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Death penalty for rapist and pedophiles?

"Our crime against criminals is that we treat them like scoundrels."

First: Something no one ever seems to note: pedophilia is a propensity not a crime, and in fact more crimes against children are perpetrated by sexually frustrated heterosexuals.
Second: If we put all of the heathens to the pyre, pray do tell how we learn from them?
Third: Whatever happened to rehabilitation as a goal?
 
sawyerloggingon said:
Pedophiles don't get better and they have devastated a child's life not to mention devastating the entire family. Rapist have violated a womans rights in the most despicable fashion possible and scarred her for life. The impact of these crimes on children, their parents and women are so grievous that IMO the perpetrates should get the death penalty. Not only would this be justice but the incidents of rape and child molesting-rape would plummet.
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You do realize that accusations of rape and pedophilia are ROUTINELY used by women to try to win custody in vicious custody battles? Unless there was concrete absolute proof I would be against. He said she said don't cut it. I have no problem terminating psychological basket cases but I do have a problem with frying innocent people, or those convicted on marginal evidence. You want to fry em that's fine, but as far as I am concerned you better have rock solid INDISPUTABLE evidence of guilt, without which you can fugetaboutit.
 
You cannot give rapists/pedophiles the death penalty.

Why?

Because if you do - then please tell me why a rapist/pedophile would not kill his victim?

In fact, he would be stupid not to.

Why leave a living witness when the maximum penalty for raping/killing his victim is exactly the same as just raping his victim?


Unless you want a LOT less rape survivors, then you cannot make the penalty for rape/molestation the death penalty.
 
This morning at breakfast, someone commented on one of continual reports of horrific crimes.

A couple, age 23 and 22, were car jacked. They were take to a remote house and tortured and raped for 3 days. He was then shot to death. For the rest of the week, she was tortured and raped by 4 men and 1 woman.

To try to destroy DNA evidence, while she was still alive they poured acid down her throat, put inside her and poured over her. The acid ultimately killed her, whereupon they cut up her body, put in into trash bags and discarded.

People can't really grasp that reality, so can discuss it with lofty - but twisted - philosophy and slogans. Anyone who has seen and heard such levels of sadistic violence and torture has a more simple view: "KILL THEM!" That is the ONLY possible justice for him and for her. But the anti-death penalty people declare that justice would be wrong. Indeed, they will claim that justice would be to be like those 5 sadistic torturers.

So instead, the anti-death penalty folks say this is what should happen:

We should spend well over $5 million dollars giving them a new, carefree way of life in a contained society for which all needs are provided for free. As a reward for their actions, none of them should ever be required to work again. All their meals, entertainment, medical care, utilities, cable TV, and housing should be free as a life time benefit - like they won a lottery.

Prison is just another way of life and another society. A different life style. Anti-death penalty people in reality demand they be rewarded - and rewarded for life - but that their live style be changed so that they only endanger other people in another walled society. And they demand that I pay for their bizarre morality of rewarding sadistic torturers and murderers for what they did.

I do believe there are different forms and levels of "rape." For me, the dividing lines are based upon 1.) age and 2.) brutality/sadism/torture.

In my opinion, a criminal torturing someone as pleasurable sadism in real, harmful ways is a worse crime than murder and represents a vastly more dangerous person. People who derive pleasure from causing hopeless terror and horror by sadistic torture to another human is so twisted and so bold that person can not be reformed, may not be allowed to be in any society - including prison society - and should be put down no different than any other crazied or rapid animal.

I also do not believe in torture as punishment, and therefore opposite perpetual solitary confinement. Nor do I believe such a person should be rewarded with lifelong free living. Therefore, the death penalty is the only option for such people in my opinion.

The underlying platitude of our criminal justice system is "don't take the law into your own hands, let the government do it." But the government doesn't. It rewards them and punishes us via costs and punishes others they are put with. It also is the government protecting them from any justice actually being done.

Rape, torture and murder a child? The anti-death penalty crowd will declare that rapist-murderer just won the lottery for life.
 
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sawyerloggingon said:
Pedophiles don't get better and they have devastated a child's life not to mention devastating the entire family. Rapist have violated a womans rights in the most despicable fashion possible and scarred her for life. The impact of these crimes on children, their parents and women are so grievous that IMO the perpetrates should get the death penalty. Not only would this be justice but the incidents of rape and child molesting-rape would plummet.
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Dead victims bear no witness.

