• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

The divide between the rich and the rest

How serious a problem is the divide between the wealthy and the rest of us?

  • Not a problem at all.

    Votes: 32 29.4%

  • A problem, but not a serious one.

    Votes: 8 7.3%

  • A fairly serious problem.

    Votes: 34 31.2%

  • It's not just a "problem." It's a catastrophe that is only getting worse.

    Votes: 35 32.1%

  • This divide does not exist.

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Total voters
    109
American said:
Really, tell us how the trickle up economics is working in Russia.
Click to expand...

Russia has one of the lowest tax rates in the industrialised world. The shape of the Russian economy is very far gone from the Soviet days, for better and for worse.
 
mpg said:
Concentrated power has always been the enemy of liberty.

Ronald Reagan
Click to expand...

Why do I find myself agreeing so often with Reagan's quotes and yet find so many of his presidential policies abhorrent?
 
Geoist said:
Why do I find myself agreeing so often with Reagan's quotes and yet find so many of his presidential policies abhorrent?
Click to expand...

Because he was a two-faced jackass. While he was saying all those pretty speeches about perseverance and the American spirit, he was balls deep in backroom deals with what would now be called terrorists.
 
Phys251 said:
How serious a problem is the wealth gap between the wealthy and the rest of us?
Click to expand...

To me, it's not an issue, because I have no envy for the wealthy. I work my job, to pay my bills and have a little fun in my life, and I had the foresight to choose a profession with great job security. The reason the gap is getting wider is because we have a significantly higher percentage of the population living on government-funded subsistence. This will, by necessity, place more people in the lower income class category. Well, that, and the fact that we've shipped so much of our manufacturing overseas.
 
American said:
Really, tell us how the trickle up economics is working in Russia.
Click to expand...


"Trickle up economics in Russia"? Seriously? What are you talking about? The 'free market' is working just fine in Russian for those who are on top, never mind the 99.9% who are suffering more today than they did during the time of the Soviet Union.

Russia saw virtually no increase in life expectancy from 1990 to 2010 and lagged behind more than 100 countries in the key health statistic over that period, according to a global study released Tuesday.

Read more: Life Expectancy in Russia Is Stagnant, Study Says | News | The Moscow Times
The Moscow Times
Click to expand...
 
Tigger said:
It is an issue, but not for the reason that most would expect..... It's an issue because the bottom portion of this nation's citizenry have neglected their end of the social bargain. They no longer want to even try to better themselves. They slide further down into the cesspool of humanity, allowing the rich to get further and further away from them and then expect the middle and upper classes to "save" them from themselves. Sorry, not interested.
Click to expand...


Your beliefs don't make it true
 
DA60 said:
I know that - but if enough of the masses demanded that there were no more bailouts, there would be no more bailouts.
Click to expand...

"Bailouts" aren't the problem. America's problem is a refusal to penalise those who have benefited most greatly by exploiting the political system as it presently operates.

One example: Who is more deserving of the death penalty: One guy in Boston who helped kill three people or the owner of a fertiliser plant in Texas that killed 15 people? How about the Texas politicians who allowed a plant that created explosive materials to be built across the street from residences, a middle school and a high school - because they believe in the free market and think any type of zoning codes are an imposition of capitalists?
 
Somerville said:
"Bailouts" aren't the problem. America's problem is a refusal to penalise those who have benefited most greatly by exploiting the political system as it presently operates.

One example: Who is more deserving of the death penalty: One guy in Boston who helped kill three people or the owner of a fertiliser plant in Texas that killed 15 people? How about the Texas politicians who allowed a plant that created explosive materials to be built across the street from residences, a middle school and a high school - because they believe in the free market and think any type of zoning codes are an imposition of capitalists?
Click to expand...

You want to give the death penalty to the owner of the West fertilizer plant?

Okaaaaay...welcome to China.


You have a nice day now.
 
Dragonfly said:
Huge issue that could one day lead to the next civil war.

As fewer and fewer get more and more, while the vast majority fall out of the middle class and into the lower class....emotions and anger will increase by orders of magnitude.

Without a strong middle class - it's only a matter of time before the power keg goes off.
Click to expand...

Even if it's 99% versus the 1%, good luck with your pitchforks versus the weapons of mass destruction the rich can afford.
 
Geoist said:
The real issue is privilege.
Click to expand...

I think it's more like the lower-class confusing rights with privileges and equal opportunity with equal outcome.
 
Mathematician said:
Even if it's 99% versus the 1%, good luck with your pitchforks versus the weapons of mass destruction the rich can afford.
Click to expand...

