• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

McCarthyism

McCarthyism should be promoted in America


  • Total voters
    45
  • Poll closed .
Huh? Fred Fisher was an associate to the law firm representing some Army officials in the hearings investigating commies in the Army. You don't know what you're talking about.

Being a member of a law firm who services are being retained by the Army does not make you a government employee. I presented him as example that McCarthy also targeted private citizens.

The alcoholism didn't begin until after his name was made into a slur. Again, you don't know what you're talking about.

Considering the episode where McCarthy got drunk and assaulted Pearson, he had a drinking problem before that.

Huh? First you post a list and use it as proof McCarthy was wrong, then you say the list doesn't exist. Which is it? Nevermind I know, the list never existed. and the nonsense you posted, not accurate.

McCarthy did not in fact have a definitive list of names of spies as he claimed in many speeches. He did however provide names to the Tydings committee and in various other circumstances, it is those names which were examined for evidence of espionage using modern records. My source is very thorough and spells it all out if you actually want to read it.
 
Nonsense, in fact there was a social cache to being a commie in certain circles. And they used popular girls, it was a recruitment tactic. Knowing guys would convert to anything to get the girl they actively recruited pretty girls (honeypot). Look, there are still people alive who were adults during that age. Before you go spouting your stuff best make sure they're all dead first so no one will know you're spinning.

In certain circles it was fine to be a communist. However, Postwar America society as a whole was highly anti-communist, as evidence by the public support for McCarthy and HUAC.

Again, you need to learn a whole lot more before you go off on subjects like this. The Japanese didn't crush the Russians, it was the Germans that nearly took Russia, but in the end the Russians crushed them and were victorious. Stalin was in power throughout the war. My goodness, never heard of Yalta?

Wrong war, slick. Cyrylek and I were discussing the conditions in Russia pre World War One, not WW2.
 
Being a member of a law firm who services are being retained by the Army does not make you a government employee. I presented him as example that McCarthy also targeted private citizens.

He wasn't on trial! He was there as part of a team representing certain Army officials. He made a snarky comment directly to McCarthy, McCarthy fired back and Fred answered the exchange with the now famous line, "'Have You No Decency, Sir?"

It would help if you knew what you were talking about.

Considering the episode where McCarthy got drunk and assaulted Pearson, he had a drinking problem before that.

Everyone was drinking before that. You really have no clue as to the times. Guess what, they were all smoking too, and indoors!

McCarthy did not in fact have a definitive list of names of spies as he claimed in many speeches. He did however provide names to the Tydings committee and in various other circumstances, it is those names which were examined for evidence of espionage using modern records. My source is very thorough and spells it all out if you actually want to read it.

I read it, I doubt it, very simple. Also read what the declassified KGB docs had to say. The truth is McCarthy's effort in the senate was canned before it exposed several long term commie spies in our government including one of Ike's aides. You do know there was a huge problem with Truman's admin being lousy with commie spies, right?
 
It is never a good thing to go after people for simply being of a particular political group. There should be proof that they are actually doing something against the US in order to justify accusations, particularly accusations from our Congress.

On a side note, I share my birth name (not completely but 2/3) with one of the most famous spies of that time.

They were accusing people in the government who had affected policy. Senate committees don't go after small fry only.
 
If you had bothered to read my link, you would it provides that information in exhaustive detail.
Cool. That's the first time I saw that information. Looks like someone did an exhaustive comparison.

Still, considering where ever McCarthy got his information from, he didn't go after anyone in the public. Only government. His list wasn't public at the time either.

I would say 9 for 159 is pretty damn good, considering he was seeing all this from a different angle Venona was. It is possible that he was correct on most or all of the remaining 150. They could have been minor players, or just suspect.

What I do recall, is everyone he publicly named, were spies.
 
They were accusing people in the government who had affected policy. Senate committees don't go after small fry only.

With no real proof that those being accused were guilty of any crimes, only that they held certain political beliefs.
 
With no real proof that those being accused were guilty of any crimes, only that they held certain political beliefs.

It was the House committee, not the Senate committee, that went after the public and innocent people. I don't think there was a single individual that the senate went after that wasn't spying on us.

I welcome to be proved wrong.
 
Recently a poster argued to me that what amounted to McCarthyism was a good thing.

Who agrees?

This is where I'm mixed...there was a real issue with Communism infiltrators and spying...McCarthy has actually been vindicated in some respects but overall pretty deplorable. It was a witch hunt. The guy was an ego maniac and the more he accused individuals of stuff the more power he got. It was a completely out of whack horribly implemented system.
 
This is where I'm mixed...there was a real issue with Communism infiltrators and spying...McCarthy has actually been vindicated in some respects but overall pretty deplorable. It was a witch hunt. The guy was an ego maniac and the more he accused individuals of stuff the more power he got. It was a completely out of whack horribly implemented system.
Who did he accuse that he was wrong about?

You want deplorable... His name is Edward R. Murrow. McCarthy was right, but he abused his media power in an attempt to destroy McCarthy, and people still today believe the propaganda. Have you seen Good Night, and Good Luck? With McCarthy's vindication, and the way the movie shows Murrow going after McCarthy, tell me... Who was the deplorable one?
 
Who did he accuse that he was wrong about?

You want deplorable... His name is Edward R. Murrow. McCarthy was right, but he abused his media power in an attempt to destroy McCarthy, and people still today believe the propaganda. Have you seen Good Night, and Good Luck? With McCarthy's vindication, and the way the movie shows Murrow going after McCarthy, tell me... Who was the deplorable one?

