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Israel and Palestine

Israel or Palestine?

  • Israel. The UN created it for a reason

    Votes: 19 36.5%

  • Palestine. It was their land.

    Votes: 12 23.1%

  • Israel, but the land the UN gave them when first made.

    Votes: 8 15.4%

  • Other (post below)

    Votes: 13 25.0%
  • Total voters
    52
MODERATOR GAVEL

:smash:

teacher, you've crossed the line. Such open malice will get this thread thrown in the basement. It was a fairly civilized debate until your last post. This is very interesting and your points could have more wieght and be taken more seriously if you removed the anger and your raging superiority from your post. Pretty please, with sugar on top, be civil. Have a nice day :2razz:.
 
Allem.

Do you agree with the Qu'ran about converting or killing all non believers?

Should the Jews be kicked out entirely of the middle east?

Please defend your countries abysmal PRESENT human rights record.

If you are backed by GOD why do you keep losing?

Can you step away from religious dogma and deal with this issue with facts, logic, and morality?

If America came up with alternative energy sources today, stop buying oil, pull completely out of the middle east, taking the Jews with us, would it then be okay to stop blowing up everything terrorists can sneak up to? And how the hell would the oil producing countries survive?

Do you condone the Koran scriptures about the beating of women?

Should women be allowed to read?
Work?
Vote?
Hold public office?
Dress how they want?
Pick their own husbands?
Teach?

Do you condone the killing of Jewish and Christian tourists in your country?

Do you think the Jews target children specifically or they are collateral damage?

That better boss? But dad, he called me thief first.

What's a henweigh?

Did you see your foreign minister or something about a month ago completely dodge Tim Russerts question about your countries human rights record. How embarrassing.
 
The pictures he showed were of Palestinians and children, not of terrorists. Do you see the difference?

The Quran verse he posted, if you read it, was one overlooked by most who seek to twist the religion of Islam into a hateful and violent one.

Do you condone the Koran scriptures about the beating of women?
Click to expand...

Do you condone the bible verses about the place of women?

Do you condone the bible verses that allow slavery?

Do you condone the bible verses about mass genocide?
 
Been waiting a long time for this question. Of course I don't condone any of that. I've been Christian since the third grade. The born again who quote all scripture and verse the entire bible are the same type of religiously controlled mindless sheep as many Muslims. In debates I often use the point of there being rules in the bible about beating your slave to knock down their piousness. The Jesus I know would not agree with that very much. Let alone the mere fact of owning slaves. My point being a lot of the bible is a tool written by man for control and justification of their brutal actions. Same as the Koran. But, go find yourself a red letter bible. In that version the words that came out of Jesus directly are wrote in red. Read those words alone and tell me if you can disagree with any of his points. Basically he says "be nice". I hear the "saved" say that no person in the world no matter how kind and lacking of sin will go to hell. I've known good Jews, Hindus, and faithless that were the nicest caring people I've ever met. There is no way the God I know would condemn those to hell just because they don't believe in the Christian god. I worked for a Hindu family whose patriarch was the religious leader of the entire Atlanta area. Good man that M.D. We talked of religion often. One day he was telling me the basic rules of his faith and I interrupted him to list the ten commandments he had not yet covered. His eyes grew large and with a big smile he asked how I knew his rules. "My friend" I said "those are my rules also". We both agreed that many different faiths are similar in their basic premise. Be good. An epiphany for us both. By the way he didn't like Muslims much either.

How often do you hear those of Christian faith extol those parts of the bible you stated. Way under 1 percent in my experience. How often have you seen the raging sermons of mullahs talking about the great Satan. The infidels. Kill them , kill them. All the time. that I feel is the difference. They use the Koran to justify jihad. Now we hear the self righteous in this country telling sinners they are going to hell all the time. But how often do you hear them say "kill the nonbelievers". How often do they say owning of slaves is righteous and just. Never. How many Christian martyrs are there. If I die killing children the faith I believe in doesn't reward me with virgins. To contrary I'll spend eternity looking for a glass of water. Check out just the red letters Gandhi and you'll find them more similar to your moniker than those of Mohamed. Logic and morality. Right and wrong. Sin is bad. Be good. Our country doesn't use religious dogma to justify this war. Aleem does. A few choice words run through my head now for him but I'll be mostly nice. Religious zealot. Righteous murderer. Pious savage. Holy killer of children. Mohamed does not seem to preach much peace, love, kindness, and forgiving. Krishna does. Jesus does. That work for you?
 
