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Live as a survivalist or die?

Would you want to survive the collapse of society

  • Yes, survive at all cost

    Votes: 34 82.9%
  • No, better off dead.

    Votes: 7 17.1%

  • Total voters
    41
Our 'Alamo' is currently occupied by 'family'. Im really not thinking about getting into a sustained firefight with a whole lot of people. I dont see that as a winning scenario. If we need to go full on survivalist mode each pack has several thousand rounds of 22lr ammo, 1 case of 45 ammo and some fishing gear, along with a good assortment of supplies that you would need to basically go cold weather camping and live for a good while in the mountains. A quick stop at the gun case on the way out and there are several Ruger 10/22s and a few MK2s, and for a bit more punch 45 carbines and 45 handguns (I'm a big fan of weapons redundancy).

I stress...I am not all that concerned about a worst case scenario. Big cities...maybe...but I think a lot of them have the potential on their current path to end up like Detroit already without a catastrophic 'push'.

I'm not exactly a prepper but I too bought a Ruger 10/22 and have a few thousand rounds of ammo for it. You can kill anything with a 22 from a mouse to a moose. That kid that died in Alaska that was trying to live off the land killed a moose with his 22. I agree if things went bad the cities would get the worst the quickest and I think the farther out in the sticks you are the better off you would be. Once the people in the cities cannibalized each other there would not be any gasoline to get to far away from large urban areas and most country people already hunt, garden etc so there would be far more cooperation and far less crime.
 
Read Bill Fortschen's One Second After.

I'm not interested in survival at all costs, but this is a middle-aged perspective.

At ALL costs, no. There are things I won't do, no matter if not doing them means I die.

But it would take a LOT to make me lay down and give up. Particularly because there would be people depending on me in such a scenario.
 
I'm not exactly a prepper but I too bought a Ruger 10/22 and have a few thousand rounds of ammo for it. You can kill anything with a 22 from a mouse to a moose. That kid that died in Alaska that was trying to live off the land killed a moose with his 22. I agree if things went bad the cities would get the worst the quickest and I think the farther out in the sticks you are the better off you would be. Once the people in the cities cannibalized each other there would not be any gasoline to get to far away from large urban areas and most country people already hunt, garden etc so there would be far more cooperation and far less crime.

Just don't eat the wrong berries. :doh
 
I'm not exactly a prepper but I too bought a Ruger 10/22 and have a few thousand rounds of ammo for it. You can kill anything with a 22 from a mouse to a moose. That kid that died in Alaska that was trying to live off the land killed a moose with his 22. I agree if things went bad the cities would get the worst the quickest and I think the farther out in the sticks you are the better off you would be. Once the people in the cities cannibalized each other there would not be any gasoline to get to far away from large urban areas and most country people already hunt, garden etc so there would be far more cooperation and far less crime.

It's a reliable weapon, dead nuts accurate, and while it isnt exactly a man stopper, I wouldn't want to get peppered by one.

We have some rather substantial ordinance at the ranch. I just really don't think we'll ever have to use it. I very much hope not.
 
I've already answered this post, but I had another thought. I don't have enough ammunition. Or enough guns.

It's not beyond the realm of possibility that power grids could be taken out by terrorists that would put us in the dark for 4-5 months. That's reality. If that ever happened, we would quickly revert to survival of the fittest. Bullets would count.

Skill and talent > stockpile
 
What good is cable with no power?

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I'd try to find an authoritarian group immediately. Law, order, and security, please.
 
I would think in a doomsday scenario that if you were to use a gun, you would also want a silencer so as not to give away your position to others.
 
I'd really prefer civilization be maintained, of course. One likes being able to go out for Chinese or Mexican on the weekend, and not getting shot at too often. :mrgreen:

When my Mom was alive, I had plans to take care of her. Had an Oxygen concentrator for her (she was on the stuff full time), a generator and other backup power to run it, stocked up on her meds, etc.

No plans to bug out... I live in a semi-rural area on the old family farm, in most scenarios I'm well-placed to stay put.

However if it came to having to bug out, it would likely have become impossible to keep her alive. She would NOT have wanted me and my son to sacrifice ourselves for her... her life was nearing its end and she knew that, she would not have wanted us to stay behind to die with her if it came to that.

Just as I wouldn't want my son to stay and die with me, if I was unable to keep up, and if he could continue on by himself and live.

Hard choices.... another good reason why I'd prefer to stick with civilization if possible.

Obviously I prefer civilization remain as well. :)

That's great you had a plan for your mom and good you had a place to be.

