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Question for Libertarians

Is the Libertarian Party a close relative of the GOP in ideology?

  • I'm a Libertarian and the Libertarian Partyand like the GOP is part of conservatism.

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • I'm a Libertarian and there is no commonality between the Liberarian and Republican parties

    Votes: 6 46.2%
  • I'm a Republican and see the Libertairan Party as somewhat similar to the GOP

    Votes: 3 23.1%
  • I'm a Republican and the Liberarian Party and the GOP are like night and day

    Votes: 1 7.7%
  • I'm a Democrat and see the Libertarian Party as somewhat similar to the GOP

    Votes: 2 15.4%
  • I'm a Democrat and see the Libertarian Party as very different than the GOP

    Votes: 1 7.7%

  • Total voters
    13

Smeagol

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On a different thread someone suggested Libertarians should not be lumped together with conservatives. I agree Libertarians are not exactly Republicans but I do tend to think of Libertarians as the half-brothers of Republicans. Congressman Ron Paul and twice Presidential candidate is a Libertarian and according the Wikipedia is a "Lifetime Member" but joined "the next best thing" due to electability issues not being affiliated with a major party. The Libertarian candidate for POTUS, Congressman Bob Barr was a lifelong Republican but ran for President as a Libertarian I assume because they represented his conservative ideology even more than the GOP.

Am I'm mistaken or is the Libertarian Party in the same conservative family as the Republican Party?

Sorry for inadvertently omitting Independents from the poll.
 
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The Republican Party is slightly more libertarian than the Democratic Party, but neither one is nearly as libertarian as the Libertarian Party.
 
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Certain parts of the republican party are quite libertarian.

Republicans in western states like Montana are small government, and I expect, do not want the government to force socially conservative ideals on the general public. Other aspects maybe fiscally conservative but want the government to enforce socially conservative ideals.


The democratic party can not match the Montana type libertarians of the Republican party
 
Assume your poll has an "I am an independent who thinks Libertarians as a party are a bunch of southern Civil War buffs who don't want to be called racists, kooks, and young conservatives who do not want to have to pay back their student loans" and I checked that box.
 
Someone who is moderately libertarian can lean a little to the left or a little to the right, but someone who is very libertarian is very close to the middle of the left/right spectrum, and that's where the Libertarian Party is.
 
Assume your poll has an "I am an independent who thinks Libertarians as a party are a bunch of southern Civil War buffs who don't want to be called racists, kooks, and young conservatives who do not want to have to pay back their student loans" and I checked that box.

Nah, I think most people who call themselves "Libertarian" seem to think it's just a cooler sounding synonym for "Republican."

You can tell when they come out on social issues. Libertarians tend to be socially liberal.
 
On a different thread someone suggested Libertarians should not be lumped together with conservatives. I agree Libertarians are not exactly Republicans but I do tend to think of Libertarians as the half-brothers of Republicans. Congressman Ron Paul and twice Presidential candidate is a Libertarian and according the Wikipedia is a "Lifetime Member" but joined "the next best thing" due to electability issues not being affiliated with a major party. The Libertarian candidate for POTUS, Congressman Bob Barr was a lifelong Republican but ran for President as a Libertarian I assume because they represented his conservative ideology even more than the GOP.

Am I'm mistaken or is the Libertarian Party in the same conservative family as the Republican Party?

Sorry for inadvertently omitting Independents from the poll.

Officially libertarians are fiscally conservative and socially liberal. Republicans are "fiscally conservative" (or claim to be), while remaining socially conservative as well. As long as they remain socially conservative they can never be similar to libertarians. That'd be like saying "Oh yeah, we totally see eye to eye, except for most of our beliefs."

Not to mention the Republican party has become a big government, corporate handouts party. Top that off with their war-mongering, I don't see how anybody can even remotely compare republicans and libertarians.
 