By the way Gandhi I have no problem with you sticking up for Aleem. But is he not a big boy? If your such a lover of peace and not killing how come you don't take him to the woodshed. If you must fight his fight answer all my questions. By the way I did pretty good by not just saying, "he sucks", didn't I? And those pictures? Like I said before. If my children were bombed by Palestinians I would be covered day and night, head to toe, with Palestinian blood for a long long time. The restraint of the Jews is incomprehensible to me.
 
Looked at your pictures again Aleem. Weak ass sh*t. How about you show the shredded bodies of Jewish children. If I were Jewish and there I'd be kicking the snot out of those guys daily. Guess it's a good thing I'm not. But then I'm the kind of guy that don't take no sh*t from anyone. But I'm also the first to defend the weak. Come on. Someone answer the question? You all trounce on America and Isreal but NO ONE has answered my question? Can you defend the bombing of children? Once again the rest, like your weak ass photos, is moot.
 
Gandhi>Bush said:
The pictures he showed were of Palestinians and children, not of terrorists. Do you see the difference?
Click to expand...

Of course we don't see the previous photo of those Palestinians throwing rocks at guys with guns. Are you just playing devils advocate or do you buy this swill?
Click to expand...
 
teacher said:
Been waiting a long time for this question. Of course I don't condone any of that. I've been Christian since the third grade. The born again who quote all scripture and verse the entire bible are the same type of religiously controlled mindless sheep as many Muslims. In debates I often use the point of there being rules in the bible about beating your slave to knock down their piousness. The Jesus I know would not agree with that very much. Let alone the mere fact of owning slaves. My point being a lot of the bible is a tool written by man for control and justification of their brutal actions. Same as the Koran. But, go find yourself a red letter bible. In that version the words that came out of Jesus directly are wrote in red. Read those words alone and tell me if you can disagree with any of his points. Basically he says "be nice". I hear the "saved" say that no person in the world no matter how kind and lacking of sin will go to hell. I've known good Jews, Hindus, and faithless that were the nicest caring people I've ever met. There is no way the God I know would condemn those to hell just because they don't believe in the Christian god. I worked for a Hindu family whose patriarch was the religious leader of the entire Atlanta area. Good man that M.D. We talked of religion often. One day he was telling me the basic rules of his faith and I interrupted him to list the ten commandments he had not yet covered. His eyes grew large and with a big smile he asked how I knew his rules. "My friend" I said "those are my rules also". We both agreed that many different faiths are similar in their basic premise. Be good. An epiphany for us both. By the way he didn't like Muslims much either.

How often do you hear those of Christian faith extol those parts of the bible you stated. Way under 1 percent in my experience. How often have you seen the raging sermons of mullahs talking about the great Satan. The infidels. Kill them , kill them. All the time. that I feel is the difference. They use the Koran to justify jihad. Now we hear the self righteous in this country telling sinners they are going to hell all the time. But how often do you hear them say "kill the nonbelievers". How often do they say owning of slaves is righteous and just. Never. How many Christian martyrs are there. If I die killing children the faith I believe in doesn't reward me with virgins. To contrary I'll spend eternity looking for a glass of water. Check out just the red letters Gandhi and you'll find them more similar to your moniker than those of Mohamed. Logic and morality. Right and wrong. Sin is bad. Be good. Our country doesn't use religious dogma to justify this war. Aleem does. A few choice words run through my head now for him but I'll be mostly nice. Religious zealot. Righteous murderer. Pious savage. Holy killer of children. Mohamed does not seem to preach much peace, love, kindness, and forgiving. Krishna does. Jesus does. That work for you?
Click to expand...

In my eyes there rally are two Qurans. The part that was written in Mecca, and the part that was written in Medina. A few examples of the conflicting Muhammeds.

In surah 73:10 God tells Mohammed to be patient with his opponents "Be patient with what they say, and part from them courteously." While in surah 2:191 God orders him to kill his opponents "Kill them wherever you find them, and drive them out from wherever they drove you out..."