Another emotionally and poorly thought out response to a complex and serious problem. When a person is committing one of these crimes, and they know the likely resulting scenarios are...

1) Live victim, testifying at trial, get executed, or
2) Dead victim, no body found, no witness, no trial, get off scot-free

...which route do you think they will choose?

Is it guaranteed they would choose #2? Of course, not. Nothing is absolute, but enough would that you would be effectively sentencing a great deal many more victims to their own death sentence. Now, they still might get caught anyway, this is true, but by eliminating the witness they stack the odds in their own favor.
 
joko104 said:
This morning at breakfast, someone commented on one of continual reports of horrific crimes.

A couple, age 23 and 22, were car jacked. They were take to a remote house and tortured and raped for 3 days. He was then shot to death. For the rest of the week, she was tortured and raped by 4 men and 1 woman.

To try to destroy DNA evidence, while she was still alive they poured acid down her throat, put inside her and poured over her. The acid ultimately killed her, whereupon they cut up her body, put in into trash bags and discarded.

People can't really grasp that reality, so can discuss it with lofty - but twisted - philosophy and slogans. Anyone who has seen and heard such levels of sadistic violence and torture has a more simple view: "KILL THEM!" That is the ONLY possible justice for him and for her. But the anti-death penalty people declare that justice would be wrong. Indeed, they will claim that justice would be to be like those 5 sadistic torturers.

So instead, the anti-death penalty folks say this is what should happen:

We should spend well over $5 million dollars giving them a new, carefree way of life in a contained society for which all needs are provided for free. As a reward for their actions, none of them should ever be required to work again. All their meals, entertainment, medical care, utilities, cable TV, and housing should be free as a life time benefit - like they won a lottery.

Prison is just another way of life and another society. A different life style. Anti-death penalty people in reality demand they be rewarded - and rewarded for life - but that their live style be changed so that they only endanger other people in another walled society. And they demand that I pay for their bizarre morality of rewarding sadistic torturers and murderers for what they did.

I do believe there are different forms and levels of "rape." For me, the dividing lines are based upon 1.) age and 2.) brutality/sadism/torture.

In my opinion, a criminal torturing someone as pleasurable sadism in real, harmful ways is a worse crime than murder and represents a vastly more dangerous person. People who derive pleasure from causing hopeless terror and horror by sadistic torture to another human is so twisted and so bold that person can not be reformed, may not be allowed to be in any society - including prison society - and should be put down no different than any other crazied or rapid animal.

I also do not believe in torture as punishment, and therefore opposite perpetual solitary confinement. Nor do I believe such a person should be rewarded with lifelong free living. Therefore, the death penalty is the only option for such people in my opinion.

The underlying platitude of our criminal justice system is "don't take the law into your own hands, let the government do it." But the government doesn't. It rewards them and punishes us via costs and punishes others they are put with. It also is the government protecting them from any justice actually being done.

Rape, torture and murder a child? The anti-death penalty crowd will declare that rapist-murderer just won the lottery for life.
Click to expand...

"When his fair freshness once has been
Blotched and defiled with grime, and he,
Like worthless bronze, which testing blows
Have blackened, lies despoiled, and shows
His baseness plain for all to see,
Then every cure renews despair;
A boy chasing bird on wing,
He on his race and soil must bring
A deeper doom than flesh can bear;
The gods are deaf to every prayer;
If pity lights a human eye,
Pity by Justice' law must share
The sinner's guilt, and with the sinner die."
 
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I don't understand life in prison. It would make sense if these people were doing some good for society while incarcerated, but if they aren't, what's the point?
 
Chaddelamancha said:
I don't understand life in prison. It would make sense if these people were doing some good for society while incarcerated, but if they aren't, what's the point?
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To warehouse them. The point being keeping them away from society at large, thereby presumably making society safer.
 
