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Given the changing times, would you rather live in another country?

Would you rather live in another country?

  • Yes

    Votes: 12 19.0%

  • No

    Votes: 40 63.5%

  • Undecided

    Votes: 11 17.5%
  • Total voters
    63
Knowledge=power said:
The U.S. is currently funneling billions of dollars into a never-ending war. We have poor relations with most of the middle east, save a shady relationship with Israel. We are always watching our backs to make sure Russia doesn't screw around, as are they watching us. The U.S. is not viewed with high regards by the world. We are always in the foreign spotlight while our domestic issues continue to decay.
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Our activities in Iraq and Afghanistan have nothing to do with Scandinavian fears about Russian encroachment and their required alignment with the United States and NATO. Whether you agree with our foreign policy agenda is not relevant to the point of whether or not those countries are deeply enmeshed in the US security sphere and that a shift out of it would necessitate great changes to defend their interests.

Moreover we are the Hegemon, discontent is natural. It also ebbs and flows with each new Presidential election. The benefits of Democratic Empire. It also isn't that bad.
 
Knowledge=power said:
I have a very hard time believing this, but I am willing to do so if shown the information. Could you cite a credible source? I am in disbelief because of the millions of illegal immigrants from Mexico who live and work(illegally in most cases) who do not know how to speak english, let alone read it. Also, the number of kids who drop out and are illiterate, people who are severely impoverished and do not finish school, etc. I work in a setting where the patients have extremely low literacy. I'm unsure of how the 99% figure was achieved.



Legal immigration is one thing, however, illegal immigration, which is rampant in the U.S., is another. As liberalavenger noted, you can't just walk into the aforementioned countries. They are selective. The U.S. is a country which deserves to be picky about immigrants, why are we not? Not on the basis of race of course.
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It is hard to believe, because we've had a narrative woven over the past few years that is incredibly misleading. Our literacy rate has been 98%-100% for at least half a century.
Literacy - Country Comparison

As for our immigration, it is in the end a tremendous boon for us. Regardless of our arguable need to increase border security, the boon we get from millions of new citizens, workers, thinkers, and innovators will serve as far better than the refugee ghetto's and slums that Sweden has managed to create for itself.

I'm not worried about people coming in as long as we make a much better effort at assimilation.
 
Sherman123 said:
It is hard to believe, because we've had a narrative woven over the past few years that is incredibly misleading. Our literacy rate has been 98%-100% for at least half a century.
Literacy - Country Comparison

As for our immigration, it is in the end a tremendous boon for us. Regardless of our arguable need to increase border security, the boon we get from millions of new citizens, workers, thinkers, and innovators will serve as far better than the refugee ghetto's and slums that Sweden has managed to create for itself.

I'm not worried about people coming in as long as we make a much better effort at assimilation.
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I cross referenced that stat on literacy and you are correct, my apologies, and thank you. It's just hard to believe, that's all.

I have to disagree with immigration. The immigration I am talking about is illegal immigration. There are about 11 million illegal immigrants in the United States as of 2008. 90% + are from Mexico, and do not speak any English. Without disrespect, I doubt they are doing the thinking and innovating in this country.
 
Knowledge=power said:
As gottago said, I want to live in America, but the choice to stay is becoming increasingly difficult. You are right that the short list of successful countries do not have an open door policy, which is understandable but unfortunate. The nation is divided on most issues. I don't want to see any anarchy or revolutions. I live in the south, and people I know are SERIOUS about saying they will NOT give up their guns no matter what. I don't want to see Civil War II, right before I start my family. That's all I'm saying. I could be called paranoid I guess, but I'm trying to take precautions. I want what was afforded to my parents, and their parents before them.
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Wanting to give up isnt paranoid it seems a bit lazy and self satisfying to me. Do you think that your parents or your grandparents would have packed up and left the country just because of some political unrest? Why didnt they leave during the turbulent 60's? I mean it was much easier to relocate to another country back then.

