• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

Who will Democrats blame for the failure of Obamacare?

Who to Blame for Obamacares' Failures?


  • Total voters
    70
The point was, both were going to keep it. However, talk is cheap. Not sure I have any reason to trust insurance companies who have been raising premiums and cutting service for sometime now. UHC would be more efficient. Make more sense. This bill isn't perfect. I say stop the fear mongering and have representatives go to work improving it.

I'm in agreement with you on that! :)
 
Wordsmithing won't help you make a point as to why the federal government should provide for an individuals care...

1. It takes insurance out of the work place. This helps business and allows the US to compete with countries who have UHC.

2. It's more efficient. That's easily measurable. The worse UHC system (and there are many different versions) pay less and over more than we do.

3. We can focus on the best practices and not on snake oil. Buyer beware is problematic in healthcare. Desperate people are willing to buy any poison with the promise of Miracle.
 
1. It takes insurance out of the work place. This helps business and allows the US to compete with countries who have UHC.

2. It's more efficient. That's easily measurable. The worse UHC system (and there are many different versions) pay less and over more than we do.

3. We can focus on the best practices and not on snake oil. Buyer beware is problematic in healthcare. Desperate people are willing to buy any poison with the promise of Miracle.

How do you pay for utopia? No one has been able to answer this simple question...
 
How do you pay for utopia? No one has been able to answer this simple question...

No one s calling for Utopia. That's a fallback cop out answer. Frankly, UHC care cites less. Spending less isn't devastating.
 
1. It takes insurance out of the work place. This helps business and allows the US to compete with countries who have UHC.

2. It's more efficient. That's easily measurable. The worse UHC system (and there are many different versions) pay less and over more than we do.

3. We can focus on the best practices and not on snake oil. Buyer beware is problematic in healthcare. Desperate people are willing to buy any poison with the promise of Miracle.
1)Insurance never HAD to be provided by employers. 2) If UHC is so efficient, then why is it so expensive? 3) This snake oil business is non-sensical. The government shouldn't be in the business of protecting people from themselves.
 
No one s calling for Utopia. That's a fallback cop out answer. Frankly, UHC care cites less. Spending less isn't devastating.

Will you simply answer a question? How do you propose to transition from an employer based insurance system? Who will pay what, and how much? I want some details...
 
1)Insurance never HAD to be provided by employers. 2) If UHC is so efficient, then why is it so expensive? 3) This snake oil business is non-sensical. The government shouldn't be in the business of protecting people from themselves.

1. No one it had to be, only that currently it is.

2. We spend more than UHC systems.

3. We spent money on gimmick medicine, commonly referred to as snake oil. Fraudulent Health Gimmicks A Booming Market That Preys On Fear ...
news.google.com/newspapers?nid=1350&dat...id...sjid...
Fraudulent Health Gimmicks A Booming Market That Preys On Fear And Ignores ... trying to educate you, the general public, about this alarming, growing problem. ... we start paying for all the snake-oil salesmen in this field, our health care bill ...
 
How do you pay for utopia? No one has been able to answer this simple question...

Good evening, AP.

Since Utopia, as we imagine it, probably doesn't exist, I'm fairly certain that the way to pay for it probably doesn't exist either. Sure hasn't stopped some from trying to convince us, though...on both counts! Are some really that gullible in believing it's possible?....I guess so, because it beats facing reality :eek:
 
Will you simply answer a question? How do you propose to transition from an employer based insurance system? Who will pay what, and how much? I want some details...

Transition?

First, we can compare system. We pay most. We give access to less.

Do you need links for that?

Sure, details need to be worked out, but revisit the public option and work the move that way seems reasonable to me. But there might vibe better ways. I'm open.
 
Good evening, AP.

Since Utopia, as we imagine it, probably doesn't exist, I'm fairly certain that the way to pay for it probably doesn't exist either. Sure hasn't stopped some from trying to convince us, though...on both counts! Are some really that gullible in believing it's possible?....I guess so, because it beats facing reality :eek:

Good evening pg. It would be nice to get a rational answer to a simple question once in awhile...
 
Transition?

First, we can compare system. We pay most. We give access to less.

Do you need links for that?

Sure, details need to be worked out, but revisit the public option and work the move that way seems reasonable to me. But there might vibe better ways. I'm open.

IOW, you can't or won't answer the question. I told you no one had. Good night...
 
Will you simply answer a question? How do you propose to transition from an employer based insurance system? Who will pay what, and how much? I want some details...

I'm not sure I understand your question. Do you not know how a single payer system works? Or are you speakingif the move from one to another. If the move, I've answered that.

As for dollars, can't give you exact dollars, but those systems pay much less than we do. I can show difference in what nations spend on healthcare if that is what you want.
 
Good evening pg. It would be nice to get a rational answer to a simple question once in awhile...

