• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

Given the changing times, would you rather live in another country?

Would you rather live in another country?

  • Yes

    Votes: 12 19.0%
  • No

    Votes: 40 63.5%
  • Undecided

    Votes: 11 17.5%

  • Total voters
    63
When will you reach 'that line'? seems to me the being forced to support those who 'wont', around 10% of the population, has been around for a lifetime. Are you including corporations that don't pay taxes as well?
Corporations don't actually 'pay' taxes, they pass them through to the consumer in their pricing.

So let's review the options, stay and 'fight' to make those who are poor pay more, force corporations to pony up more (and threaten to leave like you are) OR you leave this country for another with LESS rights and/or MORE taxes.
Where did I say force the poor to pay more? Please quote.

If you flee to Europe you will be forced to contribute (to your detriment as any money out of your pocket is a detriment) at a far larger scale- you will learn what VAT means but good.
What part of 'betterment of man' was I not clear on?

Flee to the third world and you will have little say in anything unless you can bribe officials to look the other way, and hire enough security to keep the bandits off you... not even Joko's 50 round drum will save you down there... ;)
Not planning on a third world country.
I understand the every man for himself mindset, but it is WE the people, not ME the people...
It shouldn't be every man for himself, but at what point is a detriment to your own survival in supporting other people. Give away your last slice of bread so another may eat?

I see voluntary contributions to the poor about the same way I see voluntary contributions to national defense...
Note the word voluntary. Required by threats of fines, penalties, levies and/or imprisonment is not voluntary. I do plenty in the voluntary manner.

We'd be speaking Russian right about now... :shock:
More likely German or Japanese, but whatever.
 
Corporations don't actually 'pay' taxes, they pass them through to the consumer in their pricing.

Where did I say force the poor to pay more? Please quote.

What part of 'betterment of man' was I not clear on?

Not planning on a third world country.
It shouldn't be every man for himself, but at what point is a detriment to your own survival in supporting other people. Give away your last slice of bread so another may eat?

Note the word voluntary. Required by threats of fines, penalties, levies and/or imprisonment is not voluntary. I do plenty in the voluntary manner.

More likely German or Japanese, but whatever.

if corporations don't pay taxes why do they threaten to leave if the loopholes are closed and rates not reduced?

I must have confused you for another poster...all that 'taker' whine after the election and how 51% do not pay taxes. my bad... you hold no grudge against these people?

Actually you are not the least bit clear on what 'betterment' means...

I can assure you we are no where near the point where your last slice of bread is the only thing you have. that is way too much drama, and sounded a lot like another poster who does love the 'taker' and 51% don't pay taxes rant. if you have plenty to give away then the whine is moot.

Neither Germany or japan will let you just come on in and have full citizenship. You will be a second class citizen still paying under a tax system that is far more 'socialist' then anything we have.

And it ain't voluntary....
 
if corporations don't pay taxes why do they threaten to leave if the loopholes are closed and rates not reduced?
Because most companies don't WANT to raise their prices to absorb the additional taxes. The American consumer is all about cheaper cheaper cheaper. If the taxes on a corp get raised, the prices go up, and the consumer whines.

I must have confused you for another poster...all that 'taker' whine after the election and how 51% do not pay taxes. my bad... you hold no grudge against these people?
Not a grudge per se. I don't like it, but I myself cannot fix it, and IMO we have a government who wants it that way, for the dependency thing.

Actually you are not the least bit clear on what 'betterment' means...
Taking care of those who can't take care of themselves, research and developement of better and effecient ways to address those needs, protection of our borders (meant in a multitude of ways: immigration and attack) and taking care of the infrastructure (roads) so we contune to be able to travel as freely as we have in the past.

I can assure you we are no where near the point where your last slice of bread is the only thing you have. that is way too much drama, and sounded a lot like another poster who does love the 'taker' and 51% don't pay taxes rant. if you have plenty to give away then the whine is moot.
I don't expect SS or MCare to exist as they are today, when my time to retire comes, so I provide for myself. I have certain medical issues that must be addressed on a daily basis, and I'm sure more to come. Since I can't rely on what has already been taken from me, and will continue to be taken from me to support those who have become eligible, I judge what is not disposable income, and put aside for my future.