Of course it is your liberty to through in the towel but no one has to respect you for it. In fact if you are more concerned with your individual interests I would rather that you go now so that later we dont need to deal with lackies like you. I really mean no offence but I am just stating reality. See I already have children of my own and there isnt no way that I could face them as a traitor of my country. I dont care about who thinks what other country is better or worse than America, because this is my home and I will not give it up just because some fear mongering people on the internet are naive enough to think that that the Constitution doesnt fit their expatiation's.

For the people chanting revolution/civil war/uprising they are idiots plain and simple. They spend too much time on the internet or listening to personalities garner ratings. As soon as those idiots shoot their first bits of ammo or blow up the next Federal building in the vain of McVeigh they will have lost not only their fight against the Government but also the any support they thought they had by the people. They are nothing but romantics courting a fantasy, dangerous yes but a minority non the less. People will talk **** but they will not do anything because what are they going to do? Go shoot the president, blow up a building? Seriously they are nothing but a bunch of militia wannabes and occupiers. The rest of us sane voters will continue the good fight because we are not a bunch of conspiracy new world order nuts believing the latest BS feed to us by book writing money grabbing cons. .
 
FreedomFromAll said:
Wanting to give up isnt paranoid it seems a bit lazy and self satisfying to me. Do you think that your parents or your grandparents would have packed up and left the country just because of some political unrest? Why didnt they leave during the turbulent 60's? I mean it was much easier to relocate to another country back then.

Of course it is your liberty to through in the towel but no one has to respect you for it. In fact if you are more concerned with your individual interests I would rather that you go now so that later we dont need to deal with lackies like you. I really mean no offence but I am just stating reality. See I already have children of my own and there isnt no way that I could face them as a traitor of my country. I dont care about who thinks what other country is better or worse than America, because this is my home and I will not give it up just because some fear mongering people on the internet are naive enough to think that that the Constitution doesnt fit their expatiation's.

For the people chanting revolution/civil war/uprising they are idiots plain and simple. They spend too much time on the internet or listening to personalities garner ratings. As soon as those idiots shoot their first bits of ammo or blow up the next Federal building in the vain of McVeigh they will have lost not only their fight against the Government but also the any support they thought they had by the people. They are nothing but romantics courting a fantasy, dangerous yes but a minority non the less. People will talk **** but they will not do anything because what are they going to do? Go shoot the president, blow up a building? Seriously they are nothing but a bunch of militia wannabes and occupiers. The rest of us sane voters will continue the good fight because we are not a bunch of conspiracy new world order nuts believing the latest BS feed to us by book writing money grabbing cons. .
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Thanks for the passionate response. Mildly offensive, but I guess thats patriotism.
 
There isn't really anywhere else to go that doesn't bring with it its own set of troubles, in many cases a lot worse than anything currently going on in the US. We need to make a stand here... if the US falls into something ugly, the rest of the world is likely to be in big trouble also.
 
Knowledge=power said:
I fear the government is becoming too powerful, to intrusive. September 11 changed a lot of things. It started a war which can never truly be won, drained trillions of dollars in the past decade, made it possible for the patriot act to be accepted by the public, etc etc.
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But personal privacy was already being taken away long before that as a means of fighting crime, first "organized" crime then the drug lords. Don't kid yourself, 9/11 was just the last excuse for more intrusion. It's been happening, slowly but surely, for decades and it'll take decades to get us back out. We have to get rid of our fear, first. Your starting this thread is an obvious sign that it's not happening soon.
 
MoSurveyor said:
But personal privacy was already being taken away long before that as a means of fighting crime, first "organized" crime then the drug lords. Don't kid yourself, 9/11 was just the last excuse for more intrusion. It's been happening, slowly but surely, for decades and it'll take decades to get us back out. We have to get rid of our fear, first. Your starting this thread is an obvious sign that it's not happening soon.
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The government knows it benefits from the people being fearful. It gives them power. I understand we need to get rid of the fear, which is why I had the thought of moving to a country where I didn't have the fear. Other than that, I guess you're right, its a time thing.
 