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RepublicansLibertarians
WarYes Please!Only for defense.
SSMGod hates fagsAll citizens are equal
Drug warI like freedom as long as it aligns with my jesus values.It's not the government's place to control your body.
Civil rightsCan be revoked for safetyShould never be revoked for any reason
Foreign PolicyAmerica is superior and special. Do what we say or we attack.We should treat others as we wish to be treated.
ImmigrationClose the borders.Freedom of movement is one of the most basic human rights.


The list could go on for a while. These two parties are not even remotely similar. The issue has been that too many republicans disgusted with their party decide to change the political lean dropdown box to "libertarian", without changing their beliefs.
 
Am I'm mistaken or is the Libertarian Party in the same conservative family as the Republican Party?.

Libertarian Party is on the radical fringe of the libertarian/classical liberal field. Their last nominee, Gary Johnson, was unusually pragmatic and unusually accomplished (popular governor of New Mexico with excellent record), and I had voted for him with pleasure. But the core of LP is still the disorderly crowd of Ayn Rand-quoting infantile daydreamers.

When a libertarian decides to participate in practical politics (not a frequent event), his or her options are quite limited. Some Democrats are allies on "social issues", but otherwise the party is a very hostile place. Grover Cleveland and Al Smith would not touch the modern DP with a ten-foot pole, wearing hazmat suits.

The GOP can be just as toxic, but it varies significantly, region by region - and in general it is much less homogeneous ideologically. Here you have the social conservatives, the libertarians, the pro-business pragmatists, and a whole bunch of single-issue characters (guns, immigration, whatever). Whenever libertarians had a chance to make difference, in the last 70 years or so, it happened within the Republican coalition.

If we had a parliamentary system, libertarians would form their own party, and separate themselves clearly from conservatives and crony capitalists. Germany has the FDP, Poland - the Civic Platform and the Palikot's Movement, Denmark - the Venstre, etc. But in America, you have to join one or the other circus: the coalition-building happens before the elections, not after.
 
Officially libertarians are fiscally conservative and socially liberal.

Like most independents in America, if not most Americans. Which sounds schizophrenic, but that's because the proper label - "liberal" - was stolen from us by social democrats somewhere around the 1930s. In the continental Europe, "liberal" still means what it means logically: "free minds and free markets".
 
RepublicansLibertarians
WarYes Please!Only for defense.
SSMGod hates fagsAll citizens are equal
Drug warI like freedom as long as it aligns with my jesus values.It's not the government's place to control your body.
Civil rightsCan be revoked for safetyShould never be revoked for any reason
Foreign PolicyAmerica is superior and special. Do what we say or we attack.We should treat others as we wish to be treated.
ImmigrationClose the borders.Freedom of movement is one of the most basic human rights.


The list could go on for a while. These two parties are not even remotely similar. The issue has been that too many republicans disgusted with their party decide to change the political lean dropdown box to "libertarian", without changing their beliefs.


LOL.

I am surprised by the libertarian position on immigration though. They think anybody who wants should be allowed to move to America with no regulation?

Much of the confusion for me is seeing Libertarians vote for and run as Republicans and vice-versa be we hardly ever see such intra-party movement between Libertarians and Democrats.
 
Like most independents in America, if not most Americans. Which sounds schizophrenic, but that's because the proper label - "liberal" - was stolen from us by social democrats somewhere around the 1930s. In the continental Europe, "liberal" still means what it means logically: "free minds and free markets".

This is very true. I live in Germany and when I talk politics with people I have to say "Ich bin liberal" (I'm liberal), which makes me cringe every single time. I wish there wasn't that link.

LOL.

I am surprised by the libertarian position on immigration though. They think anybody who wants should be allowed to move to America with no regulation?



The Libertarian party's stance on immigration is essentially that our system needs to be revamped because it is far too difficult to legally immigrate. We have illegal immigration because we have a surplus of low end jobs that Americans do not want to fill (such as farming jobs), and there are people from other countries who wish to meet that demand.