Neither Germany or japan will let you just come on in and have full citizenship. You will be a second class citizen still paying under a tax system that is far more 'socialist' then anything we have.
That was in regards to what language we would be speaking if we didn't have our military protecting us.
And it ain't voluntary....
No, it ain't. :wink:
 
Because most companies don't WANT to raise their prices to absorb the additional taxes. The American consumer is all about cheaper cheaper cheaper. If the taxes on a corp get raised, the prices go up, and the consumer whines.

Not a grudge per se. I don't like it, but I myself cannot fix it, and IMO we have a government who wants it that way, for the dependency thing.

Taking care of those who can't take care of themselves, research and developement of better and effecient ways to address those needs, protection of our borders (meant in a multitude of ways: immigration and attack) and taking care of the infrastructure (roads) so we contune to be able to travel as freely as we have in the past.

I don't expect SS or MCare to exist as they are today, when my time to retire comes, so I provide for myself. I have certain medical issues that must be addressed on a daily basis, and I'm sure more to come. Since I can't rely on what has already been taken from me, and will continue to be taken from me to support those who have become eligible, I judge what is not disposable income, and put aside for my future.

That was in regards to what language we would be speaking if we didn't have our military protecting us.
No, it ain't. :wink:

Wait, you JUST typed corporations don't pay taxes, they pass them onto the consumer and yet NOW you say they don't want to pass the tax on because of consumer pressure.... which is it???

The dependency thing is funny, less than 15% of the citizens depend on 'the Gubmint', I'd say far more do that actually work for it then depend it. Exclude those who PAY into 'the system' and you again have a minority. But your 'solution' is to flee to a country that is far more socialist than we are. Out of the frying pan and into the fire!

I kinda thought most of what you consider 'betterment' was already being done. Well not attacking immigrants- not sure what you mean by that.

I see your medical issues as telling in this. I don't believe you can make and squirrel enough away on your own, even at the current tax rates- you have claimed the line hasn't been crossed yet. Without addressing the cost of healthcare as an overall issue I don't see any of us affording private healthcare. I see Mcare and SS payments as going to be continued, even strengthened as our nation's voters grow older and medical costs beat every other increase in our lives.

But I can now see why you'd go to Germany- their medical care is far more accessable and more extensive than ours, even with their taxes. The exact opposite of what you claim you want here.

The military is a 'We the people' organization, not big on 'Me the people'. When we beat the Nazis and the Roosians we did it with a conscript army... a form of 'slavery' as the right wing sees their lot in life now...slaves to the Gubmint. :roll:

Now if we had a 'Me the people' gubmint back when Hitler ravaged Europe or the Iron Curtain threatened to seal us off from major markets do you think we would still be free and speaking our peculiar from of English?

A 'Me the people' government would never work... is why the Libertarian party never does well.
 
By "fun" I don't mean, like, nightlife. Business and science are by far more dynamic here. The quality of intellectual discourse and cultural development is also actually higher - although you do have to "dig for it".

As for the "street culture" - it depends on the place, I guess. Nothing seems to be wrong with Boston, New York or Seattle (three cities I am most familiar with).

I don't necessarily mean nightlife either. I kind of mean arts, projects, etc.

Also... I gotta disagree on intellectual discourse too. It's another thing I have to dig for.

Well, those cities you name are the freaks of America. :lol: Although they still don't really compare to what I've seen in other places. I'm not a fan of New York these days -- it's turning into an oversized yuppie town. But I would actually love to move to Seattle. It seems like the best compromise between the things I loved elsewhere, and the things that ultimately make me stay in the US.
 
Last edited:
We can carpool to Canada. It is like the US but more like Uncle Sam on weed........

Screw that. Latin America or Asia's where you want to go if the United States ever goes kaput. After all, if we go, we're probably taking Canada and Europe down with us.

