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Do you really think women in the Military want to risk their lives in combat?[W:57]

Do you really think women in the Military want to risk their lives in combat?

  • Total voters
    87
Re: Do you really think women in the Military want to risk their lives in combat?

Goshin said:
Perhaps... I'd have to refer that question to a buddy of mine who was a Marine Corps sniper, I don't feel qualified to speculate on whether sniper would better suit women than 11Bravo.
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The Russians found that out in WWII. Woman are naturally more patient and used to putting up with being uncomfortable...

And make excellent snipers...
 
Re: Do you really think women in the Military want to risk their lives in combat?

wolfie said:
Why does everything have to be sexism..do you not agree it exists..e.g. I can speak 3 languages..I call South America..and arrange for the goods to arrive in Schipol airport in Holland......and then arrange them to be delivered to us..my male boss can't do this...And he earns double my wage!!
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I call that laziness on your part. If you can't kick your way through the glass ceiling, how can you call yourself a modern woman? If you are being discriminated against, stand up, prove it and challenge it. It's your duty. Otherwise, what do you tell yourself when you look in the mirror?

Goshin said:
Thanks Viv. You just proved that some women can be as sexist and ignorantly bigoted as any man... like you.
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And that some men have no sense of humour whatsoever. I'll refrain from writing (but knew that already) in grey...in case your head explodes, you know.:boom

Goshin said:
Do you make baseless assumptions often? Strawman much?


One of my past-times is the study of military history, tactics and strategy. Anyone who has studied this stuff to any degree could not possibly be as ignorant as you are postulating.

War is about many things. Politics, diplomacy, economics, logistics, transport, communications, intel, strategy, organization, discipline, training, weapons, tactics, morale, medical assets, and more.

When you get down to the level that infantry combat units operate on in actual combat, the primary components are tactics and who can shoot, move and communicate better.

Now, according to some of my younger current-service friends who have spent much of the past decade in combat in the Middle East, the average grunt is often humping around 100 pounds of gear in the field. That includes weapons and ammo, survival gear, food, water, commo, body armor, helmet, NVG, MOPP or CBN gear, and more.

Now, if you'd like to tell me that humping 100 pounds of gear on your body is NOT a strenuous physical task, be my guest. If you'd like to tell me that running around and diving for cover while wearing all that gear isn't a lot about brute force, please do.

Again, as I've said several times, any woman that CAN do this is perfectly welcome to fight in a combat unit as far as I'm concerned... but pretending physicality isn't a factor is ridiculous.
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For feck sake, obstruction obstruction obstruction and none of it relevant to whether women can serve. Just reduce the weight of the gear. If men had a brain between them, they'd have done it long ago. Women in the military and the different abilities now, it's just logistics to alter the kit. They need to cater for the force they currently have, not the neanderthal hulk of the past (no offense neanderthals or servicemen).

wolfie said:
Of course women cannot dig holes or trenches..or fight a man..It would be stupid of me to say they could..

But they make excellent snipers..
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eh...why can women not dig holes or trenches? Plenty of women are never done digging holes...they call it gardening/farming in these parts.

There is no need for half of the manual labour men involve themselves in. Take a different approach.
 
Re: Do you really think women in the Military want to risk their lives in combat?

Viv said:
I call that laziness on your part. If you can't kick your way through the glass ceiling, how can you call yourself a modern woman? If you are being discriminated against, stand up, prove it and challenge it. It's your duty. Otherwise, what do you tell yourself when you look in the mirror?



And that some men have no sense of humour whatsoever. I'll refrain from writing (but knew that already) in grey...in case your head explodes, you know.:boom



For feck sake, obstruction obstruction obstruction and none of it relevant to whether women can serve. Just reduce the weight of the gear. If men had a brain between them, they'd have done it long ago. Women in the military and the different abilities now, it's just logistics to alter the kit. They need to cater for the force they currently have, not the neanderthal hulk of the past (no offense neanderthals or servicemen).



eh...why can women not dig holes or trenches? Plenty of women are never done digging holes...they call it gardening/farming in these parts.

There is no need for half of the manual labour men involve themselves in. Take a different approach.
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Rubbish...
 
Re: Do you really think women in the Military want to risk their lives in combat?