My elders are spread from coast to coast and down south to the bottom of California. Only my parents are in range here. There is no feasible plan for all to survive.

The idea that it would be entertaining for civilization to collapse, is beyond my understanding. One has only to look to countries like Syria, Somalia, Darfur to see how really exciting chaos is.

Sorry, I'm such a wet blanket. LOL
 
Living here in the mountains we tend to be pretty well stocked. An ice storm can take out power for days and we live up on a mountain ridge. It's 1/2 mile to a paved road and when the leaves are on the trees you can't see another house. Right now we can see one. Around here there were still militias around until just a few years ago. Since then we have all shifted to Civilian Emergency Response Teams and work in conjunction with FEMA and GEMA. We get a lot of training and even some equipment from them for free. Basicly if there is a disaster they call us and then assume an administrative role and we handle the feet on the ground stuff. The range of things you can learn in a group like this is amazing. I have a food preservation class this Sunday. There is also an instructor level pistol shoot but I can't be in two places at once so I'll miss that one.

Listen, if you are at all concerned about any of this stuff find out about CERT or CERN teams in your area. You don't have to be "that guy", you can pick and choose what you want to do, but it never hurts to know "that guy". I don't really worry about societal collapse locally, I have about 100 friends in the county who are interested in everybody behaving themselves and getting thru it together.
 
Obviously I prefer civilization remain as well. :)

That's great you had a plan for your mom and good you had a place to be.

My elders are spread from coast to coast and down south to the bottom of California. Only my parents are in range here. There is no feasible plan for all to survive.

The idea that it would be entertaining for civilization to collapse, is beyond my understanding. One has only to look to countries like Syria, Somalia, Darfur to see how really exciting chaos is.

Sorry, I'm such a wet blanket. LOL


Oh there's no question it would suck.

Now, I like end-of-civilization books and movies and discussions because I am facinated by human behavior in situations where all the existing rules and structure and support are stripped away. There are people who have told me plainly that the minute there's no more grocery store and no more law and order, they're going total amoral bandit at once. There are other people who will try to continue to behave according to the rules of civilized behavior regardless of the circumstances. Then you have others who will adapt and alter their behavior... but who will resist sacrificing their core principles and fundamental morals strongly. I think the latter group has the best chance of survival for various reasons.

However, even though I could be referred to as a "prepper" of sorts (argh, what a hideous term to be stuck with), I most emphatically do NOT wish anything of the TEOTWAWKI variety to actually HAPPEN. There's no question it would suck... and even for the well-prepared survival is hardly assured.
 
Oh there's no question it would suck.

Now, I like end-of-civilization books and movies and discussions because I am facinated by human behavior in situations where all the existing rules and structure and support are stripped away. There are people who have told me plainly that the minute there's no more grocery store and no more law and order, they're going total amoral bandit at once. There are other people who will try to continue to behave according to the rules of civilized behavior regardless of the circumstances. Then you have others who will adapt and alter their behavior... but who will resist sacrificing their core principles and fundamental morals strongly. I think the latter group has the best chance of survival for various reasons.

However, even though I could be referred to as a "prepper" of sorts (argh, what a hideous term to be stuck with), I most emphatically do NOT wish anything of the TEOTWAWKI variety to actually HAPPEN. There's no question it would suck... and even for the well-prepared survival is hardly assured.

I agree, the discussion is interesting to me too. I've seen a fair number of TEOTWAWKI (terrific way to say it) movies and "enjoyed" them. I just wouldn't want to live through them. :)

Human nature is very fascinating. I think those willing to keep to core principles would have a greater chance, too. We survived to this point owing to a sense of community and rules of conduct. Anarchy didn't get us here, that's for sure. That's my reasoning. :)
 
It's a reliable weapon, dead nuts accurate, and while it isnt exactly a man stopper, I wouldn't want to get peppered by one.

We have some rather substantial ordinance at the ranch. I just really don't think we'll ever have to use it. I very much hope not.

You're damn skippy. Got three of those and, well, a lot of ammo. I'm the local 22 guy, I've spent over a year studying that platform and testing different types of ammo. Testing ranged from production consistency by weigh the accuracy and crono testing to hunting and penetration tests. Once I figured all that out I stock 5 different kinds of ammo from range stock to plinking to defense. I've found some surprising conclusions too. I've found what could only be described as explosive hunting round (they are prefractured hollowpoints that break in to 3 equal sized pieces) to penetrating rounds that consistently go thru 1 1/2 steel drums at 25 yards and remain nearly intact flattening out in to 10mm disc. Everybody should have one. It may be the best survival tool next to a water filter.
 
