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Should people wait until marriage to have children?

Should people wait until marriage to have children?

  • Yes

    Votes: 55 77.5%
  • No

    Votes: 3 4.2%
  • I don't know

    Votes: 2 2.8%
  • I don't care

    Votes: 11 15.5%

  • Total voters
    71
According to what I was taught, it has to be someone who is ordained to perform a baptism. Neither of my parents were ever ordained.
Who can perform a Catholic baptism?

Anyone can perform a baptism, however this is typically in extreme cases. The Catholic Church has ordinary ministers for sacraments and those are bishops, priests, and sometimes deacons. Most baptisms are done by a priest when the person is an infant, but there are extreme cases when even an unbaptized person can baptize someone. All that is required is “the will to do what the Church does when she baptizes, and to apply the Trinitarian Baptismal formula.” If this is done it is usaully because someone is lying on his/her deathbed and they truly desire to become Christian. How is this type of Baptism valid you ask? Well, the Church believes in the universal saving will of God and the necessity of Baptism for salvation (1 Timothy 2:4, John 3:5).


A Guide to Catholic Baptism - About Catholics
 
Who can perform a Catholic baptism?

Anyone can perform a baptism, however this is typically in extreme cases. The Catholic Church has ordinary ministers for sacraments and those are bishops, priests, and sometimes deacons. Most baptisms are done by a priest when the person is an infant, but there are extreme cases when even an unbaptized person can baptize someone. All that is required is “the will to do what the Church does when she baptizes, and to apply the Trinitarian Baptismal formula.” If this is done it is usaully because someone is lying on his/her deathbed and they truly desire to become Christian. How is this type of Baptism valid you ask? Well, the Church believes in the universal saving will of God and the necessity of Baptism for salvation (1 Timothy 2:4, John 3:5).


A Guide to Catholic Baptism - About Catholics

Hmmm. That's interesting.
 
"and your children" implies that it's not just for THAT generation, but the generations to come as well. That's not an example of children being baptized.

If infant baptism was needed and important, why wasn't Jesus baptized in Bethlehem? Why are there zero examples of babies being baptized in Scripture?

It was fabricated by the Catholic church and isn't necessary. Infants cannot and do not sin.

Jesus was sinless. If baptism is for the removal of sin, why was he baptised?
 
Jesus was sinless. If baptism is for the removal of sin, why was he baptised?

To show that it was necessary and His followers should follow in his footsteps.
 
Honestly, I don't think marriage should have anything to do with it. You don't have to be married to raise children in an admirable way.

If you want to have kids, than you need to use common sense. Can you afford kids?

You can be in a good relationship with somebody and not be married. I know a lot of people who just don't like the idea of marriage. Does that make them unfit parents? No, it surely doesn't.

I voted "I Don't Care" because it honestly is none of my business what others decide. If it is me...I would ask myself some key questions and make sure I'm ready to be a parent.
 
If people want to raise children, then they should wait until their ready.

For many, after the wedding is that time.
 
Infant baptism isn't in my Bible.

Actually it kind of is. The same intent was simply carried out through a different ceremony wherein they cut off the tips of baby boys' penis' when they were a few days old. As near as I am aware there was no similar ceremony for girls.

Nowhere did Jesus speak of infant baptism. Nowhere did anyone perform infant baptism. Every baptism in the NT was adult baptism.

That is not accurate - entire households (to include children) were baptized in the New Testament.

Makes sense - only adults can choose to accept Christ and repent for their sins.

So children cannot be saved? Jesus was only kidding when He spoke of the special nature of those who accept Him like a child? If my five year old boy (who does sin) dies today, he goes to hell because he didn't manage to make it to his 13th birthday? :( Josie, that makes no sense.
 
Absolutely. I live a rather conservative life sytle in almost every respect. I am now 63 and came of age during the Sixties and was a firm believer in a conservative lifestyle even then.

I am a big believer that if you do just a few basic things in life, you will avoid poverty, avoid social disaster and be on the path to a solid and good life.

1- graduate from high school - any high school - just graduate.
2- get and hold a full time job - any job - just get one and hold it and don't quit to you get a better one.
3- get married to somebody better than you are - I did and I thank God every day for her.
4- do not have kinds until you are married, have a few years under your belt and are ready and willing to make children a higher priority than either of you.

You do that and you are going to be okay.
I tend to agree with this. I've always placed a lot of emphasis on #1. High school is mostly putting in seat time and learning some basic stuff. To me, it's almost a societal test to see if you are minimally capable. If you can't do that, what the hell can you do?

As far as the premise of the thread, yes, kids do tend to be better off if the parents are mature enough to commit to each other before they commit to having a kid. Tend to be, general rule, we all know a handful of exceptions I'm sure, but they are just that... exceptions.


I can always work like that. Just takes good decision-making.
If you're saying that the results are guaranteed if you just make good decisions, I strongly disagree. Sometimes people who deserve the best get shafted and people who deserve nothing luck into fortune.
 
If you're saying that the results are guaranteed if you just make good decisions, I strongly disagree. Sometimes people who deserve the best get shafted and people who deserve nothing luck into fortune.

There are no guarantees in life. Good decisions don't always result in success. Bad decisions most often do.

Getting pregnant very young. Rinse. Repeat.
Not getting at least a high school education.
Picking a loser for a partner.

^^The perfect recipe for failure. Always? Of course not. More likely than not? Yep.
 