In surah 2:256 God tells Mohammed not to impose Islam by force "There is no compulsion in religion." While in verse 193 God tells him to kill whoever rejects Islam "Fight (kill) them until there is no persecution and the religion is God's."
Click to expand...

SOURCE

I know for a fact that there are the same type of conflicts in the bible.

Killing is easy, it's peace that's truly challenging. That is why the uneducated would choose the easier path. I myself, with my highschool diploma, come to brick walls and are tempted to say, "Screw it, NUKE 'EM!" because I know how easy that would be. There have been Christians in the past who have chosen the lesser verses, what happened was this beautiful thing called the renassaince(even after that it remained). "To hell with the Crusades, let's paint." That was became the new motto as opposed to "LOOK OUT JESUS IS WATCHING."
 
teacher said:
By the way Gandhi I have no problem with you sticking up for Aleem. But is he not a big boy? If your such a lover of peace and not killing how come you don't take him to the woodshed. If you must fight his fight answer all my questions. By the way I did pretty good by not just saying, "he sucks", didn't I? And those pictures? Like I said before. If my children were bombed by Palestinians I would be covered day and night, head to toe, with Palestinian blood for a long long time. The restraint of the Jews is incomprehensible to me.
Click to expand...

There is nothing that more blood would solve. Do you see what that creates, if everyone would act as you would? Your child dies, so you go out and kill a bunch of palestinians, their fathers go out and kill a bunch of teachers, etc. It goes on and on and on until everybody is dead.

Of course we don't see the previous photo of those Palestinians throwing rocks at guys with guns. Are you just playing devils advocate or do you buy this swill?
Click to expand...

So when a little kid throws a rock at someone he gets ripped away from his family(Photo 17)?

The women in the Burka(sp?) getting her shawl ripped off doesn't seem like the rock throwing kind of gal(Photo 12).

To answer your question:

No one. Not me or Aleem condones the killing of children. This doesn't mean that the Jews are justified in mistreating every single Palestinian like the every single one of them is a terrorists.
 
I'm going to answer you in detail, I know that you and your likes are trying to distort Islam, But I thank you for raising these issues which want to be clarified .

I invite every neutral member and guest to read my answers to remove this confusion about Islam .

But at first, I want to clarify something .
Any defect or fault in the islamic countries means a defect in Muslims NOT in Islam, You get it ?
In other words, You can not take muslims as a reference to judge Islam .
As many of them are muslims only by name, While in fact they do not follow the instructions of Islam nor avoid its restraints, This leads to distorting Islam in the view of people knowing little about Islam .
So if you want to judge Islam, Listen to what Islam says NOT to what muslims do .

In regard to extremists, I think that this group is present in every religion ( As Zionists in Judaism ) And they represent a very tiny percent of muslims, So It's not acceptable to treat all muslims as extremists .

teacher said:
Do you agree with the Qu'ran about converting or killing all non believers?
Click to expand...

Read this text and What Qur'an says about the relation between muslims and non-muslims .


teacher said:
Should the Jews be kicked out entirely of the middle east?
Click to expand...

Refer to Mr Trotsky's posts in this thread and you will know my answer .

teacher said:
Please defend your countries abysmal PRESENT human
rights record.
Click to expand...

I agree with you,There are no human rights here in Egypt .
But it is the fault of the ruler, Not the ruled people .
So i will not defend these despotic rulers whom we hate extremely .

But insteed, Defend USA crimes allover the world .
You know well what USA (The democratic highly-civilized country ) committed ( and still ) in the prisons of Iraq, Guantanamo,....This is not far off from you . So, Don't say a word about Human rights .
USA crimes around the globe .

And If you found any defect in the islamic world, It's not a defect in Islam BUT a defect in Muslims as i mentioned before .

Human Rights In Islam

teacher said:
If you are backed by GOD why do you keep losing?
Click to expand...

Because we ,muslims, don't follow what Th God says so we don't deserve the God's support .
Also the backwardness in which muslims live is not related to their religion, But it's related to the despotism sitting heavily on arabic countries .
How can you expect that a country afflicted by despotism can make a progress ?
When we discard this despodism - which Islam prohibits - and when we live in a real islamic atmosphere - of which democracy is a part ; NB : The word "Democracy" in English corresponds to the word "Al-Shora" in Arabic which was mentioned in Quran 1400 years ago when you were living in the darkness - when we do this we'll be on the top .
As you can see, Muslims don't practice Al-shora (democracy) which The God ordered them 1400 years ago, Now you can understand me when i say that muslims don't follow the God's orders .

