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Has participation on this forum changed your political views?

Has participation on the forum changed your political views?

  • Yes, significantly

    Votes: 3 6.8%
  • Yes, but to a minor degree

    Votes: 10 22.7%
  • Yes, but only on some issues

    Votes: 13 29.5%
  • No, my views are exactly the same since I joined

    Votes: 12 27.3%
  • No, it has reaffirmed and harden my views

    Votes: 7 15.9%
  • I'm still open for persuasion

    Votes: 8 18.2%
  • IDK/Other

    Votes: 1 2.3%

  • Total voters
    44

joko104

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Has participation on this forum changed your political views?

It has mine. When I first was here, I was a stauch Obama supporter, what I would call Independent Democrat and more views leaning left than right. My early messages clearly were "pro-Democrat." "anti-Republican" and "pro-Obama." I had been a Democrat election judge for my precinct.

However, reading so many messages by members "on the left" and "on the right," OTHER THAN SOCIAL ISSUES - I find my self going further and further "right" and "Republican." However, I disagree with Republicans vehemently on nearly all social issues (gay marriage, abortion).

I am stunned at the extreme bigotries of many on "the left" - economic, gender, race, by their almost rabid opposition to free speech, the mass number of messages calling for people of different views to be imprisoned in extremely harsh terms - and then causing them to lose nearly all rights including the right to vote, and overally contempt of individuality, private citizenry rights, and demanding goverment control-freakism. I have learned that "liberal" mostly now is the anti-thesis of "personal freedom."

Has your views changed, hardened, or ? by participation on this forum?
 
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Perhaps my position in democratic parties is undefined and more general (or vague, non-strict borders) that I do not think that that has changed for me. But then again I only have half a year in DP anyway.
 
I've gone farther left on economic issues, but unchanged in my social views. Many posters have persuasively argued about the shortcomings of American style hypercapitalism and how, ultimately, it's bad for the people.

My arguments in favor of my conservative social views have generally improved because of the debate, I am more specific about my stances and my arguments are more sound. One may not agree with them, but they have become increasingly consistent and more coherent.
 
I've had shifts, but not "change" per se. I'm not on the opposite side of any issue from where I once was.

Two things have happened to shift me.

The first, and most common, is that my position has gotten stronger as a result of disagreement. It's not a stubbornness thing, but rather, there's a lot of social and personal issues where strength of opinion is frowned upon. I had sort of subconsciously moderated my opinion to a greater or lesser extent as a result of that.

But as I got into debates and was asked to explain my reasoning, it became clearer and clearer that my ethics and reasons for my position apply through and through, not just halfway. At that point, it becomes a matter of simply committing completely to what I believe, even if it's a very an unpopular opinion. And that has happened on a number of different issues for me, including marriage (I was also pro for gays, but the scope of the issue has broadened for me), abortion, right to die, etc.

The other thing that's happened is precisely the reverse. I realized I didn't have exceptionally strong backing for my opinions, and they may have shifted slightly closer to my opponents as they become more informed. This has happened in a weird way with economics, predominantly. I certainly wouldn't call myself a fiscal conservative in the sense it's used today, but nor am I really a liberal anymore. This has also happened with gun issues for me. I was never anti-gun, certainly, but I'm more preservationist of gun rights than I used to be.

Others things have shifted me in the last year or two as well. I never considered myself a Democrat, but I used to consider myself more of a liberal. In the last couple years, the Democrats have developed some very hostile positions on information freedom and general speech rights. At that point, I dropped the "liberal platform," and adopted the "progressive ethos" instead. Platforms are just pre-packaged beliefs for people who don't mind hypocricy.

The one issue where I'd say I've possibly flipped sides -- and this is due to a combination of things, including education, DP, and work experience -- is foreign aid. I am much more suspicious of it because of the damage the aid agencies tend to do, and the international contractss that prevent any real progress from being made. It seems more and more like resources down the drain; or even less helpful, resources that are actually making things worse.
 
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I started off here as a hard-lining right-libertarian, but after a year here I've been pulled over to the middle in economic matters. I still don't believe that the government should be master market manipulator, but I am in favor of a small social safety net, socialized health care (with an opt-out ability like Germany), and free education. I still however believe that people can handle their money and their lives far better than a bureacrat.

As far as social issues go, I haven't really changed at all. I believe everybody should be able to live their lives absolutely any way they choose, so long as it does not prohibit someone else from doing the same. It is absolutely none of my business who someone marries, what they smoke, or what they believe.
 
No not really.

This forum is so incredibly partisan that all it does is drive me even closer to what I already believe.
 