There are no guarantees in life. Good decisions don't always result in success. Bad decisions most often do.

Getting pregnant very young. Rinse. Repeat.
Not getting at least a high school education.
Picking a loser for a partner.

^^The perfect recipe for failure. Always? Of course not. More likely than not? Yep.
More than likely? I'm with ya. Your previous statement that I responded to came off as pretty definitive, though, and didn't leave room for exceptions.
 
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Actually it kind of is. The same intent was simply carried out through a different ceremony wherein they cut off the tips of baby boys' penis' when they were a few days old. As near as I am aware there was no similar ceremony for girls.

Which isn't baptism.

That is not accurate - entire households (to include children) were baptized in the New Testament.

It doesn't say that infants were baptized. Nowhere does it speak of an infant being born and then being baptized.



So children cannot be saved? Jesus was only kidding when He spoke of the special nature of those who accept Him like a child? If my five year old boy (who does sin) dies today, he goes to hell because he didn't manage to make it to his 13th birthday? :( Josie, that makes no sense.

I do not believe children go to Hell until they fully understand how sin affects their lives. Your five your old most likely doesn't fully understand. Once he DOES understand, he should WANT to be baptized so that his sins will be washed away.
 
Marriage isn't the most important component, planning and execution are. Getting married before having children was always the SOP because part of the whole marriage thing was the supposition that you'd have children and this was part of preparing for them. It's one of the things people getting married and those just married think about. That spurs them to get to planning an preparing.
 
Though an atheist, in my opinion couples should wait until marriage. They should also wait with marriage until they've got enough responsibility under their belts. If the two were to wait until they're ready, and then they seal the deal with something as important as marriage, that should make them feel that this is no small deal. Now that they've grown enough and have shown they are ready to have children, then do so after marriage. Oftentimes I read how two people have children before marriage, and one or both of the people involved don't take it seriously enough... that they're not "bound" to something truly important.
 
Which isn't baptism.

It doesn't say that infants were baptized. Nowhere does it speak of an infant being born and then being baptized.

I do not believe children go to Hell until they fully understand how sin affects their lives. Your five your old most likely doesn't fully understand. Once he DOES understand, he should WANT to be baptized so that his sins will be washed away.

You don't believe...does that make it law then? That it makes sense to you? Honestly...

Hopefully the child will understand Baptism and organised religion are as real as your Tinkerbell and they will steer clear of all of the above like any sensible person with a grasp of reality does.

@ the OP, in fairness to the child I would prefer to be in a stable relationship before even considering it. That would probably involve marriage. But I have been married and chosen not to have a child within that marriage because I didn't feel the relationship was right for it. Therefore, from experience I would have to say it isn't the marriage but the relationship which was the determining factor for me.

But marriage does provide a bit more financial stability in law if you can enforce it and I suppose that is a good thing if your relationship goes south and you are left with children to raise.
 
I'm fine with premarital casual sex and whatnot, but birth control should be used.

Do you know what the poverty rate in the US is for families that wait until marriage to have children and stay married? 2%.

The poverty rate for the general population is 13%, more than six times as high. Plus, children that grow up in single parent households are much more likely to end up involved in criminal activity.

I look down on people that have children outside of marriage. They are hurting their children, their families, themselves, and their country.

Also I'm an atheist so religion has nothing to do with why I believe this.

I agree with you, for the same reasons. I think it's a good idea to be married when you have children, as it at least indicates outwardly that you have some type of commitment to the relationship. It's also harder to get out of a marriage than to just simply leave a cohabitation relationship. It's not perfect, but children need the maximum chance of being raised by an intact family.
 
Which isn't baptism.

No, it is merely the OT ceremony which performs the same function - welcoming the new member of God's People.


Baptism does not save you. It has precisely zero effect whatsoever on your salvation, your sanctification, it has precisely zero effect on your status as a Child of God, having water splashed on you or getting dunked beneath it has no spiritual or physical effect whatsoever - except that it is a symbol (and a powerful one) of rebirth through water into the family of Christ. It marks you as one of Ours.

It doesn't say that infants were baptized. Nowhere does it speak of an infant being born and then being baptized.

:shrug: that is correct. Neither does it say what you claim - that only adults were baptized. Indeed, quite the opposite, the NT is clear that entire households - to include children - were baptized and considered part of the family of believers. Never does the New Testament suggest that an 11 year old is different in this regards to an 8 year old, nor an 8 year old to a 7 year old, nor a 7 year old to a 6 year old, and on down the line.

I do not believe children go to Hell until they fully understand how sin affects their lives.

No one fully understands how sin effects our lives - ones' Walk is a constant learning process. This rule would mean that no one could go to hell. But children know full well that they choose to do wrong things, just as adults do.

Your five your old most likely doesn't fully understand. Once he DOES understand, he should WANT to be baptized so that his sins will be washed away.

And then on the trip to the church after he understands, before he can be baptized we are hit by an 18-wheeler and then? No - God's redemptive power is not limited by the scheduling conflicts, or riverine access of humans.

On the contrary, when my son wants God to forgive him, he firsts asks the person he hurt for forgiveness (usually his brother), and then when we pray at night he asks God. God has never, so far as I am aware, responded that He will not accept repentance until ones' head has gotten water on it. Jesus did not demand baptism of the thief on the cross, he accepted his repentance and faith.
 
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