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Do We Need To Revisit The States Rights Issue?

Do We Need To Revisit The States Rights Issue?

  • Yes, it's time we had a serious discussion

    Votes: 14 66.7%

  • No, the issue is dead in the water

    Votes: 7 33.3%
  • Total voters
    21
ChezC3

ChezC3

Relentless Thinking Fury
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The question of States Rights has long been considered a foregone conclusion. The Civil War was suppose to have settled the issue once and for all. Has it? I believe that in order for a government to properly function, the delegation of tasks and authority needs to be distributed in a means that allows greatest control to be had at the most local of levels.

I believe in order for people to be free, to really know liberty they cannot find it out of centralized authority hundreds or thousands of miles away. It needs to be close to home. Power needs to be distributed downward and expanded from the Federal level, providing a "night watchman" style of governance while additional and more specific functions need to be handled at the State, the county, and the municipal level.

The closer you are to your government, especially the representitives of a representitive government the more you are able to actively take part in the process of self governance

I believe the issue of States Rights needs to be revisted, how about you?

(the issue of slavery is a non-issue and childish. It is childish because no one in their right mind wants to bring the institution back, so please let that dog lie...)
 
I would agree with this if our national history were not rife with states abusing the basic rights of the people and the federal government having to prevent the states from conducting these oppressions. In theory, the "night watchman" style you describe is excellent. But the states have proven time and time again that they cannot be trusted. From voter suppression, to sexism, to fighting gay rights, to religious bigotry... state laws have done a hundred times more to strip Americans of their freedoms than federal laws. They had a nice 200 year probation period to prove that they were able to handle the general police power that they enjoy, and consistently failed to do so.
 
Yes !!! An american can move from New York to Texas to get away from Bloomberg and Cuomo,
an american cant get away from Reid Mc Connell Pelosi & Boehner
 
Paschendale said:
I would agree with this if our national history were not rife with states abusing the basic rights of the people and the federal government having to prevent the states from conducting these oppressions. In theory, the "night watchman" style you describe is excellent. But the states have proven time and time again that they cannot be trusted. From voter suppression, to sexism, to fighting gay rights, to religious bigotry... state laws have done a hundred times more to strip Americans of their freedoms than federal laws. They had a nice 200 year probation period to prove that they were able to handle the general police power that they enjoy, and consistently failed to do so.
Click to expand...

The federal gov't has now discovered the Constitutional right to use unfunded mandates thus all power is potentially federal. Once the federal gov't can mandate that each citizen buy private goods/services or force you to pay a tax for not doing as mandated the game of state's (and citizen's) rights is over. Today it is "private" (federal gov't approved?) medical care insurance, tomorrow it may be little "green" electric carts and solar/wind powered chargers.

Simply because something is deemed important, like education, does not make it into new a federal power. The fastest growing, cabinet level, federal dept. is ED, yet never mentioned as a federal Constitutional power. The states do not complain as they now receive 10% of their education funding from federal aid. Freedom exists only on paper and we must admit that, without any limits, federal power and its costs increase each year. States must actually tax to spend money, while the federal gov't may both print and borrow it - currently spending 40% more than they dare ask for in direct taxation.
 
It's not dead in the water. In most issues it is the given assumption that if the Federal government makes a directive, states fulfill basic requirements and then design the rest of their implementation to suit their needs and interests.
 
ChezC3 said:
The question of States Rights has long been considered a foregone conclusion. The Civil War was suppose to have settled the issue once and for all. Has it? I believe that in order for a government to properly function, the delegation of tasks and authority needs to be distributed in a means that allows greatest control to be had at the most local of levels.

I believe in order for people to be free, to really know liberty they cannot find it out of centralized authority hundreds or thousands of miles away. It needs to be close to home. Power needs to be distributed downward and expanded from the Federal level, providing a "night watchman" style of governance while additional and more specific functions need to be handled at the State, the county, and the municipal level.

The closer you are to your government, especially the representitives of a representitive government the more you are able to actively take part in the process of self governance

I believe the issue of States Rights needs to be revisted, how about you?

(the issue of slavery is a non-issue and childish. It is childish because no one in their right mind wants to bring the institution back, so please let that dog lie...)
Click to expand...

I think with the supremacy clause and the commerce clause as interpreted today has left the individual or several states basically powerless when dealing with the federal government.
 