You can refer to " Islam And Democracy "


teacher said:
Can you step away from religious dogma and deal with this issue with facts, logic, and morality?
Click to expand...

No i can not, Because my religion - being inspired from The God - contains the absolute facts, the sound logic and the high morality .

teacher said:
If America came up with alternative energy sources today, stop buying oil, pull completely out of the middle east, taking the Jews with us, would it then be okay to stop blowing up everything terrorists can sneak up to? And how the hell would the oil producing countries survive?
Click to expand...

Yes, If USA did what you said especially taking jews with it in addition to not interfering in our affairs and not harassing nor attacking islamic countries, The islamic terrorists will stop blowing up everything .
About the second question, It's not your business, Just leave us alone .

teacher said:
Do you condone the Koran scriptures about the beating of women?

Should women be allowed to read?
Work?
Vote?
Hold public office?
Dress how they want?
Pick their own husbands?
Teach?
Click to expand...

Read these articles written by reliable islamic figuers which answer your questions concerning women in Islam :

“Beat” Them Lightly ?
How Does Modesty Relate to Dress ?
Slandering a Muslim Woman
Abuse of Women's Rights
Distinguishing Culture from Religion Concerning Marriage
Several Questions about Hijab(Headscarf)
Islamic Gender Discrimination?
Equal rights for women

And This link contains 61 articles about woman in the viewpoint of Islam from which i chose the links above




teacher said:
Do you condone the killing of Jewish and Christian tourists in your country?
Do you think the Jews target children specifically or they are collateral damage?
Click to expand...

Are you talking about targetting children ? Alright, Read this :

Israelis shoot 4-year-old child in Gaza
Testimony of an Israeli soldier: to kill children fracture their heads
Israel Killing Children in Palestine
An israeli platoon commander emptied an ammunition clip into a 13-year-old Palestinian girl

And the most important : Transcript of soldiers in Rafah schoolgirl shooting

If you need more, Just tell me .
Tanks-shooting-arabs.jpg

" Israeli tanks shooting palastinian children "


teacher said:
Did you see your foreign minister or something about a month ago completely dodge Tim Russerts question about your countries human rights record. How embarrassing.
Click to expand...

Vide Supra .

There is a difference between the occupier and the occupied .
There is a difference between the aggression and the defence .
There is a difference between the homeland and the settlement .
There is a difference between the automatic rifle and the stone .
There is a difference between the terrorist and the defender .

There is no difference between The Nazism and The Zionism .

I want to tell you something Mr Teacher : This thread talks about the Israeli-palasinian conflict NOT about Islam .
But i think that you had to go off-topic and distract the members from the main topic after the painful facts - you could not refute - mentioned by Mr Trotsky and me .
So you tried to divert the topic toward Islam where you guessed you've an outlet there by inciting topics not well-understood by many in the west .
 
ludahai said:
I voted other because I believe that there should be both an Israel and a Palestine, but not with the U.N. borders. I believe the borders should be as they were in 1967 with the exception that East Jerusalem be attached permanently to Israel.
Click to expand...


Ditto. ludahai is one intelligent person. Very articulate. Could not have said it any better.
 
ludahai said:
There was no mention of which ethnic group should govern it however. The United Nations realized in 1948 that a single-state was impractical, so it created two states. The Jews accepted it, the Arabs did not, despite the fact that they have the rest of the land between the twin rivers and the Atlantic Ocean!
Click to expand...
Palestine means not Israel. Jews would have been able to live there if they didn't create two states. Why create two states? It was Palestine's land, you can't deny that. A mandate for Palestine means Palestine was to govern itself, not to create another state after Israel ****ed up.
 
Who cares, land grabs are negotiable. America took its fare share from Mexico and Spain. :lol:

I wonder who's so keen to spend 2 billions dollars a year in tax payers money to arm Israeli with new toys every year. Thank you Christian brothers for wasting the America's wealth.
 
Fantasea said:
The entire country is smaller in size than the State of New Jersey, and much of it is desert. What is there to split?