No you're right...there were others that did the really bad things during the period but he played a major part in stoking the communist hysteria taking place. I've never seen Good Night, and Good Luck. I don't think McCarthy acted the worst during the period but the man was more than willing to hype of the fears for political power.
 
McCarthy wasn't someone you'd probably want to hang with today, but that goes for maybe 99+% of the goobers in government at the time. He was not the head cheerleader for the anti-commie furor. Every politician up for election used that schtick. And they were all willing to use the current fear to gain political/electoral advantage - that has remained unchanged in today's politicians.

He got tarred by reporters and Hollywood - he was the goat. Again, probably not a nice guy, but he wasn't wrong and he wasn't responsible for what the house committee did.
 
No you're right...there were others that did the really bad things during the period but he played a major part in stoking the communist hysteria taking place. I've never seen Good Night, and Good Luck. I don't think McCarthy acted the worst during the period but the man was more than willing to hype of the fears for political power.
The public see the faces the media shows them, and who the TV and radio talks about. Remember, most people only had exposure the the original three. CBS, NBC, and ABC. The alphabet news networks. Many people in the 50's still didn't have TV. Only radio.
 
McCarthy wasn't someone you'd probably want to hang with today, but that goes for maybe 99+% of the goobers in government at the time. He was not the head cheerleader for the anti-commie furor. Every politician up for election used that schtick. And they were all willing to use the current fear to gain political/electoral advantage - that has remained unchanged in today's politicians.

He got tarred by reporters and Hollywood - he was the goat. Again, probably not a nice guy, but he wasn't wrong and he wasn't responsible for what the house committee did.
He was the Goat because Murrow had a personal vendetta against him, and had the infrastructure of CBS to abuse that power with.
 
I don't know about Pre-war Russia, but communists in post war America were the very definition of social pariahs.

In the pre-war Russia, communists (the Bolsheviks) were simply not a factor - they were a marginal radical group mostly busy with internal squabbles. They had 15 seats in the Fourth (1912) Duma, out of 448. But notice: they did have those seats. The Left - even the radical Left - had been increasingly integrated into the increasingly democratic decision-making process. Milyukov was not a idiot at all: there was no special reason to think that Russia is not about to join the happy family of liberal constitutional monarchies, like Britain, Sweden and the Netherlands...

communists in post war America were the very definition of social pariahs.

Kind of like the Aryan Nations now? Pobrecitos!

There is simply now way you can honestly claim that pre WW1 Russia was anywhere near the stability of post WW2 America.

Your 20/20 hindsight is duly noted. But the people who actually had to live in the 1950s had no idea they are in the Paradise. They just had experienced a Great Depression and then the most horrible war in history of the human race.

And now they were staring in the face of an enemy even more destructive and inhuman than the Nazis and the Tojo militarists. You and I both wish they would stay calm and rational, and angelically fair, under the circumstances.

But could either of us actually be that impartial? In the real life?

Russia had been crushed by Japan on the battlefield, had a revolt that forced an unwilling monarch to share power and revolutionary socialists winning a large quantity of seats in Parliament. Even without WW1, the situation was clearly a power keg.

It was "clearly" - and mistakenly - not.

The Russo-Japanese War was an imperialist adventure 99 % of Russians could not care less about.

On the level of the politically engaged 1% - Yes, it was a blow to the throne's prestige, and yes, it did help to push for the democratic reforms - very much like the Crimean War defeat did help with the liberal reforms eventually leading to the end of slavery under Alexander II.

But that's the point: Liberals, moderate (constitutional) monarchists and socialists (of the non-mass-murdering variety) did acquire a lot of political power between 1905 and 1913.

Nobody - including Lenin (mostly frolicking in France and Switzerland - thankfully, money was no object) - had anticipated the catastrophic events of 1917. It was a "red swan", so to say.

P.S. You are not quite right about the influence of the Socialist Revolutionaries in the aftermath of the 1905 troubles. In the Second Duma, they had about 40 seats; liberals (the "Constitutional Democrats" of Milyukov) has almost a hundred, and unionist Laborites had more than that. They had their moment later, after the February Revolution.
 
Last edited:
Recently a poster argued to me that what amounted to McCarthyism was a good thing.

Who agrees?

I would have to see what is meant by "what amounted to McCarthyism".

If by "McCarthyism" one meant "an appreciation for how thoroughly we were penetrated by the Soviets during the first decades of the Cold War", then count me as an ardent supporter. If by "McCarthyism" one means "having as an avatar for that appreciation a drunk with a narcissistic and/or unstable personality", count me out.
 
Your 20/20 hindsight is duly noted. But the people who actually had to live in the 1950s had no idea they are in the Paradise. They just had experienced a Great Depression and then the most horrible war in history of the human race.

And now they were staring in the face of an enemy even more destructive and inhuman than the Nazis and the Tojo militarists. You and I both wish they would stay calm and rational, and angelically fair, under the circumstances.

But could either of us actually be that impartial? In the real life?

Two Words:

Spykman. China.


The 1950's were anything but the placid time we like to wax nostalgic about. That's a product of the Baby Boomers (who were little kids then) being narcissists and thinking that reality is whatever they happen to feel about it more than it is an actual appreciation of the times.
 
Back
Top Bottom