts to promote fair and clean elections free of voter fraud for more than a year now. The group is based in Houston, Texas and headed by President and Founder Catherine Engelbrecht. True the Vote strongly supports voter identifications laws, which have been proven not only to produce higher voter turn out, but also preserve the intergrity of our elections.

Attorney General Eric Holder, who of course heads the Justice Department, has done everything in his power to prevent voter identification laws from being implemented. As a result, True the Vote has been a top target for Holder and his goons. Holder's DOJ has been tormenting Engelbrecht and her organization since the beginning. Not only has she been bullied by the IRS, but the FBI and ATF too. More from Breitbart:

True the Vote, a Houston-based nonprofit which focuses on election integrity issues, was formed by Catherine Engelbrecht and her King Street Patriots Tea Party group. True the Vote applied to the IRS for their 501(c3) non-profit status in July 2010, and almost immediately their problems began.

Within two years, multiple federal agencies, along with an EPA-affiliated Texas state agency, began auditing True the Vote and its founders, visiting their group, their businesses, and asking questions of people who knew them. The IRS was not the only governmental agency involved.

True the Vote’s experiences with the IRS’s abuse of power were recently discussed by Catherine Engelbrecht in a previous interview with Breitbart News. She said:

We applied for nonprofit C-3 status early in 2010. Since that time the IRS has run us through a gauntlet of analysts and hundreds of questions over and over again. They’ve requested to see each and every tweet I’ve ever tweeted or Facebook post I’ve ever posted. They also asked to know every place I’ve ever spoken since our inception and to whom, and everywhere I intend to speak in the future.

Engelbrecht’s application with the IRS for non-profit status allegedly triggered aggressive audits of one of her family’s personal businesses as well. The FBI (Federal Bureau of Investigation) began a series of inquiries about her and her group; the BATF (Bureau of Alcohol Tobacco and Firearms) began demanding to see her family's firearms in surprise audits of her and her husband’s small gun dealership--which had done less than $200 in sales; OSHA (Occupational Safety Hazards Administration) began a surprise audit of their small family manufacturing business; and the EPA-affiliated TCEQ (Texas Commission on Environment Quality) did a surprise visit and audit due to “a complaint being called in.”

The Democratic Party of Texas filed a lawsuit against her, as did an ACORN affiliated group. Both the FBI and the BATF continued to poke around her life, the lives of people in her Tea Party group, and her businesses.....snip~

http://townhall.com/tipsheet/katiepavlich/2013/05/20/dojs-witch-hunt-against-true-the-vote-n1601527

Then finding nothing wrong plus they owed money to these people. They still carried on with more investigation into anyone connected to them.
 
upsideguy said:
People request it to affirm the status. Tea party type groups live in the gray area of being political organizations, its best to get an affirmative testament to what they are lest they get re-branded a 527 or other less favorable tax status.
The advantage of the 501(c)(4) is that their donor list is private
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.... but, again, you get to declare the status yourself. The IRS, can, if they see fit, take it away from you, but no prior approval is required.

501(c)4 vs 501(c)3 vs 527
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Donor list? DONOR LIST???
You need to pay much closer attention to the news, bunky.

You didn't answer the question ... having seen how they've clearly been targeted, what do you think would happen to tea party groups who declare unilaterally they have 501c4 status and file their returns as such and the IRS subsequently says they're not ?
Under normal circumstances the IRS penalties can be pretty severe ... under Obama's IRS circumstances the penalties would be devastatting.
 
Josie said:
If Obama knew what the IRS was doing to conservative groups and allowed it to occur, would you support going forward with impeachment?
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It's irrelevant whether he knew. The buck stops with him, he bears responsibility whether he knew or not.

Thing is, what happened is a whole lot of nothing. The IRS decided to single out a group of likely tax cheats for extra scrutiny. The method they used was arguable unconstitutional. Hardly an impeachable offense, since it is not a crime. That is not even a scandal.
 