Incarnari said:
"When his fair freshness once has been
Blotched and defiled with grime, and he,
Like worthless bronze, which testing blows
Have blackened, lies despoiled, and shows
His baseness plain for all to see,
Then every cure renews despair;
A boy chasing bird on wing,
He on his race and soil must bring
A deeper doom than flesh can bear;
The gods are deaf to every prayer;
If pity lights a human eye,
Pity by Justice' law must share
The sinner's guilt, and with the sinner die."
Click to expand...


That flies right over my head. Interpretation please.
 
Cyrylek said:
No death penalty for anyone. Life in prison without parole for child rapists, just like for murderers.
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Why life in prison? So they can have plenty of captives to rape? Or what?
 
MaggieD said:
There should be a two-strike rule for pedophiles: second time is prison for life.

As for rapists, there are too damned many grey areas in the mix. But for those that "qualify," a two-strike rule there as well. Second time prison for life.

And. If we stopped the so-called War on Drugs, we'd have more than enough room for all of them.

I've always thought the death penalty is too easy.
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For some people prison is just another way of life and a particularly easy one.
 
sawyerloggingon said:
Pedophiles don't get better and they have devastated a child's life not to mention devastating the entire family. Rapist have violated a womans rights in the most despicable fashion possible and scarred her for life. The impact of these crimes on children, their parents and women are so grievous that IMO the perpetrates should get the death penalty. Not only would this be justice but the incidents of rape and child molesting-rape would plummet.
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I support the death penalty and applying it to rape and child abuse.
 
Graffias said:
Of course, I oppose this for reasons I've explained numerous times on this forum. I agree child molesters need to be given long prison sentences and maybe even put away for life depending on a number of factors. But rapists of adult women should not receive similar sentences. By arguing for the death penalty for both, you're basically saying that a crime against a woman is as heinous as a crime against a child, and I simply don't believe this. The reason why rape was punished severely, historically, is that it damaged the household of the rape victim. That is now irrelevant, since women are not expected to be married as virgins and further, marriages have less monetary value to families anyway.

All women have left is 'it makes me feel bad,' and I'm not buying that song and dance. In addition, I find it hypocritical that women expect special treatment in this respect, yet they are supposed to be equal in others. If they are equal to men in all intellectual and emotional respects, then I wish to treat them as such. I'm not interested in hearing about how they are in a sense the sort of emotionally frail creatures we thought they were back when we had primitive, bigoted, and chauvinistic views. Let them be men, I say. If they don't like it, they can always return to the old ways.

In conclusion, rape is to me nothing more than simple assault at this point in our development. It happens to be less physically damaging than assault, in most cases, and hence it should be a relatively minor offense, unless it is exacerbated by other abusive behaviors. Not only would I not put rapists to death, but I would consider the crime equivalent to misdemeanor assault in a large percentage of cases.
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A socialist man who wants to be able to rape with little recourse?

I see these type messages as baiting and generally they are foolish and factually wrong.

Rape can result in deadly and permanent diseases - thus can destroy a person's life, prevent having children ever - and can cause unwanted pregancies - all facts left out.
The messiage is foolish as it asserts the victims are always women, and this is false, so it also a very naive view. The poll is NOT about rape of women - but rape period.

Clearly that member trivializes sex. But also is naive, foolish and unknowledgable about STDs, pregnancy, and that children and males are raped, not just females.

His comment about "damage to the household" is just nothing and wrong.
 
Ikari said:
I am against the death penalty in general and would not endorse it here.
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I am the opposite. It wouldn't bother me if we had the death penalty for many first degree crimes committed against another.

Thing is proving it. So many women cry rape when it isn't for example.
 
Simple answer: it should be an option.
 
DA60 said:
You cannot give rapists/pedophiles the death penalty.

Why?

Because if you do - then please tell me why a rapist/pedophile would not kill his victim?

In fact, he would be stupid not to.

Why leave a living witness when the maximum penalty for raping/killing his victim is exactly the same as just raping his victim?


Unless you want a LOT less rape survivors, then you cannot make the penalty for rape/molestation the death penalty.
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A dead criminal cannot commit any more crimes.
 
sawyerloggingon said:
Pedophiles don't get better and they have devastated a child's life not to mention devastating the entire family. Rapist have violated a womans rights in the most despicable fashion possible and scarred her for life. The impact of these crimes on children, their parents and women are so grievous that IMO the perpetrates should get the death penalty. Not only would this be justice but the incidents of rape and child molesting-rape would plummet.
Click to expand...

