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Should childless couples be considered inferior?

Should childless couples be considered inferior?

  • Yes. Having children is a moral obligation to God/society/family/etc.

    Votes: 4 2.8%

  • No, they are free not to have children. They don't have to answer to anybody

    Votes: 105 74.5%

  • Not if they have reproductive problems.

    Votes: 1 0.7%

  • Yes, even if they have reproductive problems. They can adopt, you know.

    Votes: 1 0.7%

  • They should get a medal for lowering world population.

    Votes: 20 14.2%

  • Other

    Votes: 9 6.4%

  • I don't know.

    Votes: 1 0.7%
  • Total voters
    141
Many people Have Children, that should Never have had them, for all the wrong reasons, ............ having a child is Because you want to and will love them and take care of the child, not for progeny, or to populate the world.................. if your desire is Not to have a child , whats the problem, in this day and age it is IMO............ "' To each Their Own Choice""
 
Canell said:
Many couples don't have children for various reasons. Should they be considered inferior in society? :confused:
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No. In fact, they should be thanked for making a wise decision if they are avoiding such because they recognize their inability to be quality parents for any reasons whatsoever.
 
Canell said:
Who said it's without their consent?
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I've been trying very hard to keep my religious views out of this because I know my sparring partners don't share them, but without taking religious views into your account there's no way to logically claim that unborn children can give consent to being born. Existence, then, is thrust upon them before they have the capacity for consent.

I am myself divided on the issue of whether our ancestors choose to be reincarnated or if it simply happens.
 
SmokeAndMirrors said:
The overwhelming majority of them have kids. Their kids just don't care.
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You don't have children to care for you at old age. You have children because you feel like a spring of life.

SmokeAndMirrors said:
How do you ask a non-existent child whether they'd like to be born to you?
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Oh, please, there are tons of literature about afterlife and reincarnation. I don't have to explain. :)
 
RabidAlpaca said:
Being selfish would require caring only for one's self and ignoring the needs/feelings of others. Our ancestors are dead. They don't have needs, they don't have feelings, and you certainly can't care for them. That leaves only you and your spouse to make the decision.
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I should clarify here because I spoke poorly. I do not consider you selfish, but rather your arguments in this thread. (And to some extent your ideological bent.) You are by your presentation and your manners a fine gentleman and I've got no cause to disparage you-- and it was not my intent to do so.
 
Canell said:
You don't have children to care for you at old age. You have children because you feel like a spring of life.
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So why does everyone come up with the "Who will care for you when you're old?" bingo? Honestly, I don't think most people do it for such shiny reasons (even if I didn't find that reasoning flawed).

Oh, please, there are tons of literature about afterlife and reincarnation. I don't have to explain. :)
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Yes, I'm aware. And not a single bit of it gives me any reason to accept it as truth.
 
Viktyr Gehrig said:
I've been trying very hard to keep my religious views out of this because I know my sparring partners don't share them, but without taking religious views into your account there's no way to logically claim that unborn children can give consent to being born.
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Well yeah, I guess we it cannot go without some faith.
 
SmokeAndMirrors said:
Every person in my family is an individual, and a lot of them have virtually nothing in common with each other than a bit of DNA.
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This is a greater tragedy than your lack of desire to have children; you already know how I feel about DNA, and families. That your family bonds are so frayed as to be nearly non-existent is something to mourn.

SmokeAndMirrors said:
What do I care who carries on this supposed "legacy?" I don't even know what the purpose of it is, and so far, you're not really explaining it to me. You're just choosing different words for the same concept.
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What is the point of living a meaningful life if it is forgotten soon after your death? Your legacy is the meaning of your life sustained beyond your death.

SmokeAndMirrors said:
My dead family doesn't care if their bits of genetic information are perpetuated, my living family has already gotten over it and realize I have far more to offer than simply my bodily functions. I have a brain too.
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You know that I respect your brain. That's one reason I would prefer that you perpetuated your line-- not only genetically, but also culturally. The world needs more of you.

SmokeAndMirrors said:
What, do you think all those old people rotting in bottom-dollar homes, who never get a single visit, are all childfree? Please. They're from a time when being childfree wasn't even an option.

The overwhelming majority of them have kids. Their kids just don't care.
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This is the converse of not needing children to have a family. You can have children and still not have a family. And that is a tragedy.

SmokeAndMirrors said:
And beyond that, if that's the reason you have children, then you are the selfish one, not me.
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I think you know better.
 
Canell said:
Well yeah, I guess we it cannot go without some faith.
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It's a handicap, but if we're to have any hope of convincing people who disagree with us, we have to learn to argue from the perspective of their own beliefs.
 