Perotista said:
I think with the supremacy clause and the commerce clause as interpreted today has left the individual or several states basically powerless when dealing with the federal government.
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I don't believe Nullification has been as thoroughly explored as it can and should be in regards to the supremacy clause. I believe it can be applied to the commerce clause as well. States have been quite lackadaisical in their dealings with the Federal government. Either by self interest taking precedent or for fear of having the money spigot being turned shut.
 
Fiddytree said:
It's not dead in the water. In most issues it is the given assumption that if the Federal government makes a directive, states fulfill basic requirements and then design the rest of their implementation to suit their needs and interests.
Click to expand...
Giving directives and telling States to follow them through and giving the power for the States to give directives following Federal guidelines of what isn't permissible are two seperate things.
 
Perotista said:
I think with the supremacy clause and the commerce clause as interpreted today has left the individual or several states basically powerless when dealing with the federal government.
Click to expand...

ChezC3 said:
I don't believe Nullification has been as thoroughly explored as it can and should be in regards to the supremacy clause. I believe it can be applied to the commerce clause as well. States have been quite lackadaisical in their dealings with the Federal government. Either by self interest taking precedent or for fear of having the money spigot being turned shut.
Click to expand...

To amend my first response: Knowing full well that nullification has never won the day, I believe it is a matter of not getting creative enough with it.
 
ChezC3 said:
I don't believe Nullification has been as thoroughly explored as it can and should be in regards to the supremacy clause. I believe it can be applied to the commerce clause as well. States have been quite lackadaisical in their dealings with the Federal government. Either by self interest taking precedent or for fear of having the money spigot being turned shut.
Click to expand...

Exactly, the individual states are either scared to death of the power of the federal government or scared to death at having their cash flow stopped. Either way, the fed always seems to win.
 
ChezC3 said:
To amend my first response: Knowing full well that nullification has never won the day, I believe it is a matter of not getting creative enough with it.
Click to expand...

Possible, but I think it is highly doubful that nullificaiton will ever win.
 
Perotista said:
Possible, but I think it is highly doubful that nullificaiton will ever win.
Click to expand...


Well with that attitude it sure won't.... :lol:

As I stated somewhere else, I think what needs to be done is to push at the State level. Get 3 or 4 States of like minded nature, form caucuses or the like and build up the opposition from there. We won't get anywhere by throwing a US Rep or Senator into the mix, not at this juncture so we have to attack at the State legislature level first and look toward governorships. Than you've got a force to deal with US legislative members
 
False dichotomy. States have rights, but those rights aren't unlimited. Same as any individual. Federal supremacy doesn't mean states are powerless.
 
Yes, the states agreed to the Constitution as sovereign nations. They signed independently of each other, and the Constitution would not have failed if not all of the colonies had signed. The states were sovereign, and those signing up for the Constitution believed themselves to be so. These are the United States of America, not State. By the way, when originally written, it was always written as "united States of America".
 
Deuce said:
False dichotomy. States have rights, but those rights aren't unlimited. Same as any individual. Federal supremacy doesn't mean states are powerless.
Click to expand...

And when the federal government tramples over our rights, to whom are they accountable?
 
ChezC3 said:
The question of States Rights has long been considered a foregone conclusion. The Civil War was suppose to have settled the issue once and for all. Has it? I believe that in order for a government to properly function, the delegation of tasks and authority needs to be distributed in a means that allows greatest control to be had at the most local of levels.

I believe in order for people to be free, to really know liberty they cannot find it out of centralized authority hundreds or thousands of miles away. It needs to be close to home. Power needs to be distributed downward and expanded from the Federal level, providing a "night watchman" style of governance while additional and more specific functions need to be handled at the State, the county, and the municipal level.

The closer you are to your government, especially the representitives of a representitive government the more you are able to actively take part in the process of self governance

I believe the issue of States Rights needs to be revisted, how about you?

(the issue of slavery is a non-issue and childish. It is childish because no one in their right mind wants to bring the institution back, so please let that dog lie...)
Click to expand...

If the issue were to be reconsidered, I have little doubt that it would end up leaving the federal govt with even more power.

Be careful what you wish for
 
sangha said:
If the issue were to be reconsidered, I have little doubt that it would end up leaving the federal govt with even more power.

Be careful what you wish for
Click to expand...

touche'
 
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