Oh there's no question it would suck.

Now, I like end-of-civilization books and movies and discussions because I am facinated by human behavior in situations where all the existing rules and structure and support are stripped away. There are people who have told me plainly that the minute there's no more grocery store and no more law and order, they're going total amoral bandit at once. There are other people who will try to continue to behave according to the rules of civilized behavior regardless of the circumstances. Then you have others who will adapt and alter their behavior... but who will resist sacrificing their core principles and fundamental morals strongly. I think the latter group has the best chance of survival for various reasons.

However, even though I could be referred to as a "prepper" of sorts (argh, what a hideous term to be stuck with), I most emphatically do NOT wish anything of the TEOTWAWKI variety to actually HAPPEN. There's no question it would suck... and even for the well-prepared survival is hardly assured.

The "hockey stick" graphs indicate that this survival option might be more realistic than we'd like to think. Population, Global Warming, Inept Governments, smoke and mirror economies, ad infinitum and the problems all require pro-active solutions. I'm a survivalist and wouldn't really mind going back in time 200 years. C'est la vie!
 
I agree, the discussion is interesting to me too. I've seen a fair number of TEOTWAWKI (terrific way to say it) movies and "enjoyed" them. I just wouldn't want to live through them. :)

Human nature is very fascinating. I think those willing to keep to core principles would have a greater chance, too. We survived to this point owing to a sense of community and rules of conduct. Anarchy didn't get us here, that's for sure. That's my reasoning. :)


Exactly. Humans have always survived through cooperative behavior. Those who go total-amoral are painting a bullseye on their back... both from outraged victims and from any of their own kind they hook up with (there is no honor among thieves).

Maintaining some core values, while adapting one's behavior to the situation, allows for survival but also for the possibility of trust, which is essential to cooperation... and cooperative behaviors in small to medium size groups is what helped our ancestors to survive in times when there was no grocery store and no 911.
 
EMP is a real threat and would have significant repercussions. However, several things heavily mitigate that threat.

1: Lack of availability of missiles that could deliver an such a pulse.
2: EMP shielding is effective and relatively cheap. Most key facilities have it.
3: robust contingency plans that the government has to restore key services.

To your #2 & 3, from 2010 US EMP Commission's Report to Congress:

America—at all levels of governance—is unprepared for an EMP attack. Despite the clear recommendations of both the 2004 and 2008 EMP Commissions, U.S. government agencies have not taken planning for their response to an EMP attack out of the theoretical stages. This is especially alarming considering the official consensus on the severity of the threat and on appropriate solutions as articulated by the EMP Commission, the other aforementioned commissions, and the overwhelming majority of the expert community. DHS and DOE have both independently identified the United States’ vulnerability to an EMP attack, but have neither created emergency management plans nor taken action to better protect critical U.S. infrastructure from attack. DOD has begun to adopt the recommendations of the 2004 EMP Commission, but U.S. forces still remain vulnerable. State and local governments remain unaware and unprepared for the threat of an EMP attack.

http://www.empcommission.org/docs/A2473-EMP_Commission-7MB.pdf

As to your first point on an available missle...? Who REALLY knows?
 
I think the perfect weapon for such a scenario would be a bow and arrow. Quiet so it doesn't attract unwanted attention, yet accurate and can shoot pretty long distances (like up to 50-60 yards pretty accurately if you're good). The only problem with it is that it is kind of large and bulky. Hmmmm.
 
I think the perfect weapon for such a scenario would be a bow and arrow. Quiet so it doesn't attract unwanted attention, yet accurate and can shoot pretty long distances (like up to 50-60 yards pretty accurately if you're good). The only problem with it is that it is kind of large and bulky. Hmmmm.

Arrows don't well withstand multiple uses. I used to bowhunt...but I wouldn't want to trust my life to one for defensive purposes or hunting.
 
Arrows don't well withstand multiple uses. I used to bowhunt...but I wouldn't want to trust my life to one for defensive purposes or hunting.

Good point. That's something I didn't consider. Well then, I would say probably a handgun (for easier carrying) with a silencer, until you run out of ammunition anyway.
 
EMP is a real threat and would have significant repercussions. However, several things heavily mitigate that threat.

1: Lack of availability of missiles that could deliver an such a pulse.
...

