• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

Is the world a better place without Saddam Hussein?

Is the world a better place without Saddam Hussein?


  • Total voters
    102
Yet some of us have demonstrated the hubris to think we are morally superior to the people in the middle east.

But we're the worst people ever!
 
Oh, so to be "well-informed" is to think that Saddam Hussein made the world a better place? This is what you're saying, and my god, it's asinine.

I think you have a bit of a comprehension problem.

when someone asks - Is the world a better place without Saddam Hussein? to say "no" is not the same thing as saying he made the world a better place.

I don't think that HE made the place safer, but was happened has made the place less safe.

It helps if you don't see the world in black and white ....
 
How many years were we gonna let Hans Solo search? It had been many and, as history notes, Saddam was faking a WMD program.

You should probably read Blix's statement to the UNSC in Feb 2003 rather than asking me.:)
 
But we're the worst people ever!

The blood is on the hands of those that supported the Iraq war, just as was the blood of 9/11 on the hands of those that supported the Saudi terrorists.
 
I am sorry you feel that way. I can think of a few things your country has done that have been good.

Save your graciousness, the US doesn't give a **** what you think.
 
Oh, please! There's a big difference between ignoring history and refusing to accept that actions decades or centuries ago define foreign policy today. I'm not asking that people ignore the past, just that they pay some kind of attention to the world today.

ignore it at your peril. the quagmire that is the ME today goes back to decisions made in the last century. Understand THOSE and you might find a way to address the current problems.

Ignore them, and you never will.
 
Save your graciousness, the US doesn't give a **** what you think.

Not only don't you speak for the country, most of the country disagrees with you about the Iraq war.
 
Save your graciousness, the US doesn't give a **** what you think.

shrug ...

I'm still sorry that you feel so ashamed of your nation that you believe yourselves to be the worst people ever.
 
ignore it at your peril. the quagmire that is the ME today goes back to decisions made in the last century. Understand THOSE and you might find a way to address the current problems.

Ignore them, and you never will.

Exactly! The Iraq war resulted in our failure to learn from the Vietnam war.
 
Oh, yeah... exciting! The nebulous badguys. Ooooohhhh... Who are they?!

Spare us the victim routine. Shouldn't you be investigating 9/11?



Right now I'm busy checking out the links between Colonel Steele, General Petraeus and Iraq torture centers. It looks like the Guardian has found the smoking guns.

Read about it and watch video here: BBC-Guardian Exposé Uses WikiLeaks to Link Iraq Torture Centers to U.S. Col. Steele & Gen. Petraeus | Democracy Now!

Or maybe you would rather not be exposed to the truth.

Your choice.
 
Oh, so to be "well-informed" is to think that Saddam Hussein made the world a better place?



No, it's to know that invading Iraq didn't make the world a better, or safer place.

It did help Iran.
 
And al Qaeda!




It sure did.

Iraq was and is a great recruiting tool for Al-Qaeda.

A lot of Sunni Moslems are looking for some payback for their family and tribal members who were tortured and killed by Shia police commandos trained and overseen by the USA.

They will never forgive or forget. They are looking for some payback. They see this as a blood debt that must be paid.
 
It sure did.

Iraq was and is a great recruiting tool for Al-Qaeda.

A lot of Sunni Moslems are looking for some payback for their family and tribal members who were tortured and killed by Shia police commandos trained and overseen by the USA.

They will never forgive or forget. They are looking for some payback. They see this as a blood debt that must be paid.

this is one of the really important points that seem to escape many conservative americans ... Arab culture, like many other cultures, including many sub cultures in the US, is a culture of honour.

In such a culture, in order to redeem one's honour, or in a collectivist traditional culture, to redeem one's family's honour, or the community's/group's honour, you can't just turn the other cheek.
 
It sure did.

Iraq was and is a great recruiting tool for Al-Qaeda.

A lot of Sunni Moslems are looking for some payback for their family and tribal members who were tortured and killed by Shia police commandos trained and overseen by the USA.

They will never forgive or forget. They are looking for some payback. They see this as a blood debt that must be paid.



We see it playing out now:

Attacks claim 55 lives on Iraq anniversary

"It's the second time in less than a week that the Iraqi capital has endured major simultaneous attacks."

Attacks claim 55 lives on Iraq anniversary - CNN.com
 
We see it playing out now:

Attacks claim 55 lives on Iraq anniversary

"It's the second time in less than a week that the Iraqi capital has endured major simultaneous attacks."

Attacks claim 55 lives on Iraq anniversary - CNN.com

and of course, those who think the invasion was a good idea don't understand that for most Iraqis, keeping your head down and not criticizing was something they could do to stay relatively safe under saddam. they may not have liked it, but that was what they chose to do to stay safe.

now - going to the market, going to university, going to the mosque, meeting friends in a public place - ALL of these everyday things are dangerous. You lose family members not because they are outspoken, but because every day activities have become dangerous.

they weren't before the invasion.
 
and of course, those who think the invasion was a good idea don't understand that for most Iraqis, keeping your head down and not criticizing was something they could do to stay relatively safe under saddam. they may not have liked it, but that was what they chose to do to stay safe.

now - going to the market, going to university, going to the mosque, meeting friends in a public place - ALL of these everyday things are dangerous. You lose family members not because they are outspoken, but because every day activities have become dangerous.

they weren't before the invasion.



Indeed! And women are treated worse under the new corrupt government than they were under Saddam:

"According to the findings of a recent survey by local rights NGOs, women were treated better during the Saddam Hussein era – and their rights were more respected – than they are now.

“We interviewed women in the country and met with local NGOs dealing with gender issues to develop this survey, which asked questions about the quality of women’s life and respect for their rights,” said Senar Muhammad, president of Baghdad-based NGO Woman Freedom Organisation. “The results show that women are less respected now than they were under the previous regime, while their freedom has been curtailed.”

IRIN Middle East | IRAQ: Women were more respected under Saddam, say women
 
Indeed! And women are treated worse under the new corrupt government than they were under Saddam:

"According to the findings of a recent survey by local rights NGOs, women were treated better during the Saddam Hussein era – and their rights were more respected – than they are now.

“We interviewed women in the country and met with local NGOs dealing with gender issues to develop this survey, which asked questions about the quality of women’s life and respect for their rights,” said Senar Muhammad, president of Baghdad-based NGO Woman Freedom Organisation. “The results show that women are less respected now than they were under the previous regime, while their freedom has been curtailed.”

IRIN Middle East | IRAQ: Women were more respected under Saddam, say women

the personal status law enacted when Iraq became a republic meant that under Saddam, women had better rights in Iraq than in any other country in the region. In 2003, I knew women living in Iraq who had never worn Hijab in their lives. Those same women, by 2004, would not go out uncovered for fear OF BEING ATTACKED.

Christians I knew feared the war, along with their muslim brothers and sisters they said bush was hamak, but they rejoiced when Saddam fell. But their joy turned to fear and in 2004 they fled. One woman said to me that she had always got on with her Muslim neighbours and had never had problems. In 2004 things changed, and they had to get out.

Sabeans I know have had it even worse.

This is the bit that the pro Iraq lobby don't get. Real people, ordinary people who coped under Saddam, the Iran/Iraq conflict and the bombing of Baghdad in 1991, who had braced for the invasion, stocking up with food and filling every spare container with water because who knew how long before they could get water again (in '91 they had had to go down to the Tigris for weeks after the bombing to get drinking water) could no longer cope after the invasion.

They will never go back home. They know it is still not safe for them there, and they don't see a time when it will be.
 
Back
Top Bottom