Reality can be a tough taskmaster, and it's easier to ignore it than face it. That is what has me concerned... :(
 
1. No one it had to be, only that currently it is.

2. We spend more than UHC systems.

3. We spent money on gimmick medicine, commonly referred to as snake oil. Fraudulent Health Gimmicks A Booming Market That Preys On Fear ...
news.google.com/newspapers?nid=1350&dat...id...sjid...
Fraudulent Health Gimmicks A Booming Market That Preys On Fear And Ignores ... trying to educate you, the general public, about this alarming, growing problem. ... we start paying for all the snake-oil salesmen in this field, our health care bill ...
I can agree with number one with the exception that you'll really need to talk to Teddy Kennedy about making that an imperative. We spend more on everything than anybody else. America is a big place with a lot of people. Show me a country as large with UHC that delivers the same quality of care. People who spend money on gimmicks are spending their own money for the most part. I am not responsible for their bad decisions, and neither is anybody else. I can be sympathetic, but that won't cure fear and ignorance.
 
I can agree with number one with the exception that you'll really need to talk to Teddy Kennedy about making that an imperative. We spend more on everything than anybody else. America is a big place with a lot of people. Show me a country as large with UHC that delivers the same quality of care. People who spend money on gimmicks are spending their own money for the most part. I am not responsible for their bad decisions, and neither is anybody else. I can be sympathetic, but that won't cure fear and ignorance.

Not just the total, but per capita.

I suspect your overrate our quality. I think you want me to address the myth and not the reality. Our healthcare is quite good for the wealthy, but not as good for everyone else.

This is more the truth:

It’s true that specific aspects of the U.S. health care system are either the best or among the best in the world. But other aspects of the U.S. system fall short of what other advanced nations provide. Boehner’s claim that the United States has "the best health care delivery system in the world" is too glib to accurately characterize a much more nuanced reality. On balance, we rate his statement Half True.

PolitiFact | John Boehner says U.S. health care system is best in world


http://www.nytimes.com/2007/08/12/opinion/12sun1.html?pagewanted=all
 
Most have insurance, or Medicare or Medicaid, but there are those without any of it. Largely the working poor.

The working poor lack a lot of things. High School education, for one. Education is already "paid for", what's to say these people are going to utilize their insurance that is now "paid for"? What about the rich people that don't utilize the services they can afford? Amy Winehouse for example, had an enormous amount of resources to pay for her care. Why did she die prematurely? John Candy, Richie Valenzuela, Buddy Holly, Chris Farley, Whitney Houston, Michael Jackson... All of which could afford any care they needed, they all refused (or abused).

Having access to healthcare does not make you healthy. Your argument makes perfect sense when you willingly ignore reality.
 
Boo Radley: "I suspect your overrate our quality. I think you want me to address the myth and not the reality. Our healthcare is quite good for the wealthy, but not as good for everyone else." ..........I don't believe it's a myth at all. I recently had surgery at a local hospital. No one asked me how much money I have. The care was excellent. I don't think I would've received any better care at a more renowned or upscale facility. I generally don't pay much attention to the fact checker groups because they all seem to have a particular agenda they wish to support. I prefer to do my own. Sorry for the departure from form here. I'm new here, and don't have all the features down pat yet. This is a nice site. I'm out for the night. Have a good evening.
 
The working poor lack a lot of things. High School education, for one. Education is already "paid for", what's to say these people are going to utilize their insurance that is now "paid for"? What about the rich people that don't utilize the services they can afford? Amy Winehouse for example, had an enormous amount of resources to pay for her care. Why did she die prematurely? John Candy, Richie Valenzuela, Buddy Holly, Chris Farley, Whitney Houston, Michael Jackson... All of which could afford any care they needed, they all refused (or abused).

Having access to healthcare does not make you healthy. Your argument makes perfect sense when you willingly ignore reality.

If you deal in absolutes, your argument makes sense. Sure there re accept ions, but far and away, better healthcare does provide better results. That is reality.
 
Boo Radley: "I suspect your overrate our quality. I think you want me to address the myth and not the reality. Our healthcare is quite good for the wealthy, but not as good for everyone else." ..........I don't believe it's a myth at all. I recently had surgery at a local hospital. No one asked me how much money I have. The care was excellent. I don't think I would've received any better care at a more renowned or upscale facility. I generally don't pay much attention to the fact checker groups because they all seem to have a particular agenda they wish to support. I prefer to do my own. Sorry for the departure from form here. I'm new here, and don't have all the features down pat yet. This is a nice site. I'm out for the night. Have a good evening.

They wouldn't have done the surgery outside the ER absent ability to pay. So there was a payer somewhere.

Also, no single persons experience is enough. You have to look at overall numbers to get a overall picture.

Anyway, welcome to the site.
 
Back
Top Bottom