This country needs to get over its creepy medieval attitudes toward sex.

I often hear sentiments in the kind of "Rape victims are better off dead" than continuing on after the experience. I'm not sure that people who say that understand what dying entails, or have thought about the opportunities of life that a dead rape victim would be missing out on. While I'm sure its traumatic, rape is a form of assault. It might be reasonable to make paying restitution or a good public beating/shaming a much larger part of the punishment, but those are about the only amendment I'm willing to make to our current laws.
 
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Morality Games said:
This country needs to get over its creepy medieval attitudes toward sex.

I often hear sentiments in the kind of "Rape victims are better off dead" than continuing on after the experience. I'm not sure that people who say that understand what dying entails, or have thought about the opportunities of life that a dead rape victim would be missing out on. While I'm sure its traumatic, rape is a form of assault. It might be reasonable to make paying restitution or a good public beating/shaming a much larger part of the punishment, but those are about the only amendment I'm willing to make to our current laws.
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The only person I've heard say that is - to be specific - YOU.

Your ID you selected strongly advises how seriously we consider your messages.
 
Lord of Planar said:
A dead criminal cannot commit any more crimes.
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That is the deterence factor.

People generally do not consider the degree of punishment when committing a crime - because they don't think they will get caught. Whether it is life in prison or death penalty will not affect the number of crimes committed by 1% - OTHER than sex offenders against children and violent rapists have an extremely HIGH rate of raping again when released. The death penalty eliminated that possibility.

I would limit it to instances of highly aggravated (seriously bodily injury) and against young children however.
 
Muhammed said:
Why life in prison? So they can have plenty of captives to rape? Or what?
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So that they are physically separated from any potential victims.

And we do not become murderers.
 
Cyrylek said:
So that they are physically separated from any potential victims.
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Rape happens in prison. Just because a rapist goes to prison, that doesn't mean that he will stop raping.
 
ThePlayDrive said:
When you say things like "the incidents of rape and child molesting-rape would plummet", you need to back that up with research.

Also, I don't support the death penalty in the United States as it isn't necessary to keep the public safe. Our justice system should not be concerned with taking revenge out on people.
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I do support revenge.
 
sawyerloggingon said:
Pedophiles don't get better and they have devastated a child's life not to mention devastating the entire family.
Click to expand...

You should differentiate between pedophiles and child molesters. A pedophile, while we might find them distasteful, may go their whole life without actually acting on their desires. As long as they don't, I don't have a problem with it. As far as giving the death penalty to child molesters, I'm torn. On the one hand, I do think they deserve it (at least the really bad ones do). However, I think it would make them more likely to kill the kids they molest. If you're looking at the death penalty anyway, you might as well kill the kid, since a dead kid can't talk about what happened, and you might get away with hit.

sawyerloggingon said:
Rapist have violated a womans rights in the most despicable fashion possible and scarred her for life.
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I definitely wouldn't support the death penalty for rape unless we greatly narrowed the definition of rape. Someone who takes advantage of a woman who is passed out drunk is guilty of rape legally speaking. That person definitely did something wrong, and should be punished, but it shouldn't be grounds for the death penalty. And again, it would increase the chance of the rapist killing his victim, for the same reason.
 
joko104 said:
The only person I've heard say that is - to be specific - YOU.

Your ID you selected strongly advises how seriously we consider your messages.
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Believe it or not, I'm not here to impress you.

The idea is only rarely expressed in such strong or overt terms, but the belief that rape (in its most common and ordinary form) is an existential horror of such magnitude that it is almost impossible to recover from and must (almost necessarily) ruin the victim's life is always scratching the surface of our culture's collective thinking. Often it bubbles over in some expression or another. It compares unfavorably to that trend in India where women become suicidal because they were seen naked.

At this point in human history we ought to have more pragmatic attitudes about sex and how it relates to a person's self-respect. Assuming that we don't want to revive indentured servitude or make fines or public shaming a larger part of our justice system, the multiple-year terms of imprisonment is about where the punishment needs to be.
 
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An eye for an eye would reduce the extreme crime rates we have now and return the nation to a society where people respect one another.
 
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