Viv said:
For feck sake, obstruction obstruction obstruction and none of it relevant to whether women can serve. Just reduce the weight of the gear. If men had a brain between them, they'd have done it long ago. Women in the military and the different abilities now, it's just logistics to alter the kit. They need to cater for the force they currently have, not the neanderthal hulk of the past (no offense neanderthals or servicemen).



eh...why can women not dig holes or trenches? Plenty of women are never done digging holes...they call it gardening/farming in these parts.

There is no need for half of the manual labour men involve themselves in. Take a different approach.
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Oh sure, just cut the weight of the gear... nothing to it really...

Honest to GAWD do you not think the military ALREADY tries to cut down the weight that grunts have to hump?? Do you not think that the grunts THEMSELVES try to find and buy lower-weight gear out of their own pocket when they can?

Well damn it is a good thing you've come along to set us all straight, we'll just cut the weight load that grunts carry in half, damn we would have thought of that already if we weren't all testosterone-poisoned and WANTED to hump 100 pounds over mountains just for the fracking FUN of it...

:doh

:lamo
 
Re: Do you really think women in the Military want to risk their lives in combat?

Goshin said:
Oh sure, just cut the weight of the gear... nothing to it really...

Honest to GAWD do you not think the military ALREADY tries to cut down the weight that grunts have to hump?? Do you not think that the grunts THEMSELVES try to find and buy lower-weight gear out of their own pocket when they can?

Well damn it is a good thing you've come along to set us all straight, we'll just cut the weight load that grunts carry in half, damn we would have thought of that already if we weren't all testosterone-poisoned and WANTED to hump 100 pounds over mountains just for the fracking FUN of it...

:doh

:lamo
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Lol! That's funny! I was just thinking that if they COULD reduce the weight, I'm sure they would've by now.
 
Re: Do you really think women in the Military want to risk their lives in combat?

Goshin said:
Oh sure, just cut the weight of the gear... nothing to it really...

Honest to GAWD do you not think the military ALREADY tries to cut down the weight that grunts have to hump?? Do you not think that the grunts THEMSELVES try to find and buy lower-weight gear out of their own pocket when they can?

Well damn it is a good thing you've come along to set us all straight, we'll just cut the weight load that grunts carry in half, damn we would have thought of that already if we weren't all testosterone-poisoned and WANTED to hump 100 pounds over mountains just for the fracking FUN of it...

:doh

:lamo
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I am patient enough to wait and let you see it happen. As it must, if women are getting involved and they really are not physically strong enough to carry a ton weight (which is not a fault, but a fact).
 
Re: Do you really think women in the Military want to risk their lives in combat?

ChrisL said:
Lol! That's funny! I was just thinking that if they COULD reduce the weight, I'm sure they would've by now.
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...and the world used to be flat.
 
Re: Do you really think women in the Military want to risk their lives in combat?

Viv said:
...and the world used to be flat.
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No, it really never was, but it doesn't surprise me in the least bit that you would believe that. :2razz:
 
Re: Do you really think women in the Military want to risk their lives in combat?

ChrisL said:
No, it really never was, but it doesn't surprise me in the least bit that you would believe that. :2razz:
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what...you believe in angels...:2razz::cool:
 
Re: Do you really think women in the Military want to risk their lives in combat?

Viv said:
what...you believe in angels...:2razz::cool:
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You don't?
 
Re: Do you really think women in the Military want to risk their lives in combat?

Mathematician said:
When I said "pair them in combat", I meant do a head-to-head comparison of the combat skills of the best female candidates versus the best male candidates in no specific order. Restricting to the top 100 of each gender, how many women do you think come out ahead of the male they're matched up against?

I agree determination is a significant factor, but it's very possible to fail regardless of how much determination one has.
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Why not pit the best 100 women against the lowest rated 100 men who have qualified thru AIT? That way you get rid of the guys who can't beat a 'girl' and raise the overall quality of a unit.
 
Re: Do you really think women in the Military want to risk their lives in combat?

ChrisL said:
You don't?
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Well I didn't, but can see your picture there, so it must be true.

Do you seriously think it is beyond the might of the military to produce a kit more suitable for female soldiers, when there are people producing invisible tanks?
 
Re: Do you really think women in the Military want to risk their lives in combat?

I don't think the military should go about changing things so that all women can do all the things a man can do. Keep everything as it is and the small percentage of women who can handle it do it.
 
Re: Do you really think women in the Military want to risk their lives in combat?

Viv said:
Well I didn't, but can see your picture there, so it must be true.