You're assuming the potential operators delivering the mass destruction would be willing to fire...
 
specklebang said:
It's a serious problem for the rich.

They have to worry if their money is earning enough return. The have to keep up appearances. They have to make sure the Maybach and the Lear jet have leather that matches and isn't a different dye lot. They have to hire people to hire people to hire people to maintain multiple homes. They can't have real friends or trust anyone. No matter how many people the screw over they still can't be as rich as Carlos Slim, a Mexican.

I feel sorry for them. Their only real use is to keep all this excess money from causing inflation.
Click to expand...

that's up there in the hall of fame of really really stupid posts
 
Mathematician said:
Even if it's 99% versus the 1%, good luck with your pitchforks versus the weapons of mass destruction the rich can afford.
Click to expand...

NO matter what happens
what we have got
is the MAXIM gun
And they have not


(Brit journalist discussing native uprisings"
 
Explain the basis for your uncomplimentary statement. Am I wrong? Or are you just in a bad mood today?



TurtleDude said:
that's up there in the hall of fame of really really stupid posts
Click to expand...
 
Somerville said:
"Bailouts" aren't the problem. America's problem is a refusal to penalise those who have benefited most greatly by exploiting the political system as it presently operates.

One example: Who is more deserving of the death penalty: One guy in Boston who helped kill three people or the owner of a fertiliser plant in Texas that killed 15 people? How about the Texas politicians who allowed a plant that created explosive materials to be built across the street from residences, a middle school and a high school - because they believe in the free market and think any type of zoning codes are an imposition of capitalists?
Click to expand...

Or the volunteer firefighters who may have used water on a fire in an industrial facility, possibly causing the release of explosive gases when water hit some of the otherwise stable chemicals. Since all is not know, why don't we wait and find out what really happened before deciding to blame anyone. BTW, Texas towns do have zoning codes. Whether the town of West had any or not, due to it's small size, I cannot say. Also, the facility was first built in 1962. How many of those people are still alive anyways and exactly what was next to it at the time it was built? Were the residences, middle school and high school there in 1962 or were they build across the street from the Fertilizer plant. Also, if people don't own fertilizer plants, how would farmers get fertilizer to grow your food?

While your busy fuming about how many people died in an industrial accident you want to blame on capitalism, perhaps you should use that time to look up the number of people that have died or were harmed by industrial complexes in socialist countries. Maybe start with Chernobyl.
 
specklebang said:
Explain the basis for your uncomplimentary statement. Am I wrong? Or are you just in a bad mood today?
Click to expand...

you are making an idiotic stereotype

most of us who are rich (using the obama definition or even the top one percent)

don't have lear jets

don't have multiple homes

don't have people watching people who watch our homes

have plenty of friends

trust plenty of people

don't give a damn or even know who that Mexican guy is

and don't screw over people anymore than anyone else

your post demonstrates a savage combination of jealousy and stereotyping silliness
 
Phys251 said:
How serious a problem is the wealth gap between the wealthy and the rest of us?
Click to expand...

It's not a problem - because the lives of the rich don't impact your life or my life in any way - at all.
 
most of us who are rich (using the obama definition or even the top one percent)
•••Having a few million dollars makes you well off, not rich.

don't have lear jets
•••so, don't include yourself in my statement

don't have multiple homes
•••so, don't include yourself in my statement

don't have people watching people who watch our homes
•••so, don't include yourself in my statement

have plenty of friends
•••so, don't include yourself in my statement

trust plenty of people
•••so, don't include yourself in my statement

don't give a damn or even know who that Mexican guy is
•••Richest man in the world. Don't be proud of ignorance. Read Forbes sometimes.

and don't screw over people anymore than anyone else
•••so, don't include yourself in my statement

your post demonstrates a savage combination of jealousy and stereotyping silliness
•••Jealousy of who? What makes you think I'm jealous?


TurtleDude said:
you are making an idiotic stereotype

most of us who are rich (using the obama definition or even the top one percent)

don't have lear jets

don't have multiple homes

don't have people watching people who watch our homes

have plenty of friends

trust plenty of people

don't give a damn or even know who that Mexican guy is

and don't screw over people anymore than anyone else

your post demonstrates a savage combination of jealousy and stereotyping silliness
Click to expand...
 
your definition of rich is silly given that your master Obama considers anyone making over 200k a year rich

I know lots of rich people. In fact I personally know at least 150 millionaires. few if any come close to the people you describe. I suspect a bunch of them have summer homes. A couple have planes-not lear jets

all of them are fairly popular,

the rest is nonsense

where did you get this silly list

Daily Kos?
 
