Does "Political Correctness" violate "Free Speech"?

rocket88 said:

Once you're charged with a crime, they can and will use anything against you. If I wrote in an e-mail that I was going to kill a specific person, and I ended up arrested for that person's murder, they'd use that e-mail as evidence in a trial. Does that mean I have no Freedom of speech?

If you don't commit a crime, you don't have to worry about "hate crimes."

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At the extreme you're absolutely correct. At the average person level it can take something which you'd never get arrested for and turn it into an arrestable offense. THAT'S my problem with it. You get into an arguement ans shoving match with someone on the street and suddenly, because you happened to make an unpleasant, politically incorrec comment at some point in the past you're getting arrested for a hate crime. It's nuts.

"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances."

Show me where political correctness has been codified by Congress in law.

It seems that some folks don't actually understand their own rights or how political correctness is essentially the exercise of that same right.

Iif one person says that all black people are lazy, there is no law preventing them from doing so, and if 30 million people reply that the person who said this is a douchebag, there is no law preventing this.

It seems to me that the people who don't like political correctness want to ban the freedom to respond to douchebaggery.

It is a fact that a great number of people do not say everything they believe in all company for reasons of self-preservation. A racist person with a job is not likely to call their ethnic co-workers or bosses by ethnic slurs to their face or in public, but they are free to do so. And of course their employer is free to tell them to go find another job. Don't confuse not saying what one might like to say but doesn't for fear of negative consequences with a prohibition on people saying any stupid thing that comes into their heads.

What is truly ironic is that the people who claim foul about political correctness are likely the be the first people who would argue that it should be okay to imprison or exile a person who exercises their free speech right to argue for a communist political system in America (and in fact have in the past have passed laws to make that particular form of speech a crime).

polgara said:

Good morning, Pero.

Sorry, I would never believe that of you in a million years! If there is one person on this site, you are it when it comes to telling it like it is...and you do it in such a nice way, too! :thumbs:

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Thanks for the compliment, I guess that comes from my Buddhist training.

Canell said:

Howdy!

So, we have "freedom of speech" but can we use it? What do you think?

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Unless it's codified into law, then no, it doesn't violate anything.

normally I don't pay too much attention to the topic, but this is an interesting one ... calling some speech PC is a way to denigrate the idea behind it, and that is to be more aware of of the things you say because words harm, sometimes deeply, and sometimes help to perpetuate stereotypes, for example ... for the most part, it doesn't suppress free speech because for the most part no one can stop us from being insensitive or even hateful ... BUT, I guess one can say that it "violates" or at least regulates free speech when you can get fired for something you say ... this is truly a tough one ... should a man at work be able to say to female co-workers, "Hey baby! You look hot today! Mmmmmmmmmmm." On the other hand, is it going too far to prohibit a man from saying to a female co-worker, "You look nice today," which is discouraged in most work places ...

mak2 said:

Which discussion do you think has been "shut down?" by political correctness?

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I'll give you two, if that helps.

The first "discussion" shut down by political correctness is airport "profiling" - the left in America would much prefer that everybody's grandmother and 3 year old toddler was strip searched and molested by TSA agents than do what the Israelis do at their airports - they target and watch out for those who are in groups known for terrorist activities and that are travelling alone, etc. Do that in America and the left and the ACLU is out in force claiming racial profiling and using that to shut down the discussion by claiming anyone who wants to profile is a racist.

The second "discussion" shut down by political correctness is related to gun control and gun violence and the actual prevalence of guns used to murder and cause mayhem among black and hispanic youth, in gangs, in major cities. The left likes to cite gun death statistics as a reason to control gun manufacturing and possession when by far the vast majority of deaths due to gun violence is black and hispanic youths killing black and hispanic youths in inner cities in North America, and most of these crimes are committed with handguns, not assault weapons, as the left would like you to believe.

I could go on, but that's example enough.

Bori said:

normally I don't pay too much attention to the topic, but this is an interesting one ... calling some speech PC is a way to denigrate the idea behind it, and that is to be more aware of of the things you say because words harm, sometimes deeply, and sometimes help to perpetuate stereotypes, for example ... for the most part, it doesn't suppress free speech because for the most part no one can stop us from being insensitive or even hateful ... BUT, I guess one can say that it "violates" or at least regulates free speech when you can get fired for something you say ... this is truly a tough one ... should a man at work be able to say to female co-workers, "Hey baby! You look hot today! Mmmmmmmmmmm." On the other hand, is it going too far to prohibit a man from saying to a female co-worker, "You look nice today," which is discouraged in most work places ...

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There is a fine line between sexual harassment and a compliment. So I made it a habit of not saying a word to the women at work and head down to the local whore house at night. Just kidding.

I remember the first time that sexual harassment was presented to me. Back during the Vietnam war, I wore a patch that had an American Flag on it and the phrase F... Communism under it. We got a couple of WAC's in and one of the females complained about my patch. The Sergeant Major told me to take it off. I never understood that. It was perfectly okay to go out and kill a bunch of commies, but not have the patch on.

That was just another reason I left American women alone and married a Thai. They didn't care about my patch.

