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Is it time to end the Cuban Embargo?

Should the Cuban Embargo be ended?

  • No. We cannot cooperate in making Communism successful 90 miles from the US coast

    Votes: 4 9.8%

  • Yes. Its time to end the Cuban Embargo.

    Votes: 31 75.6%

  • Yes, but with limits, restrictions and tarrifs.

    Votes: 5 12.2%

  • Yes, but lets do it with democrats in power owning the backlash from the Cuban exile community.

    Votes: 1 2.4%
  • Total voters
    41
DVSentinel said:
No. It shouldn't end until they give up socialism/communism. We should not only continue there, unless they make concessions like China did, but we should increase it for any country that subjects it's people to the slavery of socialism instead of allowing freedom.
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Let the embargo on Norway and Sweden begin. (People have to stop using socialism and communism in the same breath. They are NOT the same thing.)
 
upsideguy said:
Thank you, Jimmy Carter. I'm not sure I have seen human rights as the foundation of foreign policy in 40 years. That said, though Cuba is near the bottom of the barrel on human rights, we have relationships with nations further down the spectrum. The US isn't exactly lilly-white on the subject itself. Sorry, this sounds like rationalization.

Country Ranking Table 2007
http://maplecroft.com/docs/serve/human_rights_risk_index_2012_poster/
http://www.hrw.org/sites/default/files/reports/wr2012.pdf
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those relations usually serve a strategic purpose.
 
Dr. Chuckles said:
those relations usually serve a strategic purpose.
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Most of the "strategic purpose" is based on profit for private interests. To date, the only reason we haven't dropped the Cuban embargo is based on internal politics, not rational thinking. It has political momentum, but that momentum is eroding fast. Its silliness of the highest order.

The US is a lone wolf in its obstinence. Meanwhile, our Canadian friends enjoy Cuban resorts and Cuban cigars and other benefits of trade with Cuba.
 
upsideguy said:
Most of the "strategic purpose" is based on profit for private interests.
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lol, yes, I'm sure there are all manner of ghoulish interpretations we can throw out there, but that doesn't establish anything as fact, nor does it actually address anything I wrote


To date, the only reason we haven't dropped the Cuban embargo is based on internal politics, not rational thinking.
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Then you should probably look for a better argument than pointing to our dealings with the Saudis, because it's a rather weak rationalization
 
upsideguy said:
Let the embargo on Norway and Sweden begin. (People have to stop using socialism and communism in the same breath. They are NOT the same thing.)
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Reread your Marx. Socialism is the transition steps to communism. Yes, some want to stop at the socialism phase and not "progress" to communism, but they are indeed part of the same socio-economic theory.
 
Dragonfly said:
I love how people throw out the "communism/socialism" thing like it's nuclear-cancer that's contagious just by virtue of thinking about it.

What concessions has China made?

What if the people of Cuba are completely content with their form of government?
Maybe they're all happy?

Why can't we do business with them and sell things to them? Why can't we take their money?
Will we catch communist cooties from it?

Maybe the best way to defeat communism is to simply help them see a "better" way by interacting with them.

Obviously trying to ignore them and act like they don't exist isn't doing anything.


I just don't get what the "fear" is.
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While not a "nuclear cancer" it is indeed a cancer to the species called humans.

Under G.H. Bush (Bush sr. to some) China conceded to "capitalist zones" in their country to keep their trade status with the US. This allowed foreign/private ownership of economic instruments and is the key to their current economic "success".

We shouldn't do business with them because instead of promoting socialism as something that works it encourages the spread. By us doing business with them, we would be giving false data on how socialism really works. Just like China was an economic/social failure prior to capitalist zones being established, any country choosing socialism should suffer the depredations of socialism without receiving any benefits from those who practice some form capitalism.

Further, socialism being an ideal which ends in theft and slavery is the enemy of freedom. If you believe in freedom, then socialism is your enemy and any business done with socialist only provides benefits to your enemy. That is why I don't even buy products that I know are built in union shops or come from liberal states.

Fear has nothing to do with it. An enemy is an enemy and should not be given aid, comfort or any kind of help but should be encouraged to wither and die on their own if possible or destroyed militarily if necessary.
 
