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Is the world a better place without Saddam Hussein?

Is the world a better place without Saddam Hussein?

  • Total voters
    102
Jack Hays said:
Please identify Powell's reference to the forged documents.:cool:
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Fake Iraq documents 'embarrassing' for U.S.

The documents, given to International Atomic Energy Agency Director General Mohamed ElBaradei, indicated that Iraq might have tried to buy 500 tons of uranium from Niger, but the agency said they were "obvious" fakes.

U.S. Secretary of State Colin Powell referred to the documents directly in his presentation to the U.N. Security Council outlining the Bush administration's case against Iraq.

"I'm sure the FBI and CIA must be mortified by this because it is extremely embarrassing to them," former CIA official Ray Close said.
 
Jack Hays said:
He's a fine man, but a political appointee, and not an intelligence professional. He'd be the first to say he's not.:cool:
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Yeah, sure :roll: The Director of the CIA is not intelligence professional. :roll:

Regardless of your semantics, as Director of the CIA, he knew the basis of those 16 words and he said they should not have been in the SofU address.
 
Harshaw said:
Whatever may or may not have been wrong, not one of these quotes indicates an intent to deceive.
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The issue being debated is whether or not those 16 words should have been in the SofU address.

Rice, Hadley, Powell, Fleischer, and Tenet all say "no."

I have yet to see any evidence that they were all wrong.
 
Sheik Yerbuti said:
Fake Iraq documents 'embarrassing' for U.S.

The documents, given to International Atomic Energy Agency Director General Mohamed ElBaradei, indicated that Iraq might have tried to buy 500 tons of uranium from Niger, but the agency said they were "obvious" fakes.

U.S. Secretary of State Colin Powell referred to the documents directly in his presentation to the U.N. Security Council outlining the Bush administration's case against Iraq.

"I'm sure the FBI and CIA must be mortified by this because it is extremely embarrassing to them," former CIA official Ray Close said.
Click to expand...

Sheik Yerbuti said:
Yeah, sure :roll: The Director of the CIA is not intelligence professional. :roll:

Regardless of your semantics, as Director of the CIA, he knew the basis of those 16 words and he said they should not have been in the SofU address.
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To say the words should not have been in the SOTU is not the same as saying they were unfounded. As I posted earlier, if you were to ask Tenet whether he was/is an intelligence professional, his answer would be no. Regardless of CNN's claim, Powell made no reference to the forged documents in his address to the UN. You're long on propaganda and short on facts.:cool:
 
Jack Hays said:
To say the words should not have been in the SOTU is not the same as saying they were unfounded. As I posted earlier, if you were to ask Tenet whether he was/is an intelligence professional, his answer would be no. Regardless of CNN's claim, Powell made no reference to the forged documents in his address to the UN. You're long on propaganda and short on facts.:cool:
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Yes, they were saying the 16 words were unfounded ...

• "The CIA was pushing the aluminum tube argument heavily and Cheney went with that instead of what our guys wrote," Powell said. And the Niger reference in Bush's State of the Union speech? "That was a big mistake," he said. "It should never have been in the speech. I didn't need Wilson to tell me that there wasn't a Niger connection. He didn't tell us anything we didn't already know. I never believed it."

• "What we've said subsequently is, knowing what we now know, that some of the Niger documents were apparently forged, we wouldn't have put this in the President's speech -- but that's knowing what we know now." ~ Condoleezza Rice
 
Sheik Yerbuti said:
The issue being debated is whether or not those 16 words should have been in the SofU address.

Rice, Hadley, Powell, Fleischer, and Tenet all say "no."

I have yet to see any evidence that they were all wrong.
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:shrug: That wasn't the point you were responding to.
 
Sheik Yerbuti said:
Yes, they were saying the 16 words were unfounded ...

• "The CIA was pushing the aluminum tube argument heavily and Cheney went with that instead of what our guys wrote," Powell said. And the Niger reference in Bush's State of the Union speech? "That was a big mistake," he said. "It should never have been in the speech. I didn't need Wilson to tell me that there wasn't a Niger connection. He didn't tell us anything we didn't already know. I never believed it."

• "What we've said subsequently is, knowing what we now know, that some of the Niger documents were apparently forged, we wouldn't have put this in the President's speech -- but that's knowing what we know now." ~ Condoleezza Rice
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And again, the reporting of which Wilson was aware was never necessary to make the Niger connection. That nuance was apparently lost on both Rice and Powell. That, however, is the reason Powell never referenced the forged documents in his UN address, a point which you have now apparently conceded. You notice how the longer this goes on, the more ground you have to give up? Wonder why?:cool:
 
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Sheik Yerbuti said:
The issue being debated is whether or not those 16 words should have been in the SofU address.

Rice, Hadley, Powell, Fleischer, and Tenet all say "no."

I have yet to see any evidence that they were all wrong.
Click to expand...