There are all kinds of opportunities for a clean cut military trained white guy in China, and Latin women are hot as hell. :mrgreen:
 
Last edited:
Wait, you JUST typed corporations don't pay taxes, they pass them onto the consumer and yet NOW you say they don't want to pass the tax on because of consumer pressure.... which is it???
Do you want to be forced to price your goods or services to the top end of a market? They don't want to pass on ADDITIONAL taxes (such as closing loopholes would do)

The dependency thing is funny, less than 15% of the citizens depend on 'the Gubmint', I'd say far more do that actually work for it then depend it. Exclude those who PAY into 'the system' and you again have a minority. But your 'solution' is to flee to a country that is far more socialist than we are. Out of the frying pan and into the fire!
You obviously missed my very first post. I RATHER stay here, but they don't make the choice easy. Canada, which is what I posted as an alternative, may be more socialistic in base but with a lot less government involvement in personal lives.

I kinda thought most of what you consider 'betterment' was already being done.
And paying more and more for it, because I consider the government to be very inefficient at it.

Well not attacking immigrants- not sure what you mean by that.
Immigrants AND attack, separate items, usually separated by the word AND or OR. As in protected from.

I see your medical issues as telling in this. I don't believe you can make and squirrel enough away on your own, even at the current tax rates- you have claimed the line hasn't been crossed yet. Without addressing the cost of healthcare as an overall issue I don't see any of us affording private healthcare. I see Mcare and SS payments as going to be continued, even strengthened as our nation's voters grow older and medical costs beat every other increase in our lives.
No one is responsible for my care other than me. And I have squirreled away, barring a catastrophe, enough to see me in into my first years of 'retirement'. If SS and MCare still exists, bonus. If not, then lifes been a hell of a ride.
But I can now see why you'd go to Germany- their medical care is far more accessable and more extensive than ours, even with their taxes. The exact opposite of what you claim you want here.
Didn't say Germany, and I wouldn't go there if I were to have to make a decision.

The military is a 'We the people' organization, not big on 'Me the people'. When we beat the Nazis and the Roosians we did it with a conscript army... a form of 'slavery' as the right wing sees their lot in life now...slaves to the Gubmint. :roll:
Have I ever said we do not need a government of some sort? Do please quote it, I'd be intersted in seeing it.

Now if we had a 'Me the people' gubmint back when Hitler ravaged Europe or the Iron Curtain threatened to seal us off from major markets do you think we would still be free and speaking our peculiar from of English?

A 'Me the people' government would never work... is why the Libertarian party never does well.
See comment above.
 
Screw that. Latin America or Asia's where you want to go if the United States ever goes kaput. After all, if we go, we're probably taking Canada and Europe down with us.

There are all kinds of opportunities for a clean cut military trained white guy in China, and Latin women are hot as hell. :mrgreen:

I know a LOT of people from college who have gone overseas to work in China. If I were single or childless, I'd consider it for a few years.
 
Do you want to be forced to price your goods or services to the top end of a market? They don't want to pass on ADDITIONAL taxes (such as closing loopholes would do)

You obviously missed my very first post. I RATHER stay here, but they don't make the choice easy. Canada, which is what I posted as an alternative, may be more socialistic in base but with a lot less government involvement in personal lives.

And paying more and more for it, because I consider the government to be very inefficient at it.

Immigrants AND attack, separate items, usually separated by the word AND or OR. As in protected from.

No one is responsible for my care other than me. And I have squirreled away, barring a catastrophe, enough to see me in into my first years of 'retirement'. If SS and MCare still exists, bonus. If not, then lifes been a hell of a ride.
Didn't say Germany, and I wouldn't go there if I were to have to make a decision.

Have I ever said we do not need a government of some sort? Do please quote it, I'd be intersted in seeing it.

See comment above.

Don't dodge the issue, first you claim corporations don't pay taxes, they pass them on. THEN you claim they won't because of market pressure....this isn't about what I want, it is about you saying two completely different things on the subject of corporate taxes.

Please explain how Canada.gov doesn't get into personal lives?

You still haven't explained what you mean by attack... try at least 3 complete sentences on the subject of attack.

Funny thing about many me the people folks... barring catastrophe... there is the simple reason why we have a social safety net. I'm fine with anyone not wanting it under them, and smile when the 'first few years' of retirement are covered. Good luck with that.