Smeagol said:
Is it time to end the Cuban Embargo? Should it be ended but with conditions such as tariffs on Cuban imports and fees to protect the US tourism industry from new competition as vacationers may want to see Cuba rather than the Keys, Puerto Rico or the Virgin Islands for their next tropical snowbird winter getaway?

FYI: To bring a little political dynamic light to the issue, the Cuban embargo continues to this day due in large part to political pressure from the Cuban-American exile community in Florida. Because of resentment toward John F. Kennedy over his backing out of the Bay Of Pigs invasion while it was in progress and later to a smaller extent resentment toward Bill Clinton over his handling of the Elian Gonzalez case, the Cuban-American exile community in Florida is a reliable Republican voting block and the only solid Hispanic GOP voting block. Depending upon which side the Republican party is seen lining up on this issue, it could sway the Cuban-American exile community away from the GOP, cost the GOP Congressional seats and potentially the White House in future years with the third largest Electoral College prize and largest of the swing states.
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Yes it is time!!! We as the American people deserve to easily obtain quality Cuban rum!!
 
Thrilla said:
what would you have done if you were in power at the time?...... keep in mind that the Castro regime just nationalized US properties and businesses without compensation.( which is the very reason the embargo began)....

let's see how you would serve your citizens in the face of the livelihoods, their property, and their businesses being stolen by Castro
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I would respect a countries sovereignty and not put in power an embargo, and realize the world is not my countries and my countries corporations playground.
 
Dr. Chuckles said:
those relations usually serve a strategic purpose.
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So we're whores then? That's what you're saying?

Screw (no pun intended) morality and doing what's right, if it's for the almighty dollar, or for the "good" of 'merika, we'll dive down the deepest sewer imaginable, but if they got nothin' we want.... we'll play all high and mighty just for show?
 
DVSentinel said:
Fear has nothing to do with it. An enemy is an enemy and should not be given aid, comfort or any kind of help but should be encouraged to wither and die on their own if possible or destroyed militarily if necessary.
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Actually - your whole post smacks of fear.

Cuba is not our "enemy" for god's sakes.

We have nothing to fear from Cuba, and everything to gain.
 
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Dragonfly said:
So we're whores then?
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No, you just seemingly fail to distinguish between supposed values and reality.

That's what you're saying?
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No, I was attempting to explain an adult concept to someone with the mentality of a child, apparently. As in, we tolerate such behavior because it furthers our political interest, like any other nation. And like any other nation, we make hay about it when it doesn't serve our political interests.

If you can't reconcile the fact that foreign relations are more complex than a series of normative values, I don't know what to tell you
 
I see no reason to end the Embargo. Cuba is still a communist nation that isn't necessarily an ally of ours :shrug:
 
Dr. Chuckles said:
No, you just seemingly fail to distinguish between supposed values and reality.



No, I was attempting to explain an adult concept to someone with the mentality of a child, apparently. As in, we tolerate such behavior because it furthers our political interest, like any other nation. And like any other nation, we make hay about it when it doesn't serve our political interests.

If you can't reconcile the fact that foreign relations are more complex than a series of normative values, I don't know what to tell you
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No - you've justified hypocrisy and painted it with pretty colors and thrown in a nice smelling deodorizer....but that doesn't change what's really happening.
 
Dragonfly said:
Actually - your whole post smacks of fear.

Cuba is not our "enemy" for god's sakes.

We have nothing to fear from Cuba, and everything to gain.
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Define your use of "our"?

All socialist, anywhere, by any name are the enemies of Free people. I am a free person. Cuba is socialist. Cuba is my enemy.
 
DVSentinel said:
Define your use of "our"?

All socialist, anywhere, by any name are the enemies of Free people. I am a free person. Cuba is socialist. Cuba is my enemy.
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Apparently the red scare never went away...
 
DVSentinel said:
Define your use of "our"?

All socialist, anywhere, by any name are the enemies of Free people. I am a free person. Cuba is socialist. Cuba is my enemy.
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Do I see you're from Texas? That might explain a lot.

Cuba is NOT a threat to the USofA.

It doesn't matter if they're socialist, communists, or anything of the sort-ists.