Rice, Hadley, Powell and Fleischer were apparently unaware of reporting nuances. Tenet was dissatisfied by the coordination/clearance process.:cool:
 
Jack Hays said:
And again, the reporting of which Wilson was aware was never necessary to make the Niger connection. That nuance was apparently lost on both Rice and Powell. That, however, is the reason Powell never referenced the forged documents in his UN address, a point which you have now apparently conceded. You notice how the longer this goes on, the more ground you have to give up? Wonder why?:cool:
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Bull****. You keep forgetting that Wilson went to Niger eleven months prior to Bush's SOTU speech. He was sent there by the CIA because V.P. Cheney kept bugging them about a supposed contract that had been made.
Let the man tell you himself why he was sent :

 
Jack Hays said:
To say the words should not have been in the SOTU is not the same as saying they were unfounded. As I posted earlier, if you were to ask Tenet whether he was/is an intelligence professional, his answer would be no. Regardless of CNN's claim, Powell made no reference to the forged documents in his address to the UN. You're long on propaganda and short on facts.:cool:
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I can't explain CNN's reference other than to say it appears to be in error as Powell made no reference in that speech. He did, however, use a reference to them in December, 2002, when he provided them a fact sheet stating, "The Declaration ignores efforts to procure uranium from Niger."
 
pbrauer said:
Bull****. You keep forgetting that Wilson went to Niger eleven months prior to Bush's SOTU speech. He was sent there by the CIA because V.P. Cheney kept bugging them about a supposed contract that had been made.
Let the man tell you himself why he was sent :

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Wilson's understanding of why he was sent is among the most irrelevant aspects of this discussion. The important thing is what he didn't know.:cool:
 
Sheik Yerbuti said:
I can't explain CNN's reference other than to say it appears to be in error as Powell made no reference in that speech. He did, however, use a reference to them in December, 2002, when he provided them a fact sheet stating, "The Declaration ignores efforts to procure uranium from Niger."
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And that had nothing to do with the forged documents. Please note there is no reference to a contract, the center piece of the forgeries. It was the great disservice of Wilson, acting out of ignorance, to conflate separate reporting streams in the public debate. This discussion demonstrates the continuing difficulty created when Wilson hijacked the debate on a wrong turn.

Out to dinner.:cool:
 
Is the world a better place without Saddam Hussein?
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4 hours ago -

Suicide Bomber Kills 20 at Political Rally in Iraq

"A suicide bomber blew himself up Saturday at a lunch hosted by a Sunni candidate in Iraq's upcoming regional elections, killing 20 people, officials said.

The blast ripped through a hospitality tent pitched next to the house of Muthana al-Jourani, who is running for the provincial council and held the lunch rally for supporters, councilman Sadiq al-Huseini said.

The attack took place in Baqouba, a mixed Sunni-Shiite city some 60 kilometers (35 miles) northeast of Baghdad. Insurgent attacks and sectarian bloodletting have been rampant there in the decade since the 2003 U.S.-led invasion. Violence is expected to surge in the run up to Iraq's provincial elections on April 20."

Suicide Bomber Kills 20 at Political Rally in Iraq - ABC News
 
Sheik Yerbuti said:
I can't explain CNN's reference other than to say it appears to be in error as Powell made no reference in that speech. He did, however, use a reference to them in December, 2002, when he provided them a fact sheet stating, "The Declaration ignores efforts to procure uranium from Niger."
Click to expand...

He sure did, from your link:

Nuclear Weapons

  • The Declaration ignores efforts to procure uranium from Niger.
  • Why is the Iraqi regime hiding their uranium procurement?
 
pbrauer said:
He sure did, from your link:

Nuclear Weapons

  • The Declaration ignores efforts to procure uranium from Niger.
  • Why is the Iraqi regime hiding their uranium procurement?
Click to expand...

Neither reference draws on the forged documents.
 
Navy Pride said:
On the anniversary of the Iraq war the question begs to be asked.
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Yes, it is.

But is the world a better place with the related fallout? No. If we went after every leader that oppressed his/her people the world would be even more chaotic than it is now.

They're called unintended consequences. I know conservatives love talking about them when it comes to domestic policies.
 
Is the world a better place without Saddam Hussein?
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One hour ago -

Officials: Explosions Kill 4 in Northwest Iraq

"A trio of bombs exploded on Sunday in the northwest Iraqi city of Mosul, killing four security officers and wounding seven other people, officials said.

The violence began with a car bomb that killed two soldiers and wounded another five, police officials said. A second bomb, which was placed under a vehicle, exploded, wounding two people. Later, a roadside bomb killed a police officer and a soldier.

A health official confirmed the casualties in an industrial area of the city, 360 kilometers (225 miles) northwest of Baghdad.

The police and health officials spoke anonymously because they weren't allowed to talk to media.

A surge in violence is expected in Iraq in the lead up to provincial elections on April 20."

Officials: Explosions Kill 4 in Northwest Iraq - ABC News
 
Catawba said:
One hour ago -

Officials: Explosions Kill 4 in Northwest Iraq

"A trio of bombs exploded on Sunday in the northwest Iraqi city of Mosul, killing four security officers and wounding seven other people, officials said.

The violence began with a car bomb that killed two soldiers and wounded another five, police officials said. A second bomb, which was placed under a vehicle, exploded, wounding two people. Later, a roadside bomb killed a police officer and a soldier.

A health official confirmed the casualties in an industrial area of the city, 360 kilometers (225 miles) northwest of Baghdad.

The police and health officials spoke anonymously because they weren't allowed to talk to media.

A surge in violence is expected in Iraq in the lead up to provincial elections on April 20."

Officials: Explosions Kill 4 in Northwest Iraq - ABC News
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The Americans have left, but the war isn't over.
 
shlunka said:
Asides from the mass killings, I'd say ol' Saddam was a pretty good fellow.
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During most of his mass killings we supported him. But kicking US and British oil companies out of Iraq and threatening to switch to the euro we could not stand for.
 
Catawba said:
During most of his mass killings we supported him. But kicking US and British oil companies out of Iraq and threatening to switch to the euro we could not stand for.
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You're right, removing our oil companies was just plain sadistic.
 
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