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Do You Have a Right to a Job?

Do You Have a Right to a Job?

  • Total voters
    128
APACHERAT said:
All those jobs you see illegal aliens doing were jobs that use to be done by Americans, be it on a construction site, meat packing plant, an assembly line or flipping burgers. Most of these jobs use to be well paying jobs at one time before the illegal alien invasion. It's the illegal aliens who made these jobs undesirable and are responsible for depressing the wages in these industries. Twenty years ago I read a study where it showed that most Americans don't want to be working along side with illegal aliens. I guess today they would be called racist.

Some industries have also conducted studies in particular the construction industry. What they found was that for every five illegal aliens who entered a trade, three Americans were displaced.

The current amnesty being whispered about in Congress written behind closed doors and no input by the majority of Americans calls for increasing legal immigration from the current 1 million today to over 2 million per year and over 1 million of the visas (immigration or work visas) will be issued to unskilled and uneducated immigrants. All of these are very likely will use some form of public assistance

The 11 million (probably closer to 20 million) illegal aliens who will be rewarded amnesty for breaking our laws will eventually be able to use "family reunification" to legally bring their family members in to America. The vast majority will be uneducated and unskilled and if we look at today's immigrants they will become dependent on government. (tax payers)
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Possibly, but being around farms and other areas, they haven't been able to get people to work for a longtime now.

I doubt there will be that many. Lets face it, with Obamanomics and the possibility that someone like him will get elected next, they will be coming here for social welfare, not jobs. Those Americans seeking jobs will be sneaking across the Mexican-American border heading south looking for work because their won't be any jobs here.
 
Right to a job? No! Only the right to compete for a job.
 
APACHERAT said:
No.

Double no since it's not mentioned in the Constitution.

But there are some who believe that illegal aliens have a right to take American jobs away from citizens.
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Yea, it's enough to make you want to leave the country, give up citizenship then return as an illegal alien. :doh
 
lizzie said:
There is a distinct difference between the two concepts. The right to free speech doesn't require the input or approval of anyone else. The right to a job does. The right to seek employment would correlate more with the right to speak freely.
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The right to a job doesn't necessarially require the input of anyone else.

I can be self employed.
 
ELNOR said:
Right to a job? No! Only the right to compete for a job.
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If I own my own business who exactly am I competing with for my job?
 
soot said:
I didn't say anything about "institutions". No reason to drag them in to the discussion.

My point relates purely to the "free exercise" clause of the 1A, which we commonly refer to as "freedom of religion", and is essentially the right to freely exercise religion.

Another way to look at the matter is to say that we are at liberty to freely exercise religion.

I recomended to X Factor back in post #47 in this thread, and I'll repeat the recomendation here, that you look into the difference between a "liberty" right as opposed to a "claim" right.

A liberty right consists of the freedom to simply do or have a certain thing, a claim right consists of an obligation on others to allow or enable or ultimately provide a certain thing.

You're taking a monocular view of this topic and looking at everything as either being a claim right or not being a right at all.

I don't think that view is accurate.

The simple fact that others aren't obligated to provide you with something doesn't mean that you don't have a right (aren't at liberty) to have it.

I agree with you that nobody is required to provide me with a job (I have no rightful "claim" to a job), but that doesn't mean that I don't have a right (am not at liberty) to have a job.

If you don't want to give me a job, and the government doesn't want to give me a job, I have the right to look elsewhere, or to obtain new skills/education which make me employable, or to open my own business, with the end being to obtain a job.
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when you use the term right, it says that you can do it /have it without a higher authority.. permission.

as a privilege needs a higher authority.

any TIME the word RIGHT is used, people translate it to mean ITS THEIRS. something belongs to them.

i deal in natural rights, not things that are created out of thin air that the people or government wants, which is what democracy is, ..........and america is not a democracy be it direct or representative.
 
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DVSentinel said:
Possibly, but being around farms and other areas, they haven't been able to get people to work for a longtime now.
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When I was a kid, my mother used to take us to the farms to pick crops. I loved it because I had my own money in my pocket. now with child labor laws, parents can't do such things without having to pay a babysitter.

as for the farmers crying they can't find workers...

Supply and demand.

The workers will come if the farmers either pay more, or our family subsidy programs make people work part time to stay on assistance.
 
X Factor said:
Surfing the net, I came across this.

The Right to a job | Socialist Equality Party

Interesting point of view. What do you think? Is having a job a right?

Adding the poll right now. Answers will be yes, no and I don't know.
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Rights and obligations are two sides of the same coin. Every right implies a legally enforible obligation. To say that a person has a right to a job would imply a legally enforcible obligation for somebody to provide this job.