SmokeAndMirrors said:
No. Why, precisely?

I'm quite intentionally childfree. And from what I've seen of the world, I don't really notice any superiority of people who just happen to have reproduced on any metric.



How so? How is simply breeding a contribution?

And how do you reckon people who don't reproduce -- a lot of whom don't because they occupy very challenging careers that possibly benefit your children -- aren't contributing?
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All very clever...beware that after you are dissatisfied with your ''challenging career'' that Mother nature just doesn't pay you a visit and deal you the need to reproduce card...
 
SmokeAndMirrors said:
Your desire to believe you aren't really choosing to bring someone else into being for your own reasons without their input.
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But there isn't anybody there to ask yet. I don't believe I implied in any way that it's a selfless act.
 
Viktyr Gehrig said:
This is a greater tragedy than your lack of desire to have children; you already know how I feel about DNA, and families. That your family bonds are so frayed as to be nearly non-existent is something to mourn.
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I don't know any healthy family where people are not substantially different from each other. The ones where people seem to be very alike are extremely oppressive, and no one seems to be happy.

I bond to people out of mutual respect and good treatment. A family member may or may not meet that criteria.

What is the point of living a meaningful life if it is forgotten soon after your death? Your legacy is the meaning of your life sustained beyond your death.
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I don't care whether I am remembered -- I am not egotistical enough for it to make a difference. The effects our lives have continue whether or not we are remembered. I aim for mine to be positive.

You know that I respect your brain. That's one reason I would prefer that you perpetuated your line-- not only genetically, but also culturally. The world needs more of you.
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Unfortunately, reproducing doesn't make "more of you." It makes "a whole new person who may be nothing like you."

And besides that, I would have a lot less time to put my brain to use if my life revolved around the mundanities of children.

You seem to be arguing that intelligent people would be better off hoping they'll pass their brains on than dedicating their lives to using them fully. At what point is someone in that legacy supposed to actually do something with it?

And besides all of that, parenting is not the only -- or even the best -- way to influence culture.

And then there's just the fact that I don't feel any obligation to anyone to throw away what I could do with life just because they would rather I reproduce.

This is the converse of not needing children to have a family. You can have children and still not have a family. And that is a tragedy.
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Perhaps, but it goes against your idea that having children implies you will have family to look after you in old age.

I think you know better.
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I do, so don't imply it.
 
wolfie said:
All very clever...beware that after you are dissatisfied with your ''challenging career'' that Mother nature just doesn't pay you a visit and deal you the need to reproduce card...
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You're assuming I will become dissatisfied. Plenty of women never do. The media's been barking this line of Helen Mirren for decades, yet here she is. Statistically, childfree women actually tend to be happier -- even in old age.

I am not a dog, and I don't go into heat. People don't have a "need to reproduce" card. They have a sex drive, and social pressure. That is enough to keep most breeding.

But on the off chance I ever suffer from a bout of temporary insanity and suddenly believe I must birth the messiah, fortunately I am already fixed.
 
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SmokeAndMirrors said:
You're assuming I will become dissatisfied. Plenty of women never do. The media's been barking this line of Helen Mirren for decades, yet here she is. Statistically, childfree women actually tend to be happier.

I am not a dog, and I don't go into heat. People don't have a "need to reproduce" card. They have a sex drive, and social pressure. That is enough to keep most breeding.

But on the off chance I ever suffer from a bout of temporary insanity and suddenly believe I must birth the messiah, fortunately I am already fixed.
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So you've never completely loved a man enough to want his children?

All about the career??

I don't know how old you are..but I hope your ''fix'' is reversible..
 
wolfie said:
So you've never completely loved a man enough to want his children?

All about the career??

I don't know how old you are..but I hope your ''fix'' is reversible..
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I have completely loved a man, but I have no desire to have anyone's children. A man is himself. His offspring would be different people. Why would loving him make me want to have his offspring?

No, not all about career, but I happen to do what I love.

I'm 23. And no, it's permanent.
 
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Canell said:
So, you have cut you balls, I mean eggs. Well, I wish good luck anyway. :)
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No, just the tube that leads them into the blood chamber. The ova are still there. They just wander off to die somewhere in my abdominal cavity.
 
I think it's best that married couples have children, but I wouldn't say they're inferior.
 
SmokeAndMirrors said:
I have completely loved a man, but I have no desire to have anyone's children. A man is himself. He is not his offspring. Why would loving him make me want to have his offspring?

No, not all about career, but I happen to do what I love.

I'm 23. And no, it's permanent.
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I'm shocked SM..why ever did you make such a decision at such an early age??

Do you dislike children?

Hey..they are not everyone's bag..
 
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