Is it time to end the Cuban Embargo?

[Smeagol]

Is it time to end the Cuban Embargo? Should it be ended but with conditions such as tariffs on Cuban imports and fees to protect the US tourism industry from new competition as vacationers may want to see Cuba rather than the Keys, Puerto Rico or the Virgin Islands for their next tropical snowbird winter getaway?

FYI: To bring a little political dynamic light to the issue, the Cuban embargo continues to this day due in large part to political pressure from the Cuban-American exile community in Florida. Because of resentment toward John F. Kennedy over his backing out of the Bay Of Pigs invasion while it was in progress and later to a smaller extent resentment toward Bill Clinton over his handling of the Elian Gonzalez case, the Cuban-American exile community in Florida is a reliable Republican voting block and the only solid Hispanic GOP voting block. Depending upon which side the Republican party is seen lining up on this issue, it could sway the Cuban-American exile community away from the GOP, cost the GOP Congressional seats and potentially the White House in future years with the third largest Electoral College prize and largest of the swing states.

 

[TheDemSocialist]

Yes. It never should of been put in place to begin with. Its time to do away with that embargo, its purpose was to weaken Castro and cause uprising against their economy and the Castro regime, that failed and it has failed from the beginning. If anything it has strengthened the Cuban people and the Castro's.

 

[earthworm]

Well stated, ...........Socialist.
We reacted, back in the day...a half century ago out of fear.
That is not the way to do things.

 

[Rainman05]

Why bother. People like JayZ and beyonce can just ignore the embargo and go to Cuba whenever they want ignoring the US rules about travelling to Cuba.

Its not like the USA has any means to enforce their laws.


Economically, meh, who cares. The US can't really benefit a lot from its trade with Cuba except maybe coffee...

 

[MoSurveyor]

For me it's got nothing to do with "Communism" and more to do with human rights. If they manage to meet the UN criteria some day then, sure, why not sell them some food and machinery in exchange for coffee, tobacco, and nickel? Until they do, screw 'em.

 

[Carjosse]

For me it's got nothing to do with "Communism" and more to do with human rights. If they manage to meet the UN criteria some day then, sure, why not sell them some food and machinery in exchange for coffee, tobacco, and nickel? Until they do, screw 'em.

Wouldn't trading with a country like the U.S. just hasten that process.

 

[MoSurveyor]

Wouldn't trading with a country like the U.S. just hasten that process.

I don't see how - but I'm willing to listen.

 

[Dragonfly]

For me it's got nothing to do with "Communism" and more to do with human rights. If they manage to meet the UN criteria some day then, sure, why not sell them some food and machinery in exchange for coffee, tobacco, and nickel? Until they do, screw 'em.

So how do you feel about the USofA crawling deeply into bed with China, Saudi Arabia, Pakistan,..........

In other words.... totally lame justification of grand hypocrisy if that's the reason.

 

[MoSurveyor]

So how do you feel about the USofA crawling deeply into bed with China, Saudi Arabia, Pakistan,..........

In other words.... totally lame justification of grand hypocrisy if that's the reason.

Did we not allow trade with them? And if we didn't allow it, did their governmental policies change before we decided to start trading with them?


And, actually, I'm not particularly happy about many things our "trading partners" do.

 

[Helix]

it's past time. should have ended it a long time ago.

 

[Carjosse]

I don't see how - but I'm willing to listen.

Well it will let them see North American culture in the products they import thus making them embrace ideas like democracy and freedom. When you import goods form America you import culture and values. Canada has a good relation but the only thing we send to Cuba is a crapton of tourists.

 

[Master PO]

Well it will let them see North American culture in the products they import thus making them embrace ideas like democracy and freedom. When you import goods form America you import culture and values. Canada has a good relation but the only thing we send to Cuba is a crapton of tourists.

although i hate communism, i dont like the idea of exporting democracy .........which is another vile form of government....lets export ...true republican government.

but i do feel that opening up free markets to Cuba, will bring down communism in that country.

 

[cpwill]

When the Castros are gone and their replacements open up their governance so as to extend rights to their people... sure.

 

[cpwill]

although i hate communism, i dont like the idea of exporting democracy .........which is another vile form of government....lets export ...true republican government.

but i do feel that opening up free markets to Cuba, will bring down communism in that country.

How's that working with China, Saudi Arabia, et al?

I used to think the same, mind you. But increasingly I find the evidence simply doesn't support that conclusion.

 

[Thrilla]

Yes. It never should of been put in place to begin with. Its time to do away with that embargo, its purpose was to weaken Castro and cause uprising against their economy and the Castro regime, that failed and it has failed from the beginning. If anything it has strengthened the Cuban people and the Castro's.

what would you have done if you were in power at the time?...... keep in mind that the Castro regime just nationalized US properties and businesses without compensation.( which is the very reason the embargo began)....

let's see how you would serve your citizens in the face of the livelihoods, their property, and their businesses being stolen by Castro

 

[Master PO]

How's that working with China, Saudi Arabia, et al?

I used to think the same, mind you. But increasingly I find the evidence simply doesn't support that conclusion.

china is still communist, but they have had to relax and give a little more freedom to the people to allow commerce to expand in china...granted its not perfect.

but Cuba is not china either, they are giving in a style to the 60's and 70's there...backwards.

when you allow commerce to flow, and for it to work , some freedom have to be expanded, or its not going to work.

to me its something which would take time, but the embargo is not working.

why do we deal with communist china, and deny communist Cuba?