DVSentinel said:
Or the volunteer firefighters who may have used water on a fire in an industrial facility, possibly causing the release of explosive gases when water hit some of the otherwise stable chemicals. Since all is not know, why don't we wait and find out what really happened before deciding to blame anyone. BTW, Texas towns do have zoning codes. Whether the town of West had any or not, due to it's small size, I cannot say. Also, the facility was first built in 1962. How many of those people are still alive anyways and exactly what was next to it at the time it was built? Were the residences, middle school and high school there in 1962 or were they build across the street from the Fertilizer plant. Also, if people don't own fertilizer plants, how would farmers get fertilizer to grow your food?

While your busy fuming about how many people died in an industrial accident you want to blame on capitalism, perhaps you should use that time to look up the number of people that have died or were harmed by industrial complexes in socialist countries. Maybe start with Chernobyl.
Click to expand...


Water being sprayed on the tank which contained anhydrous ammonia is the recommended procedure. There was no "stable chemical" affected by the presence of water at the plant in West, Texas.

Neal Langerman, a chemist with the San Diego-based consulting company called Advanced Chemical Safety, speculated the explosion in West happened this way:

Anhydrous ammonia tanks are never more than 85 percent filled with the liquid chemical. The other 15 percent of the space is taken up by ammonia in gas form. When the fire got to the tanks it heated the part of the tank over the gas bubble to the point where it melted.

At that point, Langerman said, the gas would have escaped and been ignited by the fire, which was well over the 1204 F ignition temperature. The liquid ammonia in the tank would then have vaporized, escaped and caught fire too--all in the fraction of a second.

“The explosive release of the ammonia--both gas and liquid--would have very quickly transitioned to an actual detonation,” said Langerman, who has also served as an official of the American Chemical Society.

In fires that threaten stores of anhydrous ammonia the strategy is to spray water on the tanks to keep them cool enough so that the metal doesn’t melt. Rising pressure inside the tanks blows out relief valves, which allows the contents to vent and burn in a controlled way. All that, however, must be done from a safe distance.

“What the standard says is: You back off, up to a mile if necessary, and you only apply water remotely. You get your people out of there,” Langerman said.

The three key questions at this point are: Where did the fire start? Was West Fertilizer operating the depot according to standards? Did the firefighters recognize the particular risk of stored anhydrous ammonia?
Click to expand...

Who is to blame then for allowing residences to be built next to the fertiliser plant, or the plant being built next to residences? In either instance, the reasoning behind the actions was based on free market capitalism - which says, "I own this land and I can do what I wish - because it is mine."

Texas Explosion Seen as Sign of Weak U.S. Oversight
The Texas plant that was the scene of a deadly explosion this week was last inspected by the Occupational Safety and Health Administration in 1985. The risk plan it filed with regulators listed no flammable chemicals. And it was cleared to hold many times the ammonium nitrate that was used in the Oklahoma City bombing.
Click to expand...
Wow, that overbearing government with all of its oppressive regulations and business-destroying actions, you just can't beat 'em. :roll:
 
Phys251 said:
How serious a problem is the wealth gap between the wealthy and the rest of us?
Click to expand...

It's the establishment of the true Aristocracy.
 
Dragonfly said:
Huge issue that could one day lead to the next civil war.

As fewer and fewer get more and more, while the vast majority fall out of the middle class and into the lower class....emotions and anger will increase by orders of magnitude.

Without a strong middle class - it's only a matter of time before the power keg goes off.
Click to expand...

Except none of that is true. The rich aren't getting richer. They usually lose their wealth within 3 generations. Most of today's wealthy did not start off that way. IT is just the same old myth the democrats have been peddling since Andrew Jackson.
 
How serious a problem is the wealth gap between the wealthy and the rest of us?
Click to expand...

I think it could become serious, if it isn't already. Last two or three elections I've seen more money thrown at candidates than ever before. How can average people compete with that kind of money without pandering to money? Rich people are buying the elections. That could be very serious and damaging to the future of our democracy if it's allowed to continue on it's current course.

Imo, the problem isn't so much between the rich and the poor per se as it is between urban people vs rural and sub-rural people.
 
specklebang said:
It's a serious problem for the rich.

They have to worry if their money is earning enough return. The have to keep up appearances. They have to make sure the Maybach and the Lear jet have leather that matches and isn't a different dye lot. They have to hire people to hire people to hire people to maintain multiple homes. They can't have real friends or trust anyone. No matter how many people the screw over they still can't be as rich as Carlos Slim, a Mexican.

I feel sorry for them. Their only real use is to keep all this excess money from causing inflation.
Click to expand...

:lamo:lamo That has to be the best post of the day.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom