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Should We Always Support the Troops?

Should We Always Support the Troops

  • Total voters
    51
phattonez said:
That's defense, that's different.
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Right, so there are exceptions. If troops are in battle and they need to defend themselves from the enemy and they kill innocents along the way (in a non-reckless or malicious manner), then I still support them.

Necessarily.
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Nope.
 
Dezaad said:
How is this relevant to what I am saying? Whether I agree or disagree with you has no bearing on whether I would honor the troops. I would honor them if they supported the action and I would honor them if they were against the action.
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I dont think you undestand what I am saying. And that is, if your support comes in the flavor of saying nice things about the troops, then marching in the protest lines on funding the war, we don't want your support. By in large, that was what the whole "Support the Troops but not the War" movement was about. They wanted to be able to march on washington and protest the funding that kept items like Humvees that could survive IED's and protective gear without feeling guilty about it. So in essence, they smile in a soldiers face, while stabbing him in the back.
 
phattonez said:
Despite what they do? Even if they are in unjust wars? Even if they are committing massacres?
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As Goshin already said massacres are one thing, but just remember that soldiers are sent to wars by the politicians we vote for.
 
And, the worst thing about it, is at the same time as refusing funding that would have saved lives, they used the increasing number of dead soldiers as a arguing point in their cause to pull the troops out. Its sickening, and these people should be ashamed of themselves. They are lower than humans, lower than scum... I don't think there is a word I can say in any language that expresses my disgust for these people.
 
Capster78 said:
I dont think you undestand what I am saying. And that is, if your support comes in the flavor of saying nice things about the troops, then marching in the protest lines on funding the war, we don't want your support. By in large, that was what the whole "Support the Troops but not the War" movement was about. They wanted to be able to march on washington and protest the funding that kept items like Humvees that could survive IED's and protective gear without feeling guilty about it. So in essence, they smile in a soldiers face, while stabbing him in the back.
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I am not misunderstanding what you have said, you are not reading what I have said. This will be the third time I write this: I would never support cutting funding to troops during a current war already under way. This is the fourth time: I would never support cutting funding to troops during a current war already under way. Hopefully you will see that and stop bringing it up with regard to my brand of "Support the troops but not the war". I am not sure why you keep bringing it up in our conversation.

In fact, once hostilities had begun, I believed that we must see the matter through, and I thought that my fellow liberals who wanted to just "pull the troops out" were being idiots and irresponsible. Once we begin hostilities, we have a responsibility to the people we have destabilized, ESPECIALLY WHEN THE WAR IS UNJUST. So, I was completely into whatever it took to stabilize and nation build Iraq so that they could have a chance to avoid abject chaos. I felt we owed it to them.

I utterly despise President Bush for starting hostilities in Iraq - which in my opinion he did with complete awareness of false pretenses. But, I do not despise the troops who correctly gave him their trust. I am grateful to them, I wanted them fully funded in war (fifth time I've said this now), I want us to treat them well now in the aftermath, and I want those who showed special character to be awarded recognition for their exceptional behavior.
 
Capster78 said:
And, the worst thing about it, is at the same time as refusing funding that would have saved lives, they used the increasing number of dead soldiers as a arguing point in their cause to pull the troops out. Its sickening, and these people should be ashamed of themselves. They are lower than humans, lower than scum... I don't think there is a word I can say in any language that expresses my disgust for these people.
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I don't agree that funds were cut due to protests. Protesters of the type you are describing were by far the minority, and no one in Washington of any significance was feeling pressure to cut funding as a means to squelch the war. But, if you can demonstrate to me, with verifiable facts, that this occurred as you describe, I will reconsider my stance.
 
Dezaad said:
I am not misunderstanding what you have said, you are not reading what I have said. This will be the third time I write this: I would never support cutting funding to troops during a current war already under way. This is the fourth time: I would never support cutting funding to troops during a current war already under way. Hopefully you will see that and stop bringing it up with regard to my brand of "Support the troops but not the war". I am not sure why you keep bringing it up in our conversation.

In fact, once hostilities had begun, I believed that we must see the matter through, and I thought that my fellow liberals who wanted to just "pull the troops out" were being idiots and irresponsible. Once we begin hostilities, we have a responsibility to the people we have destabilized, ESPECIALLY WHEN THE WAR IS UNJUST. So, I was completely into whatever it took to stabilize and nation build Iraq so that they could have a chance to avoid abject chaos. I felt we owed it to them.

I utterly despise President Bush for starting hostilities in Iraq - which in my opinion he did with complete awareness of false pretenses. But, I do not despise the troops who correctly gave him their trust. I am grateful to them, I wanted them fully funded in war (fifth time I've said this now), I want us to treat them well now in the aftermath, and I want those who showed special character to be awarded recognition for their exceptional behavior.
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You are missing my point, regardless of what you wanted.. the vast majority of those who spewed the slogan "Support the troops but not the war" were what I described in my reply earlier.
 
Capster78 said:
You are missing my point, regardless of what you wanted.. the vast majority of those who spewed the slogan "Support the troops but not the war" were what I described in my reply earlier.
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So what? Why are you telling me about it? (not that I agree that the vast majority did this, but it is just irrelevant to my position)
 
Capster78 said:
You are missing my point, regardless of what you wanted.. the vast majority of those who spewed the slogan "Support the troops but not the war" were what I described in my reply earlier.
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It is a misnomer to say you support the troops and not the war? Do you wish for the troops to be defeated? To Die?
 
Navy Pride said:
It is a misnomer to say you support the troops and not the war? Do you wish for the troops to be defeted? To Die?
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I don't, I am a in the military, but some do. And I rather those people not put "I support the troops" stickers on their cars. Id rather they be honest and have to say they don't support the troops.
 
Navy Pride said:
It is a misnomer to say you support the troops and not the war? Do you wish for the troops to be defeated? To Die?
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Or just for the troops to be withdrawn. It is entirely possible to oppose a war and support the troops.
 
phattonez said:
Despite what they do? Even if they are in unjust wars? Even if they are committing massacres?
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No, you should not. However, it depends on what you consider supporting the troops. Many consider it throwing a yellow ribbon on their bumper and forgetting about us. Many consider it to be the gov't continually voting to bloat the DOD's budget to astronomical levels. Many consider it to be mailing cookies and care packages to us in country <-awesome. However, if you really want to support us, stop voting war mongers into office. Stop voting guys in that will send us off as political fodder to a some third world trash can to "nation build".

Do we fight in unjust wars? Yeah, we are now. Not my fault either. If you want a military that can pick and choose what wars it fights, then you'll have anarchy. We can't pick and choose the venue and cause for the wars we fight. It's not civilized. However, we can depend upon the people who "support" us to recognize the unjust war and stop voting for the people who send us to them.

Do we massacre people? No, it has not happened in these wars minus the one wierdo who recently killed a bunch of Afghanis. If it did, no, you shouldn't support it.

The bigger point to make is instead of pointing the finger at us for starting to get a little sloppy in the PR campaign aka Operation Enduring and the recently ended Iraqi Freedom, how about looking in the mirror. Who have you voted for? What have you done to prevent me from being there to begin with? If you voted Pres W Bush, you voted for war in 2004. If you voted Pres Obama in 2012, you voted war as well. If you voted McCain or Romney, you voted war. So instead of saying "Hey, don't pee on that corpse!" you should say to yourself "Hey, don't vote for that neo-con/lib!"

If any of the above isn't a big voting issue for you, that's fine. This is America after all. You can vote for what you want. However, if this isn't a voting issue for you, it shouldn't be a debating issue either. You're a part of the problem and a hypocrite IMO.
 
MarineTpartier said:
No, you should not. However, it depends on what you consider supporting the troops. Many consider it throwing a yellow ribbon on their bumper and forgetting about us. Many consider it to be the gov't continually voting to bloat the DOD's budget to astronomical levels. Many consider it to be mailing cookies and care packages to us in country <-awesome. However, if you really want to support us, stop voting war mongers into office. Stop voting guys in that will send us off as political fodder to a some third world trash can to "nation build".

Do we fight in unjust wars? Yeah, we are now. Not my fault either. If you want a military that can pick and choose what wars it fights, then you'll have anarchy. We can't pick and choose the venue and cause for the wars we fight. It's not civilized. However, we can depend upon the people who "support" us to recognize the unjust war and stop voting for the people who send us to them.

Do we massacre people? No, it has not happened in these wars minus the one wierdo who recently killed a bunch of Afghanis. If it did, no, you shouldn't support it.

The bigger point to make is instead of pointing the finger at us for starting to get a little sloppy in the PR campaign aka Operation Enduring and the recently ended Iraqi Freedom, how about looking in the mirror. Who have you voted for? What have you done to prevent me from being there to begin with? If you voted Pres W Bush, you voted for war in 2004. If you voted Pres Obama in 2012, you voted war as well. If you voted McCain or Romney, you voted war. So instead of saying "Hey, don't pee on that corpse!" you should say to yourself "Hey, don't vote for that neo-con/lib!"

