Do you believe in Democracy?

[Amadeus]

Democracy - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Democracy is a form of government in which all eligible citizens have an equal say in the decisions that affect their lives. Democracy allows eligible citizens to participate equally—either directly or through elected representatives—in the proposal, development, and creation of laws. It encompasses social, economic and cultural conditions that enable the free and equal practice of political self-determination.

I notice that some people on the board do not support democracy, so I was curious to see what the overall opinion is.

 

[longview]

I think in a very small group, (say less than 20) a pure democracy may work.
To get bigger the organization will nee to move to something else.
Our something else is a Representative Republic.
It is still a form of democracy, but the image does seem to be fading.

 

[Rainman05]

A republic is a form of government based on democratic principles. Democracy means the people are in power... u get to vote.

This thread is non-sense.

 

[Dragonfly]

Tough question as democracy can often times boil down to "mob rule" can't it?

Isn't there some kind of quote about democracy being not unlike two lions and one lamb deciding what's for lunch that day?

 

[Amadeus]

A republic is a form of government based on democratic principles. Democracy means the people are in power... u get to vote.

This thread is non-sense.

That's why when some laws are proposed, some people threaten or fantasize about open rebellion.

 

[spud_meister]

I believe in One Man, One Vote. I'm the man, and I get to vote. It's the perfect democracy.

(So I stole that from Pratchett, leave me alone)

 

[Amadeus]

Tough question as democracy can often times boil down to "mob rule" can't it?

That can be a possibility without certain protections. However, moderate opinion is often the deciding factor in a democracy. As I've suggested many times, extremists make their arguments and attempt to pull moderates to their side. Losing the argument means losing the moderates, which means that democracy heads in the opposing direction. Without this function, society would be stagnant.

 

[Andalublue]

Tough question as democracy can often times boil down to "mob rule" can't it?

It can, but do you think the mob could do a worse job of it than the élite has done?

 

[JayDubya]

Democracy is terrible, that's why we we're supposed to have a constitutional republic. It modifies the form, mainly by restricting its worst abuses.

In practice, however, we're ignoring the rule of law and devolving into a lower form of government - a democracy.

 

[Gardener]

It can, but do you think the mob could do a worse job of it than the élite has done?

Well, THE mob might do a decent job. Just any old mob? Not so much.

Now, a hipsterocracy on the other hand......

 

[MoSurveyor]

I notice that some people on the board do not support democracy, so I was curious to see what the overall opinion is.

But only because your definition also includes representational democracy. True democratic voting for some things, especially local issues, is great. For others it would never really work.

 

[kenc]

It kills me how people fear the "rule by majority" but just love the "rule by elite minority" that we have now. You think because you have a vote every 2 or 4 years that you have a say in how your life is governed? Is Obama really doing what people expected of him? Change? Far from it. Did GWB really do what the people expected of him? Far from it. Politician's have no need to do what is in the best interest of the people when so many moneyed interests have much better options for them and can get them re-elected as well. The only thing that can bring our governments back to doing what is best for the people is direct democracy. If people don't like that then I really think we should consider not even having voting rights and just let the moneyed interests decide who governs. We're pretty much there anyway, so why do they need our votes? Maybe just to validate a corrupt system?

 

[DVSentinel]

You left off "other".

I believe in a merit based democratic system, a meritocracy. The right to vote and hold office should not be based solely on being alive and breathing but earned through some measurable action. Frankly, I like Heinlein's service before citizenship idea. I don't think it is perfect, but much, much better than our current system.

 

[Cardinal]

I notice that some people on the board do not support democracy, so I was curious to see what the overall opinion is.

Democracy, or a representative Republic, is to-date the best form of government for large populations and bureaucracies. Until an entirely new governing philosophy is created, the Democracy/Republic it is.

 

[Spartacus FPV]

I notice that some people on the board do not support democracy, so I was curious to see what the overall opinion is.

When it comes to my individual rights, I care not what the mob thinks. Our rights are specifically the kinds of things that cannot legally be voted away.

I like the idea of democratically elected officials, because you can get rid of the meddlesome ones. Else Democracy to me is just two wolves and a sheep deciding on whats for dinner. When those that rob Peter to pay Paul always have Paul's support, the thieving and corruption will not end.

 

[kenc]

When it comes to my individual rights, I care not what the mob thinks. Our rights are specifically the kinds of things that cannot legally be voted away.

I like the idea of democratically elected officials, because you can get rid of the meddlesome ones. Else Democracy to me is just two wolves and a sheep deciding on whats for dinner. When those that rob Peter to pay Paul always have Paul's support, the thieving and corruption will not end.