Josie said:
If Obama knew what the IRS was doing to conservative groups and allowed it to occur, would you support going forward with impeachment?
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Before I could answer that I'd have to know what powers the Executive office has in deciding who the IRS investigates. (I honestly don't know).
 
Josie said:
If Obama knew what the IRS was doing to conservative groups and allowed it to occur, would you support going forward with impeachment?
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No because that would send the message that this action was somehow worse than the atrocities and flagrant violations of civil liberties that he has already committed.

Clinton should have been impeached for bombing Yugoslavia, but not for having sex with Lewinsky. Obama should be impeached for the Utah Data Facility but not for this.
 
Cardinal said:
Before I could answer that I'd have to know what powers the Executive office has in deciding who the IRS investigates. (I honestly don't know).
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How is that relevant? It makes no difference whether he had full authority, no authority or something in between. There is nothing criminal going on.
 
Guy Incognito said:
How is that relevant? It makes no difference either way.
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Oh, c'mon. If...if...the President has the power to tell the IRS "only investigate conservative groups," and if that's what happened here, then that's pretty messed up.
 
Cardinal said:
Oh, c'mon. If...if...the President has the power to tell the IRS "only investigate conservative groups," and if that's what happened here, then that's pretty messed up.
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It depends on why. If... If... he did that, or whoever did that, it doesn't matter. They were profiling a certain kind of tax cheat. Maybe that is unconstitutional but it is hardly a scandal.
 
Guy Incognito said:
It depends on why. If... If... he did that, or whoever did that, it doesn't matter. They were profiling a certain kind of tax cheat. Maybe that is unconstitutional but it is hardly a scandal.
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Yes, it matters. Regardless of legality it represents an enormous misuse of authority for the president's own comfort and convenience. Whatever you may think of the tea party, sicking an organization like the IRS on it isn't the way to bring them down. Saying "it doesn't matter" doesn't make it so, and handwaving it as just "profiling a certain kind of tax cheat" doesn't make anyone forget that the president ordered the IRS to investigate groups opposed to his presidency (in this hypothetical scenario).
 
Cardinal said:
Yes, it matters. Regardless of legality it represents an enormous misuse of authority for the president's own comfort and convenience. Whatever you may think of the tea party, sicking an organization like the IRS on it isn't the way to bring them down. Saying "it doesn't matter" doesn't make it so, and handwaving it as just "profiling a certain kind of tax cheat" doesn't make anyone forget that the president ordered the IRS to investigate groups opposed to his presidency (in this hypothetical scenario).
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You are imputing a motive without any evidence. The IRS was going after the tea party because of the high likelihood they were tax cheats. Yes, that is unconstitutional profiling most likely. But that is a far cry from "sickig the IRS onthem to bring them down.". It is simply sicking the IRS on them tools sure they paid their taxes! If they hadn't tried to apply for tax exemptions they didn't actually qualify for then they would have had no problem.

I'm the first one to argue that the method the IRS used was unconstitutional but I would never dream of impugning their motives without hard evidence like you are doing.
 
Perotista said:
Actually we are both wrong, 45 Republicans, 53 Democrats and 2 independents, Sanders and King. These later two should be counted as Democrats because they caucus and vote the Democratic line. Last year there were 47 Republicans.

But never the less, I think it would take a whole bunch of there being there and I am not sure if it is just one scandal and the president even ordered it, that would be enough to impeach him. I think it would take a series of things, wrong doings along this scale.
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Heya Pero.
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Do you think Obama knowing he fired an IG in 2009 for going after a 501 3 C Liberal Education group. Which was then checked into by Congress over Obama releasing the IG and took until the end of 2009. Being in the News over the Involvement of Sacramento Mayor and friend of Obama Kevin Johnson. That he would know what was going on with the DOJ and the IRS from that time into 2010. Wherein the Issue with the Conservative group True the Vote began? That there was a change of direction so to speak?

Some called it Walpin-Gate. Back then.....as Obama's only reason was he had lost confidence into Walpin. The NY Times would eventually cover it. Even tho they didn't want to in the beginning.
 
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