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Death penalty for rapist and pedophiles?

joko104 said:
I totally disagree. I do not believe ONE PERSON, ever, had decided whether or not to kill someone based upon whether he will get life without parole or the death penalty. In fact, I believe that convenient typical claim is absurd. Do you really believe anyone, ever, decided "because I'm only going to prison for the rest of my life I won't kill this person." ?

The deterence factor of the death penalty is it prevents that person from ever committing the offense again. The justice factor is without the death penalty, the murderer won and neither the victim nor family/friends ever got any justice.

I see opposition of the death penalty where it absolutely known the person did such horrific murder/s as totally ego centric and narcisstic. Life in prison definitely protects YOU. But it will take the entire lifetime of taxes of 2 or 3 of us to pay to keep YOU safe, while the murderer won by having his life, and the victim got no justice because she/he/they lost theirs. In fact, you are really claiming is that the result of committing the most horrific torturous and sadistic rape and murder of an entire family is for the murderer to be protected and provided for the rest of his life by the government.

So, sure, you are then safe. And all of us become his victim, not just the murdered or raped person/s.
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That is wrong. There are plenty of families who do not wish to have the death penalty applied. One of the main reasons is because it extends the trial (and the pain) exponentially, they don't feel better when the person who killed their loved one is dead, it doesn't bring their loved one back, it causes pain to the perps family, among other reasons.

There are so many things wrong with the way the DP is applied now, and now people want to extend it to other crimes?
 
ChrisL said:
What? It is quite related. It is regarding the death penalty and the problems with it. Sorry if you can't debate the topic like an adult without whining.
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What whining?

*looks up to read the title of this thread again*

Nope, looks off-topic to me. I guess it is not off-topic if somebody wants to try and bring their own viewpoints into anything that even remotely touches upon it though.

*wanders away from boredom*
 
Oozlefinch said:
What whining?

*looks up to read the title of this thread again*

Nope, looks off-topic to me. I guess it is not off-topic if somebody wants to try and bring their own viewpoints into anything that even remotely touches upon it though.

*wanders away from boredom*
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The topic is about giving the death penalty to rapists. I am stating the problems with the death penalty as it is exists now, and problems with applying it to this scenario. Sorry, but that is NOT off topic.
 
ChrisL said:
Okay, but I don't see how that justifies the state killing the perpetrator. Didn't mama ever teach you that two wrongs don't make a right?
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The problem with that statement is that punishment isn't wrong.
 
Mathematician said:
The problem with that statement is that punishment isn't wrong.
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Killing someone isn't a punishment. It is just killing them. They are not alive anymore, so there is no "punishment." The only people who are punished are the perpetrators family and children.
 
The only time I support the death penalty is when another life has been taken. Rape and pedophilia are absolutely atrocious acts, but unless they killed someone I don't think the guilty person should be put to death.
 
Mathematician said:
The problem with that statement is that punishment isn't wrong.
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Sure ain't, necessary in fact. Though I haven't heard anyone claim that we should have zero punishment. However, there is proper punishment and there are demographics of systems enacted and we know from measurement that the death penalty has no real deterrent effect, has no real additional public safety beyond what life in prison provides, consumes a lot of money and lives, including innocent lives. Given the failure mechanisms of the death penalty, the costs involved, and the zero affect it has on deterrence, prison population, prison violence, and societal safety; there's really no logical reason left to have it.
 
ChrisL said:
Killing someone isn't a punishment. It is just killing them. They are not alive anymore, so there is no "punishment." The only people who are punished are the perpetrators family and children.
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There's a reason it's called the death penalty. Look up the definition of penalty or read the first sentence of the Wiki page on punishment:
Punishment - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

If the family of the perpetrator are hurt by it then they truly have the perpetrator to blame.
 
Mathematician said:
There's a reason it's called the death penalty. Look up the definition of penalty or read the first sentence of the Wiki page on punishment:
Punishment - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

If the family of the perpetrator are hurt by it then they truly have the perpetrator to blame.
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I know what the word "penalty" means. :roll:

Just because it's called "the death penalty" doesn't mean it's a penalty. Okay, maybe it is a penalty up UNTIL the time of the inmate's death. Then, it no longer counts as a penalty because he/she can't feel anything on this earth anymore.
 