Knowledge=power said:
The government knows it benefits from the people being fearful. It gives them power. I understand we need to get rid of the fear, which is why I had the thought of moving to a country where I didn't have the fear. Other than that, I guess you're right, its a time thing.
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I don't know what other countries are like in that respect. Here it's not just the government, it's the media. Fear and outrage makes headlines, always has, always will. The good news is that, now, you're not stuck listening to it just to get the sports scores and weather. ;) I see the Internet as The Great Equalizer where formerly hard to get facts are published. IMO, knowledge is the best weapon against fear.
 
Knowledge=power said:
No not at all, as long as it is not Nationalism, which can be dangerous.
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Notice that in my Mildly offensive post that I did not go on about America perhaps being set above any other nation. I did not go on about resentment and rivalry. I put a passionate emphases on affection of the country of my birth. Clearly I was espousing patriotism. I also though believe that the US Constitution is relevant.

Of course I respect that your opinions on this subject may differ which is your liberty. But I have the same liberty to be confidant in my convictions. It all really comes down to whether one wants to keep up the good fight or move on. I will choose the good fight regardless of what political group stands in the way of what the people actually want within our borders. As long as our Constitution maintains its power (Ill skip the obvious details needed here to explain what that means for sake of space) and that no faction gains absolute power then I will be on this Governments side. But if I leave the country I have given in to those pressures that everyone seems concerned about. And this country is too big to get away from if those pressures become unchecked. Leaving will only lead to your own destruction.
 
Nope, love it here.

Could probably get along alright in Canada though.
 
I live in Germany with my wife, but that's mostly because of her. Don't get me wrong, I really, really like it here, but if it were soley up to me, we'd either be in Texas, Colorado, Washington state, or Switzerland. I'm starting to miss the technological progressiveness of the US. There are so many things I try to get my hands on that I can't because it's just a US thing.

I also miss my gun, and my mother tongue.
 
FreedomFromAll said:
Notice that in my Mildly offensive post that I did not go on about America perhaps being set above any other nation. I did not go on about resentment and rivalry. I put a passionate emphases on affection of the country of my birth. Clearly I was espousing patriotism. I also though believe that the US Constitution is relevant.

Of course I respect that your opinions on this subject may differ which is your liberty. But I have the same liberty to be confidant in my convictions. It all really comes down to whether one wants to keep up the good fight or move on. I will choose the good fight regardless of what political group stands in the way of what the people actually want within our borders. As long as our Constitution maintains its power (Ill skip the obvious details needed here to explain what that means for sake of space) and that no faction gains absolute power then I will be on this Governments side. But if I leave the country I have given in to those pressures that everyone seems concerned about. And this country is too big to get away from if those pressures become unchecked. Leaving will only lead to your own destruction.
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To me, I always put my family first. If there were an opportunity to go to a better place, I'd go (legally of course). I love this country, and I want things to improve, it's just hard not to feel so small and insignificant : / Thank you for respecting my opinions, as I will respect yours.
 
MoSurveyor said:
I don't know what other countries are like in that respect. Here it's not just the government, it's the media. Fear and outrage makes headlines, always has, always will. The good news is that, now, you're not stuck listening to it just to get the sports scores and weather. ;) I see the Internet as The Great Equalizer where formerly hard to get facts are published. IMO, knowledge is the best weapon against fear.
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I love internet media. It's where you can find either a lot of truth, or a lot of bull. I sift through it regularly.
 
MEh, I can see pros and cons.

If I lived somewhere else I wouldn't feel a personal connection to the country in the way I do America... making following it's rules/etc. a lot more bearable, because it's not my country... it's not the country I consider home.

In fact, i like the differences in countries. I think they should all fulfill their own niche, reflecting the good parts of their culture.
Part of the reason why I want America to stay in the image of the founding fathers with liberty and freedom.
 