Upon further thought the Starfish tests utilized a 1.4kt device. The calculations and predictions offer the ‘best’ coverage at 60km altitude. A W25 warhead produces this yield and weighs a mere 220lbs. Considering this it seems quite plausible such a device could be transported to altitude with a balloon… which of course is neither hard to secure or suspicious…
 
I am reading a book by James Wesley Rawles, Patriot. It is about the collapse of society and a group of survivalist fighting off roving gangs of looters. The picture he paints is very dark with prisons emptied out and no rule of law. The survivalist stay locked in a steel shuttered house filled with food and water and watch the world around them collapse in riots, rape robbery and murder. I just started the book and it may have a happy ending but it makes me wonder if things got that bad would I even want to survive. So I ask the question of you guys, survive or die, which is preferable?

By the way James has an interesting survival blog. SurvivalBlog.com

Thank you for the suggestion. It sounds like a very interesting read.

If anarchy becomes the norm, first thing we should do is kill all the violent felons right in the prisons....

As I posted just the other day. Our inner city thugs and criminals which are not in prison would very likely pose a real significant threat against the citizens of our country should a real crisis occur, particularly in our urban environments.

I'd wanna survive. I hope I get to see this day. Yay anarchy and lawlessness.

A small selfish part of me dreams of the day total anarchy occurs. Since my childhood I have had a great interest in outdoor survival and have spent countless hours studying techniques and practice. By the time I was an adult I had more knowledge then most people and would spend many nights alone in the wood with only minimal supplies to test my self. Not all adventures turned out pleasant but I wouldn't have traded them for more plush activities. Richard Proenneke was a idol of mine as a child and I dreamed of living off the grid in a self reliant manner without modern amenities, sadly my life took a different turn and I strayed away from that dream but the dream has never left me. Some of us feel that modern society with all its technology and possessions only disconnects us from what really matters in life and more is not always better.

If its going to happen it needs to happen soon! Im getting to old for that sorta thing ;)
 
Arrows don't well withstand multiple uses. I used to bowhunt...but I wouldn't want to trust my life to one for defensive purposes or hunting.

A) The newer carbon arrows are much more durable than the old aluminums.

B)In honing my (and others) skills I/we handmade bows using simple hand tools; axe, knife, sand/rocks (for sanding) and sinew for strings. We fashioned arrows from river cane, fletched with turkey feathers and tipped with knapped flint heads…one of my ‘crew’ was successful in harvesting a deer but the rest of us lost interest…but we ALL (4) did make weapons that were deadly enough...when the bullets/powder runs out one must be prepared...it still beats a spear.
 
A) The newer carbon arrows are much more durable than the old aluminums.

B)In honing my (and others) skills I/we handmade bows using simple hand tools; axe, knife, sand/rocks (for sanding) and sinew for strings. We fashioned arrows from river cane, fletched with turkey feathers and tipped with knapped flint heads…one of my ‘crew’ was successful in harvesting a deer but the rest of us lost interest…but we ALL (4) did make weapons that were deadly enough...when the bullets/powder runs out one must be prepared...it still beats a spear.

Cool! The indians survived doing it.
 
Our 'Alamo' is currently occupied by 'family'. Im really not thinking about getting into a sustained firefight with a whole lot of people. I dont see that as a winning scenario. If we need to go full on survivalist mode each pack has several thousand rounds of 22lr ammo, 1 case of 45 ammo and some fishing gear, along with a good assortment of supplies that you would need to basically go cold weather camping and live for a good while in the mountains. A quick stop at the gun case on the way out and there are several Ruger 10/22s and a few MK2s, and for a bit more punch 45 carbines and 45 handguns (I'm a big fan of weapons redundancy).

I stress...I am not all that concerned about a worst case scenario. Big cities...maybe...but I think a lot of them have the potential on their current path to end up like Detroit already without a catastrophic 'push'.

You have got my attention. I get into 'what if' discussions all the time. My thought is if one side is armed with 22s the firefight won't last long. The heavy nod to 45 cal ammo seems counterproductive to the weight issue. I carry a 45, love it but the ammo is within 50 grains of the weight of my go to rifle, the 308. To each their own of course but the 308 reaches farther with more accuracy so seems a better defense and hunting choice. Your two seem too light on one end and too heavy on the other. I'd go for more streamlined, a middle weight with a lot more reach to the punch.

Anywho I'm sure you have weighed these packs you describe, what do they come in around? I was light Infantry, just curious how much you intent to hump how far. Another question I have is how long is 'a good while in the mountains'?

I must admit I have not been in Detroit but hadn't heard it had become a Mad Max movie. damn lamestream media.... ;)
 
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