They are not a THREAT to the USofA.

Where your fear comes from is highly fascinating though. Any ideas where you get that from?
 
Dragonfly said:
No - you've justified hypocrisy and painted it with pretty colors and thrown in a nice smelling deodorizer....but that doesn't change what's really happening.
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I'm not sure how pointing out how realistic concerns suppercede ideological values, especially in foreign relations, amounts to hypocricy. But whatever gets you through the day, mate
 
Yes.

I hate Castro and the Communist regime on Cuba as much as anyone.

But citizens of free countries (like, supposedly, the US of A) should be free to trade with whomever they please, outside of the state of war or selling defense secrets.

I hugely sympathize with the Cuban people - I was born and raised in the bloody freaking USSR - the prime tumor, of which the Castro's socialist fascism is but a minor metastatic lesion.

But if, in our well-intentioned fight against totalitarian monsters, we keep using their own favorite tools - well, one day we may look in the mirror, and see some bearded, cigar-puffing murderous demagogue - and the ghost of Nikita "Liberator of Hungary" Khrushchev grinning ear to ear, behind him.
 
The options are skewed, how about playing it straight. Seriously though, at least once a year someone asks this and the answer is always the same - not until the Castros are dead and gone and Cuba's government changes hands. But keep asking, the answer is not going to change.
 
MoSurveyor said:
I don't see how - but I'm willing to listen.
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Through history trade between nations has not just been a trade in goods, but also a trade in ideas, customs, and the like. That's what Observer92 is saying.
 
Dragonfly said:
Do I see you're from Texas? That might explain a lot.

Cuba is NOT a threat to the USofA.

It doesn't matter if they're socialist, communists, or anything of the sort-ists.

They are not a THREAT to the USofA.

Where your fear comes from is highly fascinating though. Any ideas where you get that from?
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Well, duh. Of course Cuba is not a threat to the USA. At least since Kennedy, probably even FDR, the US has been progressing more and more towards socialism. We have a Socialist in the white house and they have control of one house of congress. I have not been an "American Patriot" for a very longtime now. I hold no loyalty to this current entity called the USofA nor to any who would call themselves "American" but shun freedom and adopt the ideologies of slavery inherent in socialism. I am a patriot of Freedom, not a particular country. I fight, as much as I am able, for the empowerment of the human individual through the individual being free to choose their own path and to live, or die, by their own merits and achievements. That core ideal of freedom of the individual has as it's enemy, socialism and any who espouse, support, aid or fail to stand against socialism as they are indeed the enemy of every person who would be free to set their own fate by their own merit.

The only exception to this would be children. Children are not the enemy of anyone. As they have not yet fully developed mentally, they can not be said to be anything, even a socialist, only a child.
 
TheDemSocialist said:
Apparently the red scare never went away...
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It was never a scare, other than the nukes they had. It was just a target rich environment of evil souls waiting to be harvested and sent on their way to hell. It will remain such until such time as there is no longer an adult individual left preaching the sermons of Satan's disciple, Marx.
 
We failed for 50 years with this embargo think of china there still communist but yet we trade a lot with them. Times have changed we should move on and Castro was not so bad as the guy before him and America put the guy in power. there is a reason the Cubans celebrated after batista was removed from power . Perhaps if we did trade with Castro after he took control he would not have to relied on Russia . Sure he was a dictator but still look to china still oppressive but not as poor or oppressive as Cuba is and with tourism they will be open to western ways and modernize . Fox and friends I dislike your comments about Cuba maybe if more people traveled they would not be so poor or mistreated or not as mistreated as the other communist government China
 
Dragonfly said:
So we're whores then? That's what you're saying?....
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I like to think of myself more as a Courtesan if you will..... Whore just sounds plain trashy.

But I don't know that's just me. :shrug: :coffeepap: :twocents:
 
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DVSentinel said:
It was never a scare, other than the nukes they had. It was just a target rich environment of evil souls waiting to be harvested and sent on their way to hell. It will remain such until such time as there is no longer an adult individual left preaching the sermons of Satan's disciple, Marx.
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It's very difficult to take you serious when you post something of this nature. So I must ask - are you serious?
 
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