Why haven't the wealthy Arab nations which surround Israel shown some mercy and compassion for the generations of those they call Palestinians instead of forcing them to live in horrendous conditions in the quest to force Israel into the sea?

The answer is simple. It is a game and the miserable Arabs called Palestinians are clearly the pawns. Their lives are continually sacrificed in order to keep the pot boiling. If the folks in the Arab capitals who pull the strings wanted peace, they could order it to occur at 2 PM tomorrow, and it would.

They always get what they want. However, peace is not what they want, is it?
Click to expand...




I don't know about the 2pm tomorrow thing but they could sure calm things down if they wanted to. This is all a farce with the Arab nations using the Palestinian people as a weapon against Israel. They could easily find places for them all to live in peace if they so desired.




"There is no language known as Palestinian. There is no distinct Palestinian culture. There has never been a land known as Palestine governed by Palestinians. Palestinians are Arabs, indistinguishable from Jordanians (another recent invention), Syrians, Lebanese, Iraqis, etc. Keep in mind that the Arabs control 99.9 percent of the Middle East lands. Israel represents one-tenth of 1 percent of the landmass.

But that's too much for the Arabs. They want it all. And that is ultimately what the fighting in Israel is about today. Greed. Pride. Envy. Covetousness. No matter how many land concessions the Israelis make, it will never be enough.

Treating a 5,000-year-old birthright backed by overwhelming historical and archaeological evidence equally with illegitimate claims, wishes and wants gives diplomacy and peacekeeping a bad name." ----Joseph Farah
 
akyron said:
I don't know about the 2pm tomorrow thing but they could sure calm things down if they wanted to. This is all a farce with the Arab nations using the Palestinian people as a weapon against Israel. They could easily find places for them all to live in peace if they so desired.




"There is no language known as Palestinian. There is no distinct Palestinian culture. There has never been a land known as Palestine governed by Palestinians. Palestinians are Arabs, indistinguishable from Jordanians (another recent invention), Syrians, Lebanese, Iraqis, etc. Keep in mind that the Arabs control 99.9 percent of the Middle East lands. Israel represents one-tenth of 1 percent of the landmass.

But that's too much for the Arabs. They want it all. And that is ultimately what the fighting in Israel is about today. Greed. Pride. Envy. Covetousness. No matter how many land concessions the Israelis make, it will never be enough.

Treating a 5,000-year-old birthright backed by overwhelming historical and archaeological evidence equally with illegitimate claims, wishes and wants gives diplomacy and peacekeeping a bad name." ----Joseph Farah
Click to expand...

I got bored of this rotten zionistic rants .

Palastine is a part of the arabic world which has its own language, culture....etc .
The same as the states of USA .

If zionists have occupied one state(e.g Utah) of USA, Will you ask the other states to spare a place for the citizens of the occupied state ?

Would you then claim that zionists have the right because there's no language known as Utah'ian language nor was there a separate culture called Utah'ian own culture ? You should feel ashamed .

And if i possess a whole continent, You still don't have any right to occupy ONE CENTIMETER SQUARE of my continent .
And if you did, I'd have the whole right to kick you out of my property .

And if it's a matter of size, Why don't you ask your mother (i.e USA) to spare 0.01 % of its vast lands for her beloved israel ?

By the way, If you're talking about the historical right, Refer to my first post in this thread .


"What is taken by force can't be restored without force "
 
Aleem said:
I got bored of this rotten zionistic rants .

Palastine is a part of the arabic world which has its own language, culture....etc .
The same as the states of USA .

If zionists have occupied one state(e.g Utah) of USA, Will you ask the other states to spare a place for the citizens of the occupied state ?

Would you then claim that zionists have the right because there's no language known as Utah'ian language nor was there a separate culture called Utah'ian own culture ? You should feel ashamed .

And if i possess a whole continent, You still don't have any right to occupy ONE CENTIMETER SQUARE of my continent .
And if you did, I'd have the whole right to kick you out of my property .

And if it's a matter of size, Why don't you ask your mother (i.e USA) to spare 0.01 % of its vast lands for her beloved israel ?

By the way, If you're talking about the historical right, Refer to my first post in this thread .


"What is taken by force can't be restored without force "
Click to expand...