Do you seriously think it is beyond the might of the military to produce a kit more suitable for female soldiers, when there are people producing invisible tanks?
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They need to be able to carry their supplies. Apparently, they need some things when they're out in the middle of nowhere. :shrug:
 
Re: Do you really think women in the Military want to risk their lives in combat?

Viv said:
I am patient enough to wait and let you see it happen. As it must, if women are getting involved and they really are not physically strong enough to carry a ton weight (which is not a fault, but a fact).
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Okay, tell me what gear you would cut...

Ammo load?
Share of squad automatic weapon ammo?
Food rations?
Water?
Chemical/biological/radiological protection gear?
Body armor?
basic field survival gear, like water purification and firestarting and poncho and etc...

Tell me where we cut it down, without creating a whole new set of problems. Tell me which of these items the military isn't already trying to find better technology that will be lighter? Tell me where women will figure out how to fight a battle with less ammo, less water, less food, where men were too stupid to figure it out?
 
Re: Do you really think women in the Military want to risk their lives in combat?

Josie said:
I don't think the military should go about changing things so that all women can do all the things a man can do. Keep everything as it is and the small percentage of women who can handle it do it.
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I agree. I don't see it as sexist at all. They are supposed to be treated "equal" and not "special."
 
Re: Do you really think women in the Military want to risk their lives in combat?

Josie said:
I don't think the military should go about changing things so that all women can do all the things a man can do. Keep everything as it is and the small percentage of women who can handle it do it.
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You're entitled to your opinion. If women want to get involved in combat, it is (or should be) their right. I don't know how US law stands, but a case can surely be made for discrimination against an employer who makes equality of opportunity in the workplace impossible and takes no steps to reduce that inequality.

ChrisL said:
They need to be able to carry their supplies. Apparently, they need some things when they're out in the middle of nowhere. :shrug:
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Supplies are not going to break a woman.

Goshin said:
Okay, tell me what gear you would cut...

Ammo load?
Share of squad automatic weapon ammo?
Food rations?
Water?
Chemical/biological/radiological protection gear?
Body armor?
basic field survival gear, like water purification and firestarting and poncho and etc...

Tell me where we cut it down, without creating a whole new set of problems. Tell me which of these items the military isn't already trying to find better technology that will be lighter? Tell me where women will figure out how to fight a battle with less ammo, less water, less food, where men were too stupid to figure it out?
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They will be forced to reduce the weight if women want to join that arena.

ChrisL said:
I agree. I don't see it as sexist at all. They are supposed to be treated "equal" and not "special."
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Sparky, how is it equal for one soldier to have every single thing organised around his physical abilities and the other soldier to have every single thing weighted to make it a complete impossibility to do her job?

Resolving that issue is not special treatment. It is provision of equality.
 
Re: Do you really think women in the Military want to risk their lives in combat?

Viv said:
You're entitled to your opinion. If women want to get involved in combat, it is (or should be) their right. I don't know how US law stands, but a case can surely be made for discrimination against an employer who makes equality of opportunity in the workplace impossible and takes no steps to reduce that inequality.



Supplies are not going to break a woman.



They will be forced to reduce the weight if women want to join that arena.

Edit: As a matter of fact, women might even have to pack along a few "extra" items.



Sparky, how is it equal for one soldier to have every single thing organised around his physical abilities and the other soldier to have every single thing weighted to make it a complete impossibility to do her job?

Resolving that issue is not special treatment. It is provision of equality.
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It isn't "arranged" around his physical abilities. It is what it is. You can't expect to give people a handicap in something important like battle. Be realistic.
 
Re: Do you really think women in the Military want to risk their lives in combat?

Viv said:
You're entitled to your opinion. If women want to get involved in combat, it is (or should be) their right. I don't know how US law stands, but a case can surely be made for discrimination against an employer who makes equality of opportunity in the workplace impossible and takes no steps to reduce that inequality.
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I'm sorry. National security trumps "Woman Power!"
 
Re: Do you really think women in the Military want to risk their lives in combat?

Josie said:
I'm sorry. National security trumps "Woman Power!"
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Hillary might not agree. ;)
 
Re: Do you really think women in the Military want to risk their lives in combat?

Somerville said:
Why not pit the best 100 women against the lowest rated 100 men who have qualified thru AIT? That way you get rid of the guys who can't beat a 'girl' and raise the overall quality of a unit.
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image.jpg

Because I'm claiming that the distribution of men and women with respect to how well qualified they are will somewhat resemble the graph above. While there is some overlap, the cutoff on the number of grunts needed will likely fall where only men fill this number of positions.