This "two wolves and a sheep" stuff is what I am trying to understand. What is the alternative that protects the sheep? Sounds more like FUD to keep people believing in their elected officials than anything else. Say we have a town of 100 people. Instead of direct democracy, where everyone gets a vote on matters that affect them, we instead choose two democratically elected administrators who immediately realize their power and then all of a sudden it is two wolves and 98 sheep. No matter what, sheep's for dinner.

The hidden benefit to direct democracy is that it would be much more difficult to do stuff that is obviously not in the interest of the people. Try to push through the Patriot Act when more than half of the country has to agree on it. Or bailout inefficient banks that should rightly fail in the free, unregulated market they wanted so badly.

 

[Spartacus FPV]

This "two wolves and a sheep" stuff is what I am trying to understand. What is the alternative that protects the sheep?

A well armed sheep contesting the vote.

Sounds more like FUD to keep people believing in their elected officials than anything else. Say we have a town of 100 people. Instead of direct democracy, where everyone gets a vote on matters that affect them, we instead choose two democratically elected administrators who immediately realize their power and then all of a sudden it is two wolves and 98 sheep. No matter what, sheep's for dinner.

So long as that sheep has rights he can appeal to a court over, rights they must recognize, then it isn't "no matter what."

The hidden benefit to direct democracy is that it would be much more difficult to do stuff that is obviously not in the interest of the people. Try to push through the Patriot Act when more than half of the country has to agree on it. Or bailout inefficient banks that should rightly fail in the free, unregulated market they wanted so badly.

None of that would be worth the costs of mob rule.

 

[Ikari]

I notice that some people on the board do not support democracy, so I was curious to see what the overall opinion is.

Depends on the type. Pure democracy? No, that's just mob rule. Something like a Democratic Republic where the will of the majority is held in check by the rights and liberties of the minority? Yeah, I can go for that.

 

[MoSurveyor]

When it comes to my individual rights, I care not what the mob thinks. Our rights are specifically the kinds of things that cannot legally be voted away.

I like the idea of democratically elected officials, because you can get rid of the meddlesome ones. Else Democracy to me is just two wolves and a sheep deciding on whats for dinner. When those that rob Peter to pay Paul always have Paul's support, the thieving and corruption will not end.

??? Yes they can - it's just damn hard to do it because it takes much more than a simple majority and a lot of hoops to jump through.

 

[L0neW0lf]

No, the majority of people are too dumb.

 

[kenc]

None of that would be worth the costs of mob rule.

What exactly is Mob Rule? I live really close to Switzerland which has a system that embraces direct democracy. These are the most peaceful, well-governed people I have ever seen. They also have a very high average standard of living, notably higher than the average in the US. Is that what we think of as mob rule? OTOH, I currently live in Italy where the elected representatives do nothing for the people except tax them to death. We are not allowed to have firearms to protect ourselves from the wolves. Give me mob rule any time.

 

[Hard Truth]

Yes, but for larger institutions a representative democracy is necessary. For democratic government to work well, there also needs to be protections for the rights of minorities, checks and balances and limits to government power. The USA's constitution (with its amendments) does pretty good job of establishing these protections and balances.

Democracy requires a stable life for the participants, a reasonably well educated populace committed to the concept, and a free and active media, journalism and communications environment. Attempts to impose democracy on regions that do not have these conditions will usually not work out well.

I don't believe in democracy because the people as a whole are smart or because they will always make the right decisions. I support democracy because it is a good process for dispute resolution without violence.

 

[MoSurveyor]

What exactly is Mob Rule? I live really close to Switzerland which has a system that embraces direct democracy. These are the most peaceful, well-governed people I have ever seen. They also have a very high average standard of living, notably higher than the average in the US. Is that what we think of as mob rule? OTOH, I currently live in Italy where the elected representatives do nothing for the people except tax them to death. We are not allowed to have firearms to protect ourselves from the wolves. Give me mob rule any time.

If Switzerland were a state it would rank at 13th for population, just below Virginia, and 42nd in size, just above Maryland. Don't get me wring, I like Switzerland and many of their ideas but your comparison isn't very good.

 

[Andalublue]

I like Switzerland and many of their ideas .

Really? Have you ever lived there?

It's ghastly.

 

[Morality Games]

I notice that some people on the board do not support democracy, so I was curious to see what the overall opinion is.

Depends on the culture. Our present culture is too self-absorbed to support a functional democratic government, representative or otherwise.