Airport profilinig is systematic discrimination against a certian group of people. What the Isreales do really holds no weight with me, we are American. This is not an example of polotical correctness. If I was a terrorist and wanted to sneak something on a plane, I might just sneak in aboard in the ganny's carry on or the baby's diaper.

Siting statistics for against , right or wrong, is not polotical correctness

CanadaJohn said:

I'll give you two, if that helps.

The first "discussion" shut down by political correctness is airport "profiling" - the left in America would much prefer that everybody's grandmother and 3 year old toddler was strip searched and molested by TSA agents than do what the Israelis do at their airports - they target and watch out for those who are in groups known for terrorist activities and that are travelling alone, etc. Do that in America and the left and the ACLU is out in force claiming racial profiling and using that to shut down the discussion by claiming anyone who wants to profile is a racist.

The second "discussion" shut down by political correctness is related to gun control and gun violence and the actual prevalence of guns used to murder and cause mayhem among black and hispanic youth, in gangs, in major cities. The left likes to cite gun death statistics as a reason to control gun manufacturing and possession when by far the vast majority of deaths due to gun violence is black and hispanic youths killing black and hispanic youths in inner cities in North America, and most of these crimes are committed with handguns, not assault weapons, as the left would like you to believe.

I could go on, but that's example enough.

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Bori said:

I'm feeling a little jealous ...

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Good morning, Bori.

LOL! I didn't have the required amount of caffeine in me yet to start listing names, but all of our gang, and you know who they are, can always be counted on to honestly state their opinion! In your case, keeping AP from getting lazy and complacent seems to be an enjoyable part of your life! And Mangas, bless his heart, is always good for pages of outraged dissenting commentary, which makes for fun reading! Most everyone on this site offers much in the way of good debate, which is why I like it here. And when a little humor is thrown in, it just about makes it perfect! I thusly explain my own addiction to DP, while letting my housework pile up till I receive threatening notes from my family.... :lamo:

polgara said:

Good morning, Bori.

LOL! I didn't have the required amount of caffeine in me yet to start listing names, but all of our gang, and you know who they are, can always be counted on to honestly state their opinion! In your case, keeping AP from getting lazy and complacent seems to be an enjoyable part of your life! And Mangas, bless his heart, is always good for pages of outraged dissenting commentary, which makes for fun reading! Most everyone on this site offers much in the way of good debate, which is why I like it here. And when a little humor is thrown in, it just about makes it perfect! I thusly explain my own addiction to DP, while letting my housework pile up till I receive threatening notes from my family.... :lamo:

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tell them to do it, that you're busy (if that doesn't work, unionize) ... gotta go ... have a good one ...

Bori said:

tell them to do it, that you're busy (if that doesn't work, unionize) ... gotta go ... have a good one ...

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:lamo: Have a great day!

APACHERAT said:

Did he just use the N word ?

We know under political correctness only blacks and white beard scratching liberals are allowed to use that word.

Anyone else who says that word will is labeled a racist.

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And correctly so.

CanadaJohn said:

I'll give you two, if that helps.

The first "discussion" shut down by political correctness is airport "profiling" - the left in America would much prefer that everybody's grandmother and 3 year old toddler was strip searched and molested by TSA agents than do what the Israelis do at their airports - they target and watch out for those who are in groups known for terrorist activities and that are travelling alone, etc. Do that in America and the left and the ACLU is out in force claiming racial profiling and using that to shut down the discussion by claiming anyone who wants to profile is a racist.

The second "discussion" shut down by political correctness is related to gun control and gun violence and the actual prevalence of guns used to murder and cause mayhem among black and hispanic youth, in gangs, in major cities. The left likes to cite gun death statistics as a reason to control gun manufacturing and possession when by far the vast majority of deaths due to gun violence is black and hispanic youths killing black and hispanic youths in inner cities in North America, and most of these crimes are committed with handguns, not assault weapons, as the left would like you to believe.

I could go on, but that's example enough.

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How exactly does this relate to 'freedom of speech'? Is it your position that anybody should be allowed to say anything without anybody else taking offense? Or pointing out a counter-position?

Freedom of speech deals with restricting the Government from telling people what they cannot say - and even that isn't absolute. If you don't believe me, walk through any airport and speak loudly about the weapons you are carrying.

Mathematician said:

Political correctness aside:
- blacks need to shut up about slavery and racism
- gays need to get back in the closet
- feminists need to shut up and let the females be "ladies"
- illegals need to get tossed out and suspended 5 years from applying for entry

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And extreme right wing neo-nazis need to be expelled from the country when they espouse racist, bigotted, drivel.

Wiggen said:

How exactly does this relate to 'freedom of speech'? Is it your position that anybody should be allowed to say anything without anybody else taking offense? Or pointing out a counter-position?

Freedom of speech deals with restricting the Government from telling people what they cannot say - and even that isn't absolute. If you don't believe me, walk through any airport and speak loudly about the weapons you are carrying.

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What part of a discussion about "political correctness" did you not understand as it relates to the two situations I presented?

Canell said:

Howdy!

So, we have "freedom of speech" but can we use it? What do you think?