It isn't so much that I've changed on any particular issue, but arguing my issues on this forum has caused me to realize the extent to which my political values are shaped by my religious values. I've always been aware that there was a link... but it was only by arguing them here that I realized that I could honestly be labelled a religious fundamentalist. It's also helped me to realize just how far out of the political mainstream a number of my views are.
 
No not really.

This forum is so incredibly partisan that all it does is drive me even closer to what I already believe.

Keep at it for a while and you'll find the gems. And even with the hacks, it can help you come to a better understanding about why you believe what you do.
 
I've only been on this board a couple years. My most recent change, ~5 years ago: I was a foaming militant atheist, but I got better.
 
.....I am stunned at the extreme bigotries of many on "the left" - economic, gender, race, by their almost rabid opposition to free speech, the mass number of messages calling for people of different views to be imprisoned in extremely harsh terms - and then causing them to lose nearly all rights including the right to vote, and overally contempt of individuality, private citizenry rights, and demanding goverment control-freakism. I have learned that "liberal" mostly now is the anti-thesis of "personal freedom.".....

I agree with that but I would add their position is also devoid of personal responsibility and accountability.

I cannot say my personal beliefs have changed any--I just do not want to be associated with the sort of thinking/tactics above so I refuse to associate with those folks. Even when I agree with them, they attack you if you agree with them for a reason other than their exact line of thinking, so I tend not to bother with them often.
 
The one issue where I'd say I've possibly flipped sides -- and this is due to a combination of things, including education, DP, and work experience -- is foreign aid. I am much more suspicious of it because of the damage the aid agencies tend to do, and the international contractss that prevent any real progress from being made. It seems more and more like resources down the drain; or even less helpful, resources that are actually making things worse.

A renown, and controversial, article from years ago:

SPIEGEL Interview with African Economics Expert: "For God's Sake, Please Stop the Aid!" - SPIEGEL ONLINE
 
Kushinator/Cardinal/Jeezy/JP have all moved me leftward on economic matters. I'm still not changing my lean though
 
My views on certain matters remain unchanged. They are core beliefs. So, it is very hard to change them. On other issues I'm always up for hearing a different perspective. As a contrarian I ofter offer up one or two myself. Always keep an open mind but not so open that you lose your conviction.
 
Has participation on this forum changed your political views?

It has mine. When I first was here, I was a stauch Obama supporter, what I would call Independent Democrat and more views leaning left than right. My early messages clearly were "pro-Democrat." "anti-Republican" and "pro-Obama." I had been a Democrat election judge for my precinct.

However, reading so many messages by members "on the left" and "on the right," OTHER THAN SOCIAL ISSUES - I find my self going further and further "right" and "Republican." However, I disagree with Republicans vehemently on nearly all social issues (gay marriage, abortion).

I am stunned at the extreme bigotries of many on "the left" - economic, gender, race, by their almost rabid opposition to free speech, the mass number of messages calling for people of different views to be imprisoned in extremely harsh terms - and then causing them to lose nearly all rights including the right to vote, and overally contempt of individuality, private citizenry rights, and demanding goverment control-freakism. I have learned that "liberal" mostly now is the anti-thesis of "personal freedom."

Has your views changed, hardened, or ? by participation on this forum?

I'd say I've moved more libertarian, and more to the right on economic issues. My fellow posters of both sides have simply convinced me that the government simply screws things up, and makes policy decisions they have no business making.


I think less of it has to do where people have moved me in terms of lean, and more of how they have forced me to constantly revise and restrengthen my arguments. I've learned more so to stop arguing what I stand for on such a superficial level.
 
Listening to Kushinator, and JP warmed me up to Keynes. I guess I always preferred him to Hayek, but reading theirs posts really got me on his side.

I'm still pretty ignorant to a lot of economics, but hey, I'm trying.
 

I wish I could like this twice. And thrice burn it into my brain. Nothing makes me more mad then to see a fellow college student patronize me if I refuse to donate to a "save Africa" type of campagin for being "heartless" or "ignorant" when they are the ones not doing any good. One thing I absolutely loathe is a self-righteous fool.
 
Nothing makes me more mad then to see a fellow college student patronize me if I refuse to donate to a "save Africa" type of campagin for being "heartless" or "ignorant" when they are the ones not doing any good. One thing I absolutely loathe is a self-righteous fool.

When I 'nah', and mutter 'money doesn't solve problems', they get all self-righteous like that. I tell them that we need to own poverty to solve poverty, and it's not something one can buy. Oh course, they get all "what have you done" and then it's talk about me time (end game, win).

Some monetary aid does help. I don't mean to end our involvement in projects abroad entirely. I think it's best one finds an organization they can trust, preferably grass-roots.
 
I've discovered that I need new glasses since beginning participation in this forum.
 