Another reason is a concern others have stated. In this day and age, you'll never avoid the BS of political correctness. Some women will complain about more men getting the spots, leading to lower standards.

Lastly, the soldiers don't need to be distracted and checking sixes for the wrong reasons. We know how in the heck males get when drastically outnumbering females in a limited area.
 
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Re: Do you really think women in the Military want to risk their lives in combat?

wolfie said:
I think that you underestimate women...Females make excellent assassins...

''The female of the species is more deadlier than the male''....

Of course..they will lose in hand to hand fighting..because of men's superior bodily strength..

But for cunning....
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Assassins? lol We're talking grunts here dude. Not some kind of Syphon Filter Metal Gear Solid crap.
 
Re: Do you really think women in the Military want to risk their lives in combat?

Rather obvious that nobody posting in this thread reads the NYTimes.

ChrisL said:
I mostly think about them trying to drag or carry another full grown adult male who is injured out of the path of danger, and now that I know they wear all that gear, I know it's even harder than I thought.
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Does the following story answer your question?

When the Bullets Flew, 'They Didn't Care That I Was a Woman'
January 25, 2013 6:01 pm
By JAMES DAO / The New York Times

During her second deployment to Iraq, Staff Sgt. Stacy Pearsall of the Air Force found herself attached to an Army ground unit that was clearing roadside bombs. They had just found their 26th device of the day when one of their armored personnel carriers exploded. An ambush was on.

The chaos that unfolded over the next few hours was not a typical day for Sergeant Pearsall. But under the Pentagon's decision to allow women into front-line combat units, officially announced Thursday, it could become much closer to the norm for women in American uniforms.

As Sergeant Pearsall tells the story, her vehicle came under intense fire that day in 2007, near the city of Baquba. The male soldiers in her carrier had already dashed out to join the fight, so she jumped onto the machine gun and began returning fire.

Outside a soldier lay unconscious. Sergeant Pearsall opened the rear door and crawled to the man, who was 6-foot-2 and more than 200 pounds, twice her weight. From behind him, she clasped him in a bear hug and dragged him toward the vehicle. She fell once, then again. Somehow, she hauled him into the armored safety of the carrier.
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Goshin said:
Do you make baseless assumptions often? Strawman much?

Now, according to some of my younger current-service friends who have spent much of the past decade in combat in the Middle East, the average grunt is often humping around 100 pounds of gear in the field. That includes weapons and ammo, survival gear, food, water, commo, body armor, helmet, NVG, MOPP or CBN gear, and more.

Now, if you'd like to tell me that humping 100 pounds of gear on your body is NOT a strenuous physical task, be my guest. If you'd like to tell me that running around and diving for cover while wearing all that gear isn't a lot about brute force, please do.
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What do you think? Are there women already showing they can do what is needed for a combat infantry position?
Ask Sergeant Pearsall, who was decorated for her actions in Baquba and received a medical retirement from the Air Force in 2008, and the answer is simple: Yes, women can do it, and I already have.

During her four-month Iraq tour in 2007 -- cut short by injuries -- she went on patrols almost daily, wearing the same heavy body armor and Kevlar helmet as the men, while lugging camera equipment. She, too, came under fire. She, too, fired back. She, too, saw friends die.

"I didn't sit around thinking: 'I'm a woman, I don't think I can carry this gun,' " she said. "And I can't speak for the men, but I feel that when the bullets were flying, they didn't care that I was a woman, as long as I was pulling the trigger."

She added: "I contributed to the team effort. If I can do that, that's all that matters."
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Re: Do you really think women in the Military want to risk their lives in combat?

ChrisL said:
It isn't "arranged" around his physical abilities. It is what it is.
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It is weighted to suit male soldiers.

You can't expect to give people a handicap in something important like battle. Be realistic.
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:)...you are absolutely insisting that women soldiers are given exactly that. A handicap. Women are to be handicapped out of combat and for some of the people posting it seems to all focus on something as simple as more appropriate kit.

Josie said:
I'm sorry. National security trumps "Woman Power!"
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It appears you are wrong, as women may soon take part in combat.

I don't believe the women who are interested in participating, would appreciate that insult to their ability. I don't believe they would go into battle to endanger national security, it directly conflicts with the whole point of military service.
 
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