If any of the above isn't a big voting issue for you, that's fine. This is America after all. You can vote for what you want. However, if this isn't a voting issue for you, it shouldn't be a debating issue either. You're a part of the problem and a hypocrite IMO.
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I disagree completely. I believe both wars were completely just and in line with our morals and ideals. Not to mention, we were the reason thouse countries were bass ackwards and ruled by maniacal dictators. After the fall of the USSR we had no reason to support these dictators any longer, and it was our moral duty to free these people from the rulers we put over them in order to prevent a nuclear war that would have killed billions of people.
 
phattonez said:
Despite what they do? Even if they are in unjust wars? Even if they are committing massacres?
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It all depends which troops your referring too.

During the Vietnam war just about everyone was supporting the troops. The problem was many on the left were supporting the troops who were killing American troops who were on the battlegrounds of Vietnam.
 
Redress said:
Or just for the troops to be withdrawn. It is entirely possible to oppose a war and support the troops.
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No its not possible. As I mentioned before, all military members volunteer their service. So they believe in the causes they are sent off to war for. If you don't support the war, you can't possibly support the troops.
 
Capster78 said:
No its not possible. As I mentioned before, all military members volunteer their service. So they believe in the causes they are sent off to war for. If you don't support the war, you can't possibly support the troops.
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Bull****. I was at the time opposed to the war I fought in. I did my duty, because that was my sworn duty. That did not mean just because I volunteered I automatically supported the war. Nor does it mean that those opposed somehow did not support us.
 
Redress said:
Bull****. I was at the time opposed to the war I fought in. I did my duty, because that was my sworn duty. That did not mean just because I volunteered I automatically supported the war. Nor does it mean that those opposed somehow did not support us.
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Thats just simply ignorance then. Why would you fight in a war you opposed?
 
Capster78 said:
Thats just simply ignorance then. Why would you fight in a war you opposed?
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Because he had made a promise, and he has honor. What in the hell would you have done? Gone AWOL because you didn't agree with the war??? Changed your opinion to conform with your orders??? With the first you would not be true to your promise. With the second you would not be true to yourself. Unbelievable that you would call his view the ignorant one, quite frankly.
 
Dezaad said:
Because he had made a promise, and he has honor. What in the hell would you have done? Gone AWOL because you didn't agree with the war??? Changed your opinion to conform with your orders??? With the first you would not be true to your promise. With the second you would not be true to yourself. Unbelievable that you would call his view the ignorant one, quite frankly.
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There are a lot of things you can do, you can file for conscious objector status. That being said, none of the conflicts we have been involved in over the past two decades are of any surprise. We knew we were going to come into conflict with them, it was just a matter of when. Anyone who was not totally ignorant of what was going on in the last 2 decades knew were were going to be in Iraq and Afghanistan. Anyone who was in prior to that had to have re-enlisted to be in during the conflict. enlistments are only for 4-6 years, and in some cases as little as 2 years. So if you joined in the last 20 years, you knew this was coming or was happening. And you re-enlisted and supported the effort. The only people I may actually loathe more than the anti-war folks are people in the military that say they don't support the war. That is complete ignorance. BECAUSE YOU ARE SUPPORTING THE WAR directly or indirectly. It would be like working at a car engine factory and saying you don't support car ownership.
 
Capster78 said:
Someone forced you? Was there a gun to your head?
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No, I willing swore an oath to follow lawful orders from those above me. Then we went to war.
 
Capster78 said:
There are a lot of things you can do, you can file for conscious objector status. That being said, none of the conflicts we have been involved in over the past two decades are of any surprise. We knew we were going to come into conflict with them, it was just a matter of when. Anyone who was not totally ignorant of what was going on in the last 2 decades knew were were going to be in Iraq and Afghanistan. Anyone who was in prior to that had to have re-enlisted to be in during the conflict. enlistments are only for 4-6 years, and in some cases as little as 2 years. So if you joined in the last 20 years, you knew this was coming or was happening. And you re-enlisted and supported the effort. The only people I may actually loathe more than the anti-war folks are people in the military that say they don't support the war. That is complete ignorance. BECAUSE YOU ARE SUPPORTING THE WAR directly or indirectly. It would be like working at a car engine factory and saying you don't support car ownership.
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This is so incredibly simplistic. A person could see the potential for conflict, but not foresee that we would engage when it was unnecessary. That is, a person could believe that we would engage only once it was good to do so and only if it actually did become necessary.

As to your conscientious objector status: you cannot claim it for a war you disagree with. You can only claim it when you disagree with war itself.

On March 8, 1971, the Supreme Court of the United States ruled in the case of Gillette v. United States that "the exemption for those who oppose "participation in war in any form" applies to those who oppose participating in all war and not to those who object to participation in a particular war only."

Conscientious objector - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
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Talk about ignorance. I mean really, now.
 
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