ChrisL said:
Killing someone isn't a punishment. It is just killing them. They are not alive anymore, so there is no "punishment." The only people who are punished are the perpetrators family and children.
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From a moral standpoint, I agree with you. However, we cannot afford to do every moral action we are capable of in this world. As extreme as it may sound, I am for more death penalties. carried out swiftly rather than the unbearable time frames they have to wait. It would save so much money, but for anyone who commits first degree crimes against others in society, that are deemed nonredeemable... Let's put them out of our misery... And fast!

We shouldn't bother housing and feeding dangerous animals in prison. They just corrupt the redeemable prisoners.

Besides, once dead, they can never harm society again.
 
Lord of Planar said:
From a moral standpoint, I agree with you. However, we cannot afford to do every moral action we are capable of in this world. As extreme as it may sound, I am for more death penalties. carried out swiftly rather than the unbearable time frames they have to wait. It would save so much money, but for anyone who commits first degree crimes against others in society, that are deemed nonredeemable... Let's put them out of our misery... And fast!

We shouldn't bother housing and feeding dangerous animals in prison. They just corrupt the redeemable prisoners.

Besides, once dead, they can never harm society again.
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That will never happen though because of the back load of cases in the appeals process, which is very long and drawn out to make sure every T is crossed. Unfortunately, they still don't get it right sometimes. How can you trust the government with such a job?
 
ChrisL said:
That will never happen though because of the back load of cases in the appeals process, which is very long and drawn out to make sure every T is crossed. Unfortunately, they still don't get it right sometimes. How can you trust the government with such a job?
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Mistakes happen, but I think life in prison is less humane than the death penalty.
 
Lord of Planar said:
Mistakes happen, but I think life in prison is less humane than the death penalty.
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That depends entirely upon the person I think.

There are actually people who have grown up in the prison system and feel perfectly comfortable living under those circumstances. My ideas involve changing the prison system entirely though.
 
ChrisL said:
That depends entirely upon the person I think.

There are actually people who have grown up in the prison system and feel perfectly comfortable living under those circumstances. My ideas involve changing the prison system entirely though.
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Good luck with that.
 
ChrisL said:
The topic is about giving the death penalty to rapists. I am stating the problems with the death penalty as it is exists now, and problems with applying it to this scenario. Sorry, but that is NOT off topic.
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It definitely is NOT off topic to question the death penalty overall to a death penalty topic.
 
ChrisL said:
Killing someone isn't a punishment. It is just killing them. They are not alive anymore, so there is no "punishment." The only people who are punished are the perpetrators family and children.
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Executing someone isn't punishment? Then we should legalize murder. "Killing someone isn't punishment" is not a slogan you should hang onto.

For myself, the only reason I have to question the death penalty is flaws in the criminal justice system.

Someone having life sentence without parole punishes everyone. Everyone has less money for their children, themselves. Everyone is taxed to keep that person alive, which means everyone is working and spending part of their life on behalf of the rapists.

Would you donate $100 to a rapist? $500? $1000? That is what life without parole is.

In my personal opinion, I don't think "rape" or "murder" should be the standard. I think it should be sadism - sadistic, torturous violence as that is a person so fundamentally anti-social and amoral, so mentally and dangerously disturbed, they are no different than a rabid animal. Spending $1 million plus on such a person for housing etc it absurd and wrong in my opinion.
 
joko104 said:
Executing someone isn't punishment? Then we should legalize murder. "Killing someone isn't punishment" is not a slogan you should hang onto.

For myself, the only reason I have to question the death penalty is flaws in the criminal justice system.

Someone having life sentence without parole punishes everyone. Everyone has less money for their children, themselves. Everyone is taxed to keep that person alive, which means everyone is working and spending part of their life on behalf of the rapists.

Would you donate $100 to a rapist? $500? $1000? That is what life without parole is.

In my personal opinion, I don't think "rape" or "murder" should be the standard. I think it should be sadism - sadistic, torturous violence as that is a person so fundamentally anti-social and amoral, so mentally and dangerously disturbed, they are no different than a rabid animal. Spending $1 million plus on such a person for housing etc it absurd and wrong in my opinion.
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It isn't a punishment. If you can't feel anything anymore, then there is no punishment. Like I said, the only people that are punished are the inmates family. :shrug: He doesn't feel anything anymore. Not to mention, the DP isn't going to bring the loved one back from the dead. It is only adding to the death count, and the thing I have a real problem with is that I don't think the states should wield such power, especially considering how they handle most things.
 