 

[cpwill]

china is still communist, but they have had to relax and give a little more freedom to the people to allow commerce to expand in china...granted its not perfect.

The theory was that the rise of a middle class would require that they demand political power to match their economic power - a theory which now that I look back on it I think someone got from Marx. China opened up under Deng Xiaoping without us, and cracked down after Tiannamen despite us. Our trade with them has done nothing (that I can see) to make it's people freer, and has served to provide economic stability and long-life to a horrific and abusive regime.

when you allow commerce to flow, and for it to work , some freedom have to be expanded, or its not going to work.

Other than complete totalitarian state-allocated control over every resource? Yes. But that's hardly much of a baseline.

 

[Master PO]

The theory was that the rise of a middle class would require that they demand political power to match their economic power - a theory which now that I look back on it I think someone got from Marx. China opened up under Deng Xiaoping without us, and cracked down after Tiannamen despite us. Our trade with them has done nothing (that I can see) to make it's people freer, and has served to provide economic stability and long-life to a horrific and abusive regime.



Other than complete totalitarian state-allocated control over every resource? Yes. But that's hardly much of a baseline.

i not going to stake, what i believe as fact, its just how i think, ..you could be correct in your opinon of the situation.

but i dont see much changing over the last 54 years in our relationship with Cuba.

 

[cpwill]

i not going to stake, what i believe as fact, its just how i think, ..you could be correct in your opinon of the situation.

but i dont see much changing over the last 54 years in our relationship with Cuba.

I would agree. The only difference is that we are not the ones propping up that particular set of abuses. We prop other sadistic, bloody ****'s, but at least that one isn't on the list.

 

[Smeagol]

it's past time. should have ended it a long time ago.

I would like to visit their but I am concerned about cheap completion for tourism dollars when our fellow Americans are struggling in Puerto Rico and the Virgin Islands. Plus florida's citrus and surgar industries could take a hit. At the same time I'm conflicted over competition because there's a part of me that believes after the initial adjustment most competition helps everybody.

That all said, I feel for the Cuban people.

 

[DVSentinel]

No. It shouldn't end until they give up socialism/communism. We should not only continue there, unless they make concessions like China did, but we should increase it for any country that subjects it's people to the slavery of socialism instead of allowing freedom.

 

[Dragonfly]

No. It shouldn't end until they give up socialism/communism. We should not only continue there, unless they make concessions like China did, but we should increase it for any country that subjects it's people to the slavery of socialism instead of allowing freedom.

I love how people throw out the "communism/socialism" thing like it's nuclear-cancer that's contagious just by virtue of thinking about it.

What concessions has China made?

What if the people of Cuba are completely content with their form of government?
Maybe they're all happy?

Why can't we do business with them and sell things to them? Why can't we take their money?
Will we catch communist cooties from it?

Maybe the best way to defeat communism is to simply help them see a "better" way by interacting with them.

Obviously trying to ignore them and act like they don't exist isn't doing anything.


I just don't get what the "fear" is.

 

[Helix]

I would like to visit their but I am concerned about cheap completion for tourism dollars when our fellow Americans are struggling in Puerto Rico and the Virgin Islands. Plus florida's citrus and surgar industries could take a hit. At the same time I'm conflicted over competition because there's a part of me that believes after the initial adjustment most competition helps everybody.

That all said, I feel for the Cuban people.

I always argue that the cure for oppressive regimes is blue jeans and rock and roll. when people start seeing what they are missing out on, those who are keeping them from it tend to get tossed out.

 

[Dr. Chuckles]

So how do you feel about the USofA crawling deeply into bed with China, Saudi Arabia, Pakistan,..........

In other words.... totally lame justification of grand hypocrisy if that's the reason.

those relations exist out of necessity, not choice. It's like dealing with my boss, despite thinking he's an asshole, but not dealing with another asshole that I have no such obligation to.

 

[upsideguy]

For me it's got nothing to do with "Communism" and more to do with human rights. If they manage to meet the UN criteria some day then, sure, why not sell them some food and machinery in exchange for coffee, tobacco, and nickel? Until they do, screw 'em.

Thank you, Jimmy Carter. I'm not sure I have seen human rights as the foundation of foreign policy in 40 years. That said, though Cuba is near the bottom of the barrel on human rights, we have relationships with nations further down the spectrum. The US isn't exactly lilly-white on the subject itself. Sorry, this sounds like rationalization.

Country Ranking Table 2007
http://maplecroft.com/docs/serve/human_rights_risk_index_2012_poster/
http://www.hrw.org/sites/default/files/reports/wr2012.pdf

Why bother. People like JayZ and beyonce can just ignore the embargo and go to Cuba whenever they want ignoring the US rules about travelling to Cuba.

Its not like the USA has any means to enforce their laws.


Economically, meh, who cares. The US can't really benefit a lot from its trade with Cuba except maybe coffee...

Why don't you research the basis of their trip and re-post. Your argument is stronger when its based on real facts rather than your perception of the facts. When your perceptions are wrong, as they are here, well, you don't really have a credible argument.

They had permission to make the trip.

http://patterico.com/2013/04/09/beyonce-and-jay-z-had-official-permission-to-travel-to-cuba/