I enjoy the constant drumbeat of gubmint inefficiency, some who beat this gong refuse any thought of overhauling the military- cut it's budget and we become a second class power! Others are right now in another thread complaining how PRIVATE SECTOR charities are vastly inefficient. Not sure your money going to private charity does any better than what the Gubmint does. Having witnessed the MILLIONS spent by corporations on 'upgrades' that end up dying a slow death... Agilent, HP, Microwarehouse, Northrup Grumman, now QVC. millions spent, often the project aborted and the cobbled together temporary system becomes THE operating system and the consultants make a sweet profit.

face it dot.gov has no monopoly on snafus.

Again, you attempt to move the discussion... my point isn't NO Government but where does 'ME the people' draw the line on where Gubmint operates and how much does it get to do so?

You complained of forced and slavery....as if that is what is going on, obviously you don't know what slavery truly is, you fail to admit WE the people fought Japan, Germany, and Communism with a conscript army.
 
Have no plans to move to Canada.
I like the people, I even have investments in Canada, but your weather stinks.
Cold is the curse of Canada.

Our weather is awesome, I'd rather be in -30 than +30, America is way too warm. Anything above 25 and I avoid going outside at all costs. If you want warmth, live in Vancouver. It has the perks of Canada with the warmth of the United States.
 
Our weather is awesome, I'd rather be in -30 than +30, America is way too warm. Anything above 25 and I avoid going outside at all costs. If you want warmth, live in Vancouver. It has the perks of Canada with the warmth of the United States.

We get +30 temperatures here in summer just not all summer long :) And yes it is too hot above +25 but I hate the -30 as well. Actually i really hate +5 to -5 as everything tends to get wet and mushy/muddy/slushy etc. so I guess Im a +6 to +25 or a -6 to -20 person.
 
Our weather is awesome, I'd rather be in -30 than +30, America is way too warm. Anything above 25 and I avoid going outside at all costs. If you want warmth, live in Vancouver. It has the perks of Canada with the warmth of the United States.

Not possible.
Anything below 60 F is too cold.

30 C is a nice summer day, not hot in the least.
 
We get +30 temperatures here in summer just not all summer long :) And yes it is too hot above +25 but I hate the -30 as well. Actually i really hate +5 to -5 as everything tends to get wet and mushy/muddy/slushy etc. so I guess Im a +6 to +25 or a -6 to -20 person.

I'd rather be cold it seems easier to get warm on a cold than to get cool on a warm day. Sure we get +30 but it's never continuous.
 
Many things are changing in the United States, and many things have remained the same (war, for example). Gun policies are changing, health care is changing drastically, economy is in the dumps, etc etc. I am not deeming any of these issues negative or positive because to each, his own. I am simply curious to see how many Americans are either satisfied and want to continue living here, or are unsettled and wish to leave.

Vote and discuss.

I want to live right here in the good old USA. Always have and always will. Best place on earth!
 
Not possible.
Anything below 60 F is too cold.

30 C is a nice summer day, not hot in the least.

I turn the air conditioner on full blast and stay indoors, so do most people. Actually at 30C Toronto issues an extreme heat alert and people are advised to stay inside.
 
I'd rather be cold it seems easier to get warm on a cold than to get cool on a warm day. Sure we get +30 but it's never continuous.

My house is very old the insulation sucks at -30 no matter what it is cold inside but the air conditiong works great still at +30. That is my particular situation however.
 
I turn the air conditioner on full blast and stay indoors, so do most people. Actually at 30C Toronto issues an extreme heat alert and people are advised to stay inside.

And Toronto calls out the army when they get a bit of snow. Sorry but you guys will never live that one down :)
 
My house is very old the insulation sucks at -30 no matter what it is cold inside but the air conditiong works great still at +30. That is my particular situation however.

Move or replace the insulation problem solved.
 
I turn the air conditioner on full blast and stay indoors, so do most people. Actually at 30C Toronto issues an extreme heat alert and people are advised to stay inside.

Ha! It's a good day to go out and get yard work done.
When it gets to 100 F 37 C, that's hot.

I'd rather live some place I can wear shorts most of the year, than freeze my butt off half the year.
 
And Toronto calls out the army when they get a bit of snow. Sorry but you guys will never live that one down :)

I'm not from Toronto but I agree with the heat alerts though. I had to shovel almost half a metre of snow to get my front door one day, we get plenty of snow where I am.
 
Back
Top Bottom