Legal obligations are ultimately enforced with the use of (government) violence. However, violence is only justifiable when it is used to halt or punish someone acting to harm another's body or property. Using (government) violence to force someone to provide a job, is an unjustified use of violence, as the target has not himself harmed the body or property of anyone else.
 
ernst barkmann said:
when you use the term right, it says that you can do it /have it without a higher authority permission.
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You are not guaranteed to do or have anything without the permission of a higher authority.

The collective will (or lack thereof) of society is the source of permission upon which all rights are predicated.

as a privilege needs a higher authority.
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As does a right.

any TIME the word RIGHT is used, people translate it to mean ITS THEIRS. something belongs to them.
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Rights are not posessions.

Rights are rules.

i deal in natural rights, not things that are created out of thin air that the people or government wants, which is what democracy is, ..........and america is not a democracy be it direct or representative.
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There's no such thing as a natural right, except those things that people have created out of thin air and called natural rights.

If society, or its apppointed/accepted representative in governance doesn't recognize your right then it isn't a right.
 
ELNOR said:
If you own your own business why would you be looking for a job?
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Indeed.

If I had a job (running my own business) why would I be looking for a job?
 
soot said:
Indeed.

If I had a job (running my own business) why would I be looking for a job?
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Beats me, pal, but if you find yourself unemployed you'll be competing for whatever job your applying for. Which is how it should be.
 
soot said:
You are not guaranteed to do or have anything without the permission of a higher authority.

The collective will (or lack thereof) of society is the source of permission upon which all rights are predicated.
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sorry no, i have freedom to act on my natural rights without government., i need government approval when it comes to privileges.

america is not a collective society, in the sense of our rights, rights are individual, the founders state that plainly.

if america were a democracy with democratic government you would be correct, however america is a republic with republican government, and rights are not collective.

federalist 63--The true distinction between these and the American governments, lies in the total exclusion of the people, in their collective capacity, from any share in the latter, and not in the total exclusion of the representatives of the people from the administration of the former.


soot said:
As does a right.
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incorrect, i dont need government approval to speak my mind.



soot said:
Rights are not posessions.

Rights are rules.
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rights are inherent, they are not dispensed by governments or the people, you have natural rights, ...........not civil, not human rights.



soot said:
There's no such thing as a natural right, except those things that people have created out of thin air and called natural rights.

If society, or its apppointed/accepted representative in governance doesn't recognize your right then it isn't a right.
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yes there are stated by he founders, rights which are natural to the body.

my rights existed before the creation of the constitution or the federal goverment, the constitution does not give or grants rights, it only reaffirms them , any government ending /restricting my rights are violating the supreme law.

The Preamble to The Bill of Rights

Congress of the United States
begun and held at the City of New-York, on
Wednesday the fourth of March, one thousand seven hundred and eighty nine.

THE Conventions of a number of the States, having at the time of their adopting the Constitution, expressed a desire, in order to prevent misconstruction or abuse of its powers, that further declaratory and restrictive clauses should be added: And as extending the ground of public confidence in the Government, will best ensure the beneficent ends of its institution.

governments have no authority over rights!

The first ten amendments are "declaratory and restrictive clauses". This means they supersede all other parts of our Constitution and restrict the powers of our government and the rest of the Constitution, and the Constitution restricts the powers of government.
 
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The Constitution and only the Constitution is the mantra of the Federalists/Rogue Right until it isn't.
Then you folks are "loose" constrictionists and want to rewrite the rules.

APACHERAT said:
John Jay was a Federalist. He also was a patriot and one of the founding fathers of our nation.

Re: John Jay and the Constitution and "the Law of Nations, it can be found here-> jilp.law.ucdavis.edu/issues/Volume%2014.../paust%20final%20pdf.p...
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I'm on the other side of the equation. I'm an employer. So I read this as "Does anyone have the right to force me to employ somebody?" The answer there would be no. While there are undoubtedly some qualified people out there there are are some who are barely able to bathe themselves too. If there is no demand for the services of idiots I don't see why I would have to pay them.
 
tech30528 said:
I'm on the other side of the equation. I'm an employer. So I read this as "Does anyone have the right to force me to employ somebody?" The answer there would be no. While there are undoubtedly some qualified people out there there are are some who are barely able to bathe themselves too. If there is no demand for the services of idiots I don't see why I would have to pay them.
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no one has the power to force you hire someone, or make you perform an action unless you commit a crime.

Section 1.
Neither slavery nor involuntary servitude, except as a punishment for crime whereof the party shall have been duly convicted, shall exist within the United States, or any place subject to their jurisdiction
 
ELNOR said:
Yea, it's enough to make you want to leave the country, give up citizenship then return as an illegal alien. :doh
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I've thought about it. I'll denounce my American citizenship. Head to TJ and see if the Blue Ox Cafe is still in business and catch the "Donkey Show." When the sun sets I'll illegally cross the border as an "undocumented Democrat." I'll also will be considered to be a "protected group" so if those gringos call me a wetback or an illegal alien they will be labeled as racist.