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Knowledge=power said:
Many things are changing in the United States, and many things have remained the same (war, for example). Gun policies are changing, health care is changing drastically, economy is in the dumps, etc etc. I am not deeming any of these issues negative or positive because to each, his own. I am simply curious to see how many Americans are either satisfied and want to continue living here, or are unsettled and wish to leave.

Vote and discuss.
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We've been through worse times. I can't see myself making a permanent change of address to another country.
 
Knowledge=power said:
I want a safe place to start a family with a good education system, low religious population, progressive civil rights, low crime rate, stable economy. I hope this is precise enough. I know not all places can have the best of everything, but I like the idea of finding some place which comes close.
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Just got back home. Well stated answer. Places like west Michigan are not for you (where Hilland of the 1800s has been preserved). Maybe more later.
 
Cyrylek said:
No. I felt comfortable in Canada, New Zealand, Switzerland, UK, Denmark, Poland, Estonia - and could probably live in any of these countries, no problem. But America is just more fun - more stuff happening, more things to do.
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Really? One of the things that's been tough to get used to since I've been back is how LITTLE there is going on at street level.

It was so easy to get wrapped up in adventure in places were cities are more compact and subcultures are more readily visible. But here? Even the cities feel like wastelands sometimes. They're just so sprawling, and there's no street culture pretty much anywhere.

You have to dig for it, but with how much more you have to work to live, who has time for that?

Having fun in the States feels like a force of effort sometimes. In a lot of those countries you list, it just came naturally for me.
 
SmokeAndMirrors said:
Really? One of the things that's been tough to get used to since I've been back is how LITTLE there is going on at street level.

It was so easy to get wrapped up in adventure in places were cities are more compact and subcultures are more readily visible. But here? Even the cities feel like wastelands sometimes. They're just so sprawling, and there's no street culture pretty much anywhere.

You have to dig for it, but with how much more you have to work to live, who has time for that?

Having fun in the States feels like a force of effort sometimes. In a lot of those countries you list, it just came naturally for me.
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By "fun" I don't mean, like, nightlife. Business and science are by far more dynamic here. The quality of intellectual discourse and cultural development is also actually higher - although you do have to "dig for it".

As for the "street culture" - it depends on the place, I guess. Nothing seems to be wrong with Boston, New York or Seattle (three cities I am most familiar with).
 
GottaGo said:
I can't say I disagree, but I'm not one to just 'stand and take it' but also I'm not liking the alternatives either. At some point, one draws that line in the sand, and I have drawn mine.

There is a huge difference between contributing to the societal pool for betterment of man, and there is being held to slavery to support others who won't contribute to that societal pool. Note 'won't' versus 'can't'. We are reaching that fuzzy line rather quickly, where contributions to society are crossing over to detriment of one's own support, and I watch in anger as some gleefully proclaim it as their just due.

Given the opportunity, I gladly give of my earnings and self to those who need help, yet the powers that be declare it is not enough and I am forced to give more under threat of penalty or imprisonment. Is that a society where people can flourish? Is that a society where one wants to live and raise families?

I can't answer for others, but when I reach that line, I will make the decision to fight or flee.

(good post, btw)
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When will you reach 'that line'? seems to me the being forced to support those who 'wont', around 10% of the population, has been around for a lifetime. Are you including corporations that don't pay taxes as well?

So let's review the options, stay and 'fight' to make those who are poor pay more, force corporations to pony up more (and threaten to leave like you are) OR you leave this country for another with LESS rights and/or MORE taxes.

If you flee to Europe you will be forced to contribute (to your detriment as any money out of your pocket is a detriment) at a far larger scale- you will learn what VAT means but good.

Flee to the third world and you will have little say in anything unless you can bribe officials to look the other way, and hire enough security to keep the bandits off you... not even Joko's 50 round drum will save you down there... ;)

I understand the every man for himself mindset, but it is WE the people, not ME the people...

I see voluntary contributions to the poor about the same way I see voluntary contributions to national defense...

We'd be speaking Russian right about now... :shock:
 
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