I don't want my government having the power of life and death over me, and I trust them more than I trust yours. I believe more in ****-up than conspiracy, but the chance of either is enough to deny the death penalty.
 
ChrisL said:
You should do some research into this. The only reason why more people are not exonerated is because the Innocence Project is fully made of up volunteers. They get NO government funding. This is a completely voluntary thing that some professionals, such as lawyers, ex-judges, etc., do because they KNOW how whacked the justice system is, and they KNOW that innocent people are convicted of crimes they didn't commit.

Only a monkey wouldn't realize this simple fact.

Yeah!!! So let's KILL EM ALL! :roll:



Sorry, couldn't resist. :2razz:
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I just went to listen to this, and it wasn't Kill Em All, although that is what the label says. It was actually Fade to Black by Metallica, so I have to correct that. What kind of idiot posted Fade to Black and labeled it Kill Em All, I don't know. What a disgrace! :doh
 
joko104 said:
Capital punishment is entirely preventative.
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Um, no, I don't think it is. Elsewise, there'd be no murders in capital punishment states.


It prevents the person from every harming anyone again.
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Yes, it does that. I bet amputating both arms would do that, too. Then you could throw them back to sink or swim.

It is not preventative in relation to others. Criminals at that level do not consider consequences.
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Pretty much what I said.
 
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sawyerloggingon said:
Pedophiles don't get better and they have devastated a child's life not to mention devastating the entire family. Rapist have violated a womans rights in the most despicable fashion possible and scarred her for life. The impact of these crimes on children, their parents and women are so grievous that IMO the perpetrates should get the death penalty. Not only would this be justice but the incidents of rape and child molesting-rape would plummet.
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My sentiments exactly. There is one problem though, and that is false claims. You'd almost have to catch the sick bastards in the act.

I'm thinking of a case where a Swiss weatherman was a playboy like Clinton, and his ex-girlfriend tried to and did destroy his life and reputation. He wasn't convicted of the charges brought against him, but he's been ruined and the press piled on big time... whereas Clinton was celebrated... by the same folks I might add.
 
zimmer said:
My sentiments exactly. There is one problem though, and that is false claims. You'd almost have to catch the sick bastards in the act.

I'm thinking of a case where a Swiss weatherman was a playboy like Clinton, and his ex-girlfriend tried to and did destroy his life and reputation. He wasn't convicted of the charges brought against him, but he's been ruined and the press piled on big time... whereas Clinton was celebrated... by the same folks I might add.
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I agree the bar for the death penalty would have to be set very high just as it is in murder cases.
 
Manc Skipper said:
I don't want my government having the power of life and death over me, and I trust them more than I trust yours. I believe more in ****-up than conspiracy, but the chance of either is enough to deny the death penalty.
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Yes. My thinking exactly. Also, if the State is given the power of capital punishment the first place it'll want to apply it is in crime against itself, ie. treason.
 
Morality Games said:
This country needs to get over its creepy medieval attitudes toward sex.

I often hear sentiments in the kind of "Rape victims are better off dead" than continuing on after the experience. I'm not sure that people who say that understand what dying entails, or have thought about the opportunities of life that a dead rape victim would be missing out on.
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I don't know how I missed your post back when this thread was active. I agree very much with your thoughts on this. I don't understand how so many people believe that termination of their consciousness is preferable to a brief experience like rape. I think a lot of this has to do with anachronistic Victorian views about sex, which has taught women that rape is a fate worse than death.

Also, feminist rape hysteria plays a role. Women have also been taught by feminism that rape is the worst crime against women, that women must be suspicious of men at all times, every man is a potential rapist, etc. The crime of rape is built up in their minds into a constant threat and one which will almost certainly send them running to a psychologist to try to reconstruct their shattered psyches.

Whether a woman's "life is over" after a rape or not comes down to her premorbid proneness to neuroticism and PTSD. Most women survive being raped without it destroying their entire lives or even coming remotely close to it.

While I'm sure its traumatic, rape is a form of assault. It might be reasonable to make paying restitution or a good public beating/shaming a much larger part of the punishment, but those are about the only amendment I'm willing to make to our current laws.
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I would mete out a flogging and a fine for the first offense.
 
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