I'll make my way to a sanctuary city like Los Angeles and drop by MacArthur Park and purchase a social security card in which the SS number will actually belong to an America. But being one of the "protected groups" I don't have to worry about being prosecuted for identity theft where as an American would be prosecuted and be sent to prison.

Have to purchase a green card and three or five drivers licenses all under different alias names. Never use your real name when your an illegal alien in America. If I get busted for a crime, I just don't show up in court and never use that name again.

Even illegal aliens get horny. Time to find an illegal alien of the opposite sex. Pop out an anchor baby and it's like coming across a gold mine. Food stamps, HUD subsidized housing. WICS, ADC. Have to apply for a Tax Payers ID Number so I can get that Earned Income Tax Credit.

Well I could use one of my alias ID's and get a job flipping burgers or I could stand in front of Home Depot and become a day labor and make $20. an hour cash under the table, no taxes !!!

And when I get to old to work the Democrats should just about be ready to pass another amnesty. I'll be rewarded with a green card and can apply for Social Security Retirement Benefits even though I didn't pay in to the system.

Conclusion, those American gringos are so stupid.
 
X Factor said:
Surfing the net, I came across this.



The Right to a job | Socialist Equality Party

Interesting point of view. What do you think? Is having a job a right?

Adding the poll right now. Answers will be yes, no and I don't know.
Click to expand...

Nice debate going on here.

What I find humorous is that Socialists who write this drivel never say that they have to give an honest day's work for the income they earn. Most likely if you mention that those paying them get their money's worth, they will accuse you of being an 'exploiter of the working classes', or some such nonsense.
 
If I try to, I'll only get more explosive.
Actually I'm emptying myself of 6 weeks of not posting.
I get sick of listening to the phonies on the right speaking as if they "know" the Constitution.
It depends on the issue with them, like "God".
I love the word "Creator". There is no need to expand on it, as righties would say about their issues.

I don't believe you are one of the phonies.
Your stuff is worth reading.
I still keep up with reading when I go back to teaching after this week and spring break.
I have too much work to post though.
ernst barkmann said:
can you rephrase that...
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Being a socialist is better than being a Rogue Rightie Rewriting truth.
How bad is the current Gilded Age from 1-10?
 
NIMBY said:
If I try to, I'll only get more explosive.
Actually I'm emptying myself of 6 weeks of not posting.
I get sick of listening to the phonies on the right speaking as if they "know" the Constitution.
It depends on the issue with them, like "God".
I love the word "Creator". There is no need to expand on it, as righties would say about their issues.

I don't believe you are one of the phonies.
Your stuff is worth reading.
I still keep up with reading when I go back to teaching after this week and spring break.
I have too much work to post though.
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the creator is subjective to the reader, it simply means that the founders ,say rights come from a higher authority than government, and since government do not grants rights, they have no power to take them from you.
 
APACHERAT said:
I've thought about it. I'll denounce my American citizenship. Head to TJ and see if the Blue Ox Cafe is still in business and catch the "Donkey Show." When the sun sets I'll illegally cross the border as an "undocumented Democrat." I'll also will be considered to be a "protected group" so if those gringos call me a wetback or an illegal alien they will be labeled as racist.

I'll make my way to a sanctuary city like Los Angeles and drop by MacArthur Park and purchase a social security card in which the SS number will actually belong to an America. But being one of the "protected groups" I don't have to worry about being prosecuted for identity theft where as an American would be prosecuted and be sent to prison.

Have to purchase a green card and three or five drivers licenses all under different alias names. Never use your real name when your an illegal alien in America. If I get busted for a crime, I just don't show up in court and never use that name again.

Even illegal aliens get horny. Time to find an illegal alien of the opposite sex. Pop out an anchor baby and it's like coming across a gold mine. Food stamps, HUD subsidized housing. WICS, ADC. Have to apply for a Tax Payers ID Number so I can get that Earned Income Tax Credit.

Well I could use one of my alias ID's and get a job flipping burgers or I could stand in front of Home Depot and become a day labor and make $20. an hour cash under the table, no taxes !!!

And when I get to old to work the Democrats should just about be ready to pass another amnesty. I'll be rewarded with a green card and can apply for Social Security Retirement Benefits even though I didn't pay in to the system.

Conclusion, those American gringos are so stupid.
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Good afternoon, Apacherat! :2wave:

You are to commended for your well thought out plan of action! Kudos... :lamo:
 
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