The welfare state is the only thing that makes immigration a negative thing. Why would anybody be upset about cheap labor for jobs that need to be done but can't get filled? There certainly should be oversight and regulation, but building a gigantic electro-fence with guards every 100 feet isn't the answer.

Much of the confusion for me is seeing Libertarians vote for and run as Republicans and vice-versa be we hardly ever see such intra-party movement between Libertarians and Democrats.
Yes, that is positively a problem. You have people like Ron Paul who aren't even remotely Republican, but have to run as such because we have a two party system that refuses to even acknowledge other viewpoints.
 
The Republican Party is slightly more libertarian than the Democratic Party, but neither one is nearly as libertarian as the Libertarian Party.

It's actually about fifty-fifty. The republicans are like the libertarians on economic issues, the democrats are like libertarians on social issues, for the most part. There are anomalies, such as gun rights, which is technically a social issue. But generally the rule holds.
 
Nah, I think most people who call themselves "Libertarian" seem to think it's just a cooler sounding synonym for "Republican."

You can tell when they come out on social issues. Libertarians tend to be socially liberal.

Like I said, republicans who do not want to have to pay back their student loans either.
 
It's actually about fifty-fifty. The republicans are like the libertarians on economic issues, the democrats are like libertarians on social issues, for the most part. There are anomalies, such as gun rights, which is technically a social issue. But generally the rule holds.
Officially libertarians are fiscally conservative and socially liberal.
You can tell when they come out on social issues. Libertarians tend to be socially liberal.

Libertarians are most certainly not "socially liberal" and share much in common with the Republican party on social issues. Libertarians may agree with Democrats on certain civil rights issues, but much of the Democrat social agenda is rooted in collectivism, which is flatly rejected by Libertarians and to a lesser extent, Republicans. On the most significant social issues - Education, Welfare/Social Insurance, Health Care - Libertarians have more in common with Republicans than they do with Democrats.
 
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Libertarians are most certainly not "socially liberal" and share much in common with the Republican party on social issues. Libertarians may agree with Democrats on certain civil rights issues, but much of the Democrat social agenda is rooted in collectivism, which is flatly rejected by Libertarians and to a lesser extent, Republicans. On the most significant social issues - Education, Welfare/Social Insurance, Health Care - Libertarians have more in common with Republicans than they do with Democrats.
Those are not social issue, they are economic issues. Think about it. All those things are funded by taxes, coerced by government. Essentially they are wealth redistribution, a form of economic coercion. Social liberty, where democrats and libertarians agree, involve no economic coercion.
 
Libertarians seem more in concert with Republicans than Democrats because more of them care about economic/fiscal issues than social issues.

If you ask the average Republican and the average Libertarian about views on abortion, SSM/adoption, the drug war, etc. you can see why Libertarians would find the comparison insulting.

One of the few things they actually do agree on is that Democrats couldn't manage money at gunpoint.
 
Assume your poll has an "I am an independent who thinks Libertarians as a party are a bunch of southern Civil War buffs who don't want to be called racists, kooks, and young conservatives who do not want to have to pay back their student loans" and I checked that box.

Be sure to also check the "I form my opinions based on hyperbole, intellectually dishonest analogy, hysteria, and propaganda" box as well.
 
RepublicansLibertarians
WarYes Please!Only for defense.
SSMGod hates fagsAll citizens are equal
Drug warI like freedom as long as it aligns with my jesus values.It's not the government's place to control your body.
Civil rightsCan be revoked for safetyShould never be revoked for any reason
Foreign PolicyAmerica is superior and special. Do what we say or we attack.We should treat others as we wish to be treated.
ImmigrationClose the borders.Freedom of movement is one of the most basic human rights.


The list could go on for a while. These two parties are not even remotely similar. The issue has been that too many republicans disgusted with their party decide to change the political lean dropdown box to "libertarian", without changing their beliefs.

while i agree with you here on most, i disagree on one.

that is why every libertarian, is not same......my issue is with the last one.
 