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We can but certain things aren't always acceptable or 'appropriate' everywhere like with that one girl ranting on youtube a few years back about asians in the library...it upset a lot of people, ended up on O'Reilly and she experienced a lot of backlash over it. You can say what you want as long as you are okay with people saying what they want back to you.

CanadaJohn said:

I'll give you two, if that helps.

The first "discussion" shut down by political correctness is airport "profiling" - the left in America would much prefer that everybody's grandmother and 3 year old toddler was strip searched and molested by TSA agents than do what the Israelis do at their airports - they target and watch out for those who are in groups known for terrorist activities and that are travelling alone, etc. Do that in America and the left and the ACLU is out in force claiming racial profiling and using that to shut down the discussion by claiming anyone who wants to profile is a racist.

The second "discussion" shut down by political correctness is related to gun control and gun violence and the actual prevalence of guns used to murder and cause mayhem among black and hispanic youth, in gangs, in major cities. The left likes to cite gun death statistics as a reason to control gun manufacturing and possession when by far the vast majority of deaths due to gun violence is black and hispanic youths killing black and hispanic youths in inner cities in North America, and most of these crimes are committed with handguns, not assault weapons, as the left would like you to believe.

I could go on, but that's example enough.

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Point 1. There is no PC assault on speaking of racial profiling, it is simply illegal under our Constitution (it violates the Equal Protection Clause) and is not illegal under Israel's. However, and I think this is the more important point, Israel does not rely so heavily on racial profiling in their security procedures as some people believe, they rely moreso on behavioral profiling. EVERY passenger is questioned multiple time from the drive into the airport to boarding the plane, and the people doin the questioning are trained behavioral experts who are not listening so much to the content of answers as to the body language and other psychological cues. Israel has ONE airport and spends $100 million for security at that airport. The cost to put that kind of system in place in America would be about $60 billion a year, or 10 times what we spend now. BTW, Israel's behavioral profiling uncovered a pregnant Irish Catholic woman carrying C4 in a backpack without her knowledge as a result of their direct personal contact methodology, that is something we simply do not have the resources to detect other than the scanning process we use on ALL passengers, not just one's that "look like terrorists".

Point 2. Since when are liberal gun control advocates not interested in restricting hand guns????????????

CanadaJohn said:

What part of a discussion about "political correctness" did you not understand as it relates to the two situations I presented?

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Unlike you, I responded to the subject matter of the thread instead of going off on some right wing tangent about supposed outrages against white folks.

CanadaJohn said:

Last time I checked, Political Correctness was a tool used by the left to shut down discussion of uncomfortable truths, in plain, clear language. The left prefers code rather than honest language. "Reproductive rights" is used for "abortion" - "progressive" is used for "liberal" - "revenue enhancements" is used for "tax".

Freedom of speech is alive and well and subject to the strength of character of the speaker. If you're easily shouted down, you're easily shut out.

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Almost like the right uses "pro-life" instead of "anti-abortion", "conservative" and "libertarian" instead of "republican" and "theft" instead of "tax". Don't you just hate it when facts get in the way of your rants?

BY the way, you might notice that more people here identify as liberal than progressive(and in fact there is a difference between what each is), liberals frequently talk of abortion by name, and frequently refer to taxes by name. Your inane rant fails on basically every single possible level.

Canell said:

Howdy!

So, we have "freedom of speech" but can we use it? What do you think?

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Since many people here seem vastly confused as to what "free speech" is(hint: the constitutional protection to free speech is protection from the government), let me ask a simple question: what laws have been enacted where political correctness trumps free speech?

Wiggen said:

Unlike you, I responded to the subject matter of the thread instead of going off on some right wing tangent about supposed outrages against white folks.

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What part of the title of this thread - "Does 'Political Correctness' violate 'Free Speech' - precludes a discussion about political correctness as some right wing tangent? As I've said before, is there a reading comprehension test given before a person can be a card carrying liberal? If you pass, you're banned for life.

Redress said:

Almost like the right uses "pro-life" instead of "anti-abortion", "conservative" and "libertarian" instead of "republican" and "theft" instead of "tax". Don't you just hate it when facts get in the way of your rants?

BY the way, you might notice that more people here identify as liberal than progressive(and in fact there is a difference between what each is), liberals frequently talk of abortion by name, and frequently refer to taxes by name. Your inane rant fails on basically every single possible level.

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In your view, a view you're perfectly entitled to. Doesn't make it fact, however, just makes it your view.

Redress said:

Since many people here seem vastly confused as to what "free speech" is(hint: the constitutional protection to free speech is protection from the government), let me ask a simple question: what laws have been enacted where political correctness trumps free speech?

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The "Hate Crime" legislation, and the "Equal Employment Opportunity" legislation.

Tigger said:

The "Hate Crime" legislation, and the "Equal Employment Opportunity" legislation.

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Neither restrict speech.

CanadaJohn said:

In your view, a view you're perfectly entitled to. Doesn't make it fact, however, just makes it your view.

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Apparently my point went over your head. The point is that when you only look for "code" from one side, you are being a hack. There is as much code used by the right as the left. It is as much political correctness from the right as the left.