I started off here as a hard-lining right-libertarian, but after a year here I've been pulled over to the middle in economic matters. I still don't believe that the government should be master market manipulator, but I am in favor of a small social safety net, socialized health care (with an opt-out ability like Germany), and free education. I still however believe that people can handle their money and their lives far better than a bureacrat.

As far as social issues go, I haven't really changed at all. I believe everybody should be able to live their lives absolutely any way they choose, so long as it does not prohibit someone else from doing the same. It is absolutely none of my business who someone marries, what they smoke, or what they believe.
I experienced a similar transition from hardcore economic libertarianism, though my transformation happened prior to coming here. I especially identify with the part in red... they shouldn't be master market manipulators, but people have proven they are unable to be left alone completely and still be responsible, so we do need some oversight and regulations. Having said that, right now I think we have too much. We can't seem to find a happy medium and leave it alone.

As far as the OP's question directly, there are some nuances that have been refined since coming here. I wonder if my age has something to do with this, because I had a couple decades of shaping my conclusions prior to coming here. One thing has happened, though, is that I am more convinced than ever at how utterly naive the most hardcore libertarians are (primarily in economic matters), and hence why I drifted away from that mindset to begin with.
 
Has participation on this forum changed your political views?

It has mine. When I first was here, I was a stauch Obama supporter, what I would call Independent Democrat and more views leaning left than right. My early messages clearly were "pro-Democrat." "anti-Republican" and "pro-Obama." I had been a Democrat election judge for my precinct.

However, reading so many messages by members "on the left" and "on the right," OTHER THAN SOCIAL ISSUES - I find my self going further and further "right" and "Republican." However, I disagree with Republicans vehemently on nearly all social issues (gay marriage, abortion).

I am stunned at the extreme bigotries of many on "the left" - economic, gender, race, by their almost rabid opposition to free speech, the mass number of messages calling for people of different views to be imprisoned in extremely harsh terms - and then causing them to lose nearly all rights including the right to vote, and overally contempt of individuality, private citizenry rights, and demanding goverment control-freakism. I have learned that "liberal" mostly now is the anti-thesis of "personal freedom."

Has your views changed, hardened, or ? by participation on this forum?

"The truth shall set you free". I was a lib once too back when I didn't really pay that much attention to politics. I had heard dem's were for the working man and reps were for the rich so I just assumed I was Dem. Once I started getting informed and started paying attention I realized I was not democrat and not a lib except on social issues. Most people who call themselves liberals live their lives very conservatively but are too brainwashed by our media to realize it.
 
I was a Green and am a Green with liberal social views that can simply be stated, "live and let live." I truly believe our economic system is a fraud and could collapse upon us. I think all politicians are genuine weasels and poor examples as patriots. I don't relate "hawk" to patriot, but to warmonger. I have tried to perfect amusingly concise phrases to describe economics and "Corporate Capitalism" and see this same "Capitalist Corporatism" as inherently evil. I know we are all different and try to always keep that in mind and also realize we are the sum of our experiences to explain the differences. I love a good insult with clever phrasing even if I'm on the receiving end. I do analyze other's posts carefully and try to work in areas that I share some common ground even if an opposing ground. In the end, it's all about Anthropogenic Global Warming and the lack of interest and response and the fact that "business" fights mitigation towards AGW. In short "I see the train a comin', does the train see the wall.? I've mellowed.
 
It has made me more inclined toward libertarianism, because of the amount of authoritarian-minded individuals, on both the left and right, not only here, but on political forums in general.
 
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It has made me more inclined toward libertarianism, because of the amount of authoritarian-minded individuals, on both the left and right, not only here, but on political forums in general.
This is part of why I have been heading away from libertarianism (in some aspects, not all). I believe libertarianism actually encourages and fosters authoritarian-minded people do be authoritarian. Kind of a "as long as they don't usurp my rights, then all is ok" mindset. But, if the authoritarian person is allowed to do their thing, do we really expect them to restrain themselves and leave others alone? Of course not, they're authoritarian, that's who they are and what they do. Too many of the most ardent and extreme libertarians, in my view, are either unable or unwilling to make the connection between their desired philosophy, and believing that everybody else will be just like them and respect other's wishes, and the realities of human nature. IOW: Be careful what you wish for...
 
But, if the authoritarian person is allowed to do their thing, do we really expect them to restrain themselves and leave others alone? Of course not, they're authoritarian, that's who they are and what they do. Too many of the most ardent and extreme libertarians, in my view, are either unable or unwilling to make the connection between their desired philosophy, and believing that everybody else will be just like them and respect other's wishes, and the realities of human nature. IOW: Be careful what you wish for...

To the bolded: thus the reason for having a strong system of laws in place to protect the rights of the individual.
 
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