There is no way people can debate a subject unless there is some common ground. If you can't convince the other person by using their beliefs against them, then how can you do it? Yell in their face? :argue
 
It was prophesied the seed of Judah, Ephraim, and the other tribes would return and join together. Don't even try to stop it
 
The actual state of Palastine did not come into existance until Partition, and after enduring milliniea of being subserviant to other nations including Egypt, The Ottomans, The Hittites, Assyrians, The British, The French, The Crusader states, the Saracins and many others. And for the first time the "Palastinians" were going to get a state of their own, and they got it, but it did not matter to them why? Because they had us the Jew's as their neighbors. They attacked us first and brought legions of Arab troops to whipe out the Jews, and by doing that they forfeit any right they had to their own state. They lost thier state due to their own reckless hate.

On another note the Palastinians as a people did not come into existance until past 1967, at partition they were simply Jew hating Arabs. The populations were closer at the time of partition than they ever would be. The Arabs have lost all claim to the land and it is only by my countries good grace that we let them live in the Gaza Strip and West Bank. We are the ONLY nation in the middle east to accept Palastinian Refugees, no other nation will take their muslim brothers in. They want to lump them on us and breed as many terrorists as they can.
 
superskippy said:
The actual state of Palastine did not come into existance until Partition, and after enduring milliniea of being subserviant to other nations including Egypt, The Ottomans, The Hittites, Assyrians, The British, The French, The Crusader states, the Saracins and many others. And for the first time the "Palastinians" were going to get a state of their own, and they got it, but it did not matter to them why? Because they had us the Jew's as their neighbors. They attacked us first and brought legions of Arab troops to whipe out the Jews, and by doing that they forfeit any right they had to their own state. They lost thier state due to their own reckless hate.

On another note the Palastinians as a people did not come into existance until past 1967, at partition they were simply Jew hating Arabs. The populations were closer at the time of partition than they ever would be. The Arabs have lost all claim to the land and it is only by my countries good grace that we let them live in the Gaza Strip and West Bank. We are the ONLY nation in the middle east to accept Palastinian Refugees, no other nation will take their muslim brothers in. They want to lump them on us and breed as many terrorists as they can.
Click to expand...
The Arab is patient and will bide his time. The stated goal is to drive Israel into the sea. The UN mandates mean nothing to them.

When it appears that the time is right the Arab nations will form up and another attempt will be made.
 
Fantasea said:
The Arab is patient and will bide his time. The stated goal is to drive Israel into the sea. The UN mandates mean nothing to them.

When it appears that the time is right the Arab nations will form up and another attempt will be made.
Click to expand...

I believe this is less likely now after the death of Abu Arafat and the current Middle East political climate per soverign states. Egypt and Jordan have viable peace treaties with Israel (with Morocco next). The Iraqi military threat has been removed from the equation. By seeding insurgents into Iraq, Syria has already pushed the bully envelope as far as she dares and has suffered the humiliation of being booted out of Lebanon. The Kingdom of Saudi Arabia is occupied with tremendous internal problems.

Israel is voluntarily and unilaterally withdrawing from Gaza. Abu Abbas and Palestine have nothing to gain and everything to lose if they screw this initiative up. This is their golden opportunity to either put up or shut up.

One must also consider another important facet. The Arab nations of the Middle East have not been able to keep up with the hi-tech weaponry developed and employed by the Israel Defense Forces. Any conventional invasion of Israel by Arab nations today would result in a much more severe thrashing than they received in 1967 if that is possible.

The predominant dangers to Israel today are terrorist organizations such as Hamas and Hizb'allah (Hezbollah), a nuclear-weaponized Iran, and the vicious spittle that eminates from the Arab bloc at the esteemed United (Dysfunctional) Nations.


 
Tashah said:
Originally Posted by Fantasea
The Arab is patient and will bide his time. The stated goal is to drive Israel into the sea. The UN mandates mean nothing to them.

When it appears that the time is right the Arab nations will form up and another attempt will be made.
Click to expand...
I believe this is less likely now after the death of Abu Arafat and the current Middle East political climate per soverign states. Egypt and Jordan have viable peace treaties with Israel (with Morocco next). The Iraqi military threat has been removed from the equation. By seeding insurgents into Iraq, Syria has already pushed the bully envelope as far as she dares and has suffered the humiliation of being booted out of Lebanon. The Kingdom of Saudi Arabia is occupied with tremendous internal problems.