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Libertarians have more in common with Republicans than they do with Democrats.

On a relative scale, maybe. On the absolute scale, we tend to have little in a real commonality with the Republocrats.
 
while i agree with you here on most, i disagree on one.

that is why every libertarian, is not same......my issue is with your last one.

Not every Libertarian is bound to agree with the "party" on each and every issues. Hell, I know some staunchly pro-life Democrats and I know Republicans that rail to get drugs legalized.

In fact, I'd say that Libertarians have the greatest tendencies of all three parties to be in unison on subjects because of why they're Libertarians. When in doubt, most of us will side with the school of thought that most represents a minarchist point of view.
 
I cannot answer the pol...I am not a Libertarian (though I agree with many - though not all - of their positions).

And I am definitely not a member of those complete wastes-of-time other 2 parties.
 
Minarchism



Minarchism (also known as minimal statism) is a libertarian capitalist political philosophy. It is variously defined by sources. In the strictest sense, it holds that states ought to exist (as opposed to anarchy), that their only legitimate function is the protection of individuals from aggression, theft, breach of contract, and fraud, and that the only legitimate governmental institutions are the military, police, and courts. In the broadest sense, it also includes fire departments, prisons, the executive, and legislatures as legitimate government functions. Such states are generally called night-watchman states.

Minarchists argue that the state has no authority to use its monopoly of force to interfere with free transactions between people, and see the state's sole responsibility as ensuring that contracts between private individuals and property are protected, through a system of law courts and enforcement. Minarchists generally believe a laissez-faire approach to the economy is most likely to lead to economic prosperity.
 
Those are not social issue, they are economic issues. Think about it. All those things are funded by taxes, coerced by government. Essentially they are wealth redistribution, a form of economic coercion. Social liberty, where democrats and libertarians agree, involve no economic coercion.
Almost all government is "funded by taxes, coerced by government" - the fact that you pay for something in that manner doesn't make it an "economic issue." They are social issues. A true libertarian has no use for qualifiers on liberty. "Social liberty" is the idea that securing individual rights does not guarantee liberty - that extra steps are required to be sure that "everyone has a fair shake" or whatever it is that Obama is always saying. "Social liberalism" is what brings us concepts like "the right to housing" and "the right to healthcare"
 
while i agree with you here on most, i disagree on one.

that is why every libertarian, is not same......my issue is with the last one.

Yeah immigration is kind of hard to balance priorities and liberties. Even the libertarian platform is a little cryptic on exactly what they mean, but it's still lightyears ahead of the republican stance.

Libertarians are most certainly not "socially liberal" and share much in common with the Republican party on social issues. Libertarians may agree with Democrats on certain civil rights issues, but much of the Democrat social agenda is rooted in collectivism, which is flatly rejected by Libertarians and to a lesser extent, Republicans. On the most significant social issues - Education, Welfare/Social Insurance, Health Care - Libertarians have more in common with Republicans than they do with Democrats.

I agree with GuyIncognito, those are not social issues. If you could be educated, collect welfare, or health care without the help of the state, that would be a social/civil rights issue. Because they are directly funded by the state they are economic issues.

Almost all government is "funded by taxes, coerced by government" - the fact that you pay for something in that manner doesn't make it an "economic issue." They are social issues. A true libertarian has no use for qualifiers on liberty. "Social liberty" is the idea that securing individual rights does not guarantee liberty - that extra steps are required to be sure that "everyone has a fair shake" or whatever it is that Obama is always saying. "Social liberalism" is what brings us concepts like "the right to housing" and "the right to healthcare"

My beliefs can be summed up very easily: You have the right to do whatever it is that makes you happy as long as you don't affect anyone else's right to do the same.

In order to provide a government service you have to take money from someone who earned it. Government services are not a civil right. They must be paid for somehow, and the how must be discussed, therefore they are an economic issue.
 
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