Israel is voluntarily and unilaterally withdrawing from Gaza. Abu Abbas and Palestine have nothing to gain and everything to lose if they screw this initiative up. This is their golden opportunity to either put up or shut up.

One must also consider another important facet. The Arab nations of the Middle East have not been able to keep up with the hi-tech weaponry developed and employed by the Israel Defense Forces. Any conventional invasion of Israel by Arab nations today would result in a much more severe thrashing than they received in 1967 if that is possible.

The predominant dangers to Israel today are terrorist organizations such as Hamas and Hizb'allah (Hezbollah), a nuclear-weaponized Iran, and the vicious spittle that eminates from the Arab bloc at the esteemed United (Dysfunctional) Nations.
Click to expand...
None of what you write is lost on the Arabs. But, their movement need not take the form of war.

However, their goal remains, as does their patience. Simply encouraging and supporting a more rapid population growth among Palestinians, coupled with a 'relaxed' attitude toward peace could, in several generations, produce an imbalance which would simply overwhelm the Israeli populace by dilution.

As the Japanese gained, through peaceful means, the share of the US that they could not gain by war, the Arabs may try the same tactic.
 
Fantasea said:
None of what you write is lost on the Arabs. But, their movement need not take the form of war.

However, their goal remains, as does their patience. Simply encouraging and supporting a more rapid population growth among Palestinians, coupled with a 'relaxed' attitude toward peace could, in several generations, produce an imbalance which would simply overwhelm the Israeli populace by dilution.

As the Japanese gained, through peaceful means, the share of the US that they could not gain by war, the Arabs may try the same tactic.
Click to expand...
I understand the concept of victory through population demographics. I can also assure you that none of what you write is lost on the Israelis.

Per the Arab/Israeli population demographics, you must take into account that the cost of living in Israel is far above what it would be living in the slums of Gaza or Samaria. In other words, the financial burden of large Arab families in Israel would be prohibitive. I suppose you'll have to trust me on this, but Israel will not artificially support (welfare) those who would rather engage in procreation than education.

Arab ingress and egress statistics are also monitored and adjusted. For Arab spouses who are separated (one living in Israel and the other in Palestine), egress is unlimited but ingress is subject to Israeli government controls. I believe at the current time a Palestinian female must be at least 25 years of age and a Palestinian male 35 years of age to reunite in Israel proper.

Despite the fact that there are Christians, Muslims, and Druze living in Israel, it was conceived and realized with a specific purpose, and shall remain as the Jewish homeland. Anyone who believes this truism is problematic is more than welcome to emigrate elsewhere.


 
Within a day of the horrific multiple bombings in London, the G8 announced a $3B grant to the Palestinian Authority. The symbolism of this connection may be lost on some Westerners, but it clearly sent a powerful message to terrorists and potential terrorists: namely, that terrorism works.

There were no grants announced to the Tibetans, who have been occupied more brutally and for a longer period of time than the Palestinians. The Tibetans, however, have never resorted to terrorism.

The Palestinian Authority, and its leaders, are the godfathers of international terrorism. They developed airplane hijacking into a high art. They invented the high-profile murder of athletes and other prominent public figures. Were it not for their employment of terrorism, the Palestinian cause would today be regarded as the fifth-rate human rights issue that it rightfully is. But because the Palestinian leadership has always used terrorism (from the 1920’s on) as the tactic of first resort, their cause has received worldwide recognition.

The primary cause of terrorism is not occupation, humiliation, or desperation. If it were, the Tibetans would be the greatest terrorists. The primary cause of terrorism is that it works. And it works because the craven international community gives into it and rewards it. It also works because too many Islamic leaders praise it and too few condemn it. Terrorism will continue as long as potential terrorists believe they will benefit from using that tactic.
 
Tashah said:
Abu Abbas and Palestine have nothing to gain and everything to lose if they screw this initiative up.
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I bet they scew it up all the same.
The predominant dangers to Israel today are terrorist organizations such as Hamas and Hizb'allah (Hezbollah), a nuclear-weaponized Iran, and the vicious spittle that eminates from the Arab bloc at the esteemed United (Dysfunctional) Nations.
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Just my opinion but if the US doesn't do anything I don't see Israel letting Iran finish that nuclear plant. BOOM.
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