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Physical Fitness Standards in the Military

Should women be held to the same physical standards as men?

  • The male standard should be lowered

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • The standards should be adjusted to meet in the middle

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • Total voters
    35
If the standards are important to the task the member would be performing, then the standards should be the same for all involved

This. As long as there's a good reason why the standards are set where they are, then they should be the same for everyone.
 
Well, passing and excelling are two completely different things. In most combat arms units, if you only pass, you're a piece of ****. You need to have a really competitive score to be respected in the slightest. Most women I knew in the army couldn't even pass by male standards, much less be competitive.

Yeah, it's one thing to meet the bare minimum requirements and another to achieve perfect, or near perfect scores. Large gap. But it worked out in my favor when I went in. Not a whole lot of upper body strength going in to the Marines. Barely got in on the pull ups (I could run at a decent clip though). I was able to get very close to a perfect score by the time I left the Corps 5 years later.
 
I'm surprised. I thought the standards were higher.

I know, right? When I was in grade school, they expected more than that out of 6th graders in PE.

Well, except maybe the running part.

For the marines the PFT is just the base. The Combat Fitness Test is where the rubber meets the road.
 
In the poll I said "other" because it simply is not reasonable to expect women to have the same physical strength as men, but they do have a role in the less physically challenging aspects in the military.

It's not about them being "as strong as men". A 120lb woman doing 40 pushups/chinups is not exerting the same strength as a 180lb man. However, because women are now going to be allowed in combat, if a man is required to be able to carry a 50lb pack, so should women. Situation dictates the need of a squad on patrol, etc. If you cut the weight that is able to be carried, you have to cut ammo and other essentials. This can be very bad.

Through extended training, especially weights, women can meet very high standards of strength. The army actually did some testing. During a six month training period, they took a group of women and were able to get them to meet all the mens requirements. Two problems, besides required training time were noted, One was a decrease in "feminine appearance", something I don't think the army really cares about and the second problem was that some of the women experienced a decrease in body fat to the point they no longer had their monthly period, this can be bad for health.

Besides physical standards, I also have to ask if women are going to required to have same/similar haircuts as men? Those military haircuts were developed through experience and are designed for safety and to reduce health problems with hair borne parasites when deployed in the field and unable to meet any reasonable personal hygiene.
 
Other: Women have no damned business being in the military in the first place. I won't denigrate the service of anyone who served honorably, but allowing women into the military was a mistake and the more direct combatant roles we allow them to play, the bigger a mistake it's going to be.

That's nonsense and it's sexist. The Armed Forces needs cooks and laundry people too.

Insensitive jerk.
 
That's nonsense and it's sexist. The Armed Forces needs cooks and laundry people too.

Insensitive jerk.

Nah, at least in the Air Force, those jobs have been given to contractors. Stateside, the AF now uses a lot of mentally handicapped people in the chow halls.
 
Nah, at least in the Air Force, those jobs have been given to contractors. Stateside, the AF now uses a lot of mentally handicapped people in the chow halls.

What's funny is that I'm wondering if enlisted men or independent contractors would be cheaper for that. I know that, for some small-time contractors, landing a military/government contract is like winning the lotto.
 
Should females be required to meet the same physical fitness standards as males? The difference in standards is astounding, no matter what service's standards you look at. This is especially true of the Marine Corps and Army standards though. Below are links to all 4 branches of the military's physical fitness standards.

Marine Physical Fitness | Marine Initial Strength Test | Marines.com
APFT : Army Physical Fitness Test | Army.com
Air Force BMT Physical Fitness Test - Military Fitness - Military.com
Guides
One of the many things the Army stole from the USMC is the duel PT test format.

For the uninitiated this means we have one kind of test for non-deployed units, be they active or reserve, and another kind of test for units which are about to deploy. The Army is currently re-tooling the pre-deployment test to more accurately gauge a soldier's ability to perform while wearing armor.

Right now the Army's pre-deploy test looks a lot like the standard test, with additional movement drills to check range of motion, flexibility and coordination.
 
Should females be required to meet the same physical fitness standards as males? The difference in standards is astounding, no matter what service's standards you look at. This is especially true of the Marine Corps and Army standards though. Below are links to all 4 branches of the military's physical fitness standards.

Marine Physical Fitness | Marine Initial Strength Test | Marines.com
APFT : Army Physical Fitness Test | Army.com
Air Force BMT Physical Fitness Test - Military Fitness - Military.com
Guides

Yes - they should be the same . . . and honestly - reading through the differences. I have no clue why on earth women can't just do pull ups and instead they do the arm-hang? Why can't they run the mile in 13:30 and instead are good to go at 15:00?

See - the differences, honestly, make no freakin sense - I can accomplish all tasks for males within their allotted time except for the run (I can't do a mile at all because it's not in my interest to train for it)
 
Yes - they should be the same . . . and honestly - reading through the differences. I have no clue why on earth women can't just do pull ups and instead they do the arm-hang? Why can't they run the mile in 13:30 and instead are good to go at 15:00?

See - the differences, honestly, make no freakin sense - I can accomplish all tasks for males within their allotted time except for the run (I can't do a mile at all because it's not in my interest to train for it)

I guess enough women couldn't cut it so the military dumb down standards.
 
That is not what I said, nor is it true. There are women who can kick your ass at each event in a PFT. You are making broad generalizations that are incomplete at best.
Well, guess what. I score a 300 and have yet to meet a woman that can do it. And whomever this mythological woman is, is not the standard nor is she even someone I've ever heard of in almost 15 years of service. Your retort is the result of your realization that you have no argument as to why women shouldn't be held to the same standard as men. They should be. That is equality in it's purest form. Same standards, same living areas, same jobs. Well, we have the last one covered at least.
 
You're positively correct. In my previous unit (173rd ABN), you had to have 270 out of 300 in order to hold a leadership position, and if you dropped below that you were relieved. Airborne has the mentality that our leaders should be the hardest mother ****ers in the unit, and the first out the plane.



Well, passing and excelling are two completely different things. In most combat arms units, if you only pass, you're a piece of ****. You need to have a really competitive score to be respected in the slightest. Most women I knew in the army couldn't even pass by male standards, much less be competitive.
Well said sir. You're right, in the Marine Corps, if a dude does 8 pull ups and runs a 21 minute 3 miles, he's on remedial PT. Those, btw, are the maximum points for a female PFT. Marines follow the alpha. The alpha has to be able to destroy his subordinates in some way physically. Whether it be in MCMAP (martial arts), a PFT, the Combat Fitness Test, or just being stronger. What woman will be able to do that? None of them. Some will be able to hang with the upper 50% of a platoon, but none will be in the top 10%. It will always be, "She's pretty strong for a chick."
 
What's funny is that I'm wondering if enlisted men or independent contractors would be cheaper for that. I know that, for some small-time contractors, landing a military/government contract is like winning the lotto.

During the Clinton draw down, a lot was contracted out. Some claim it is cheaper, but I don't see it. But then people don't complain about civilian jobs from the military nearly as much as they complain about troop levels. The States do doubt love the contractors instead of troops, they get to collect taxes from the contractors, not to mention upping employment numbers.
 
During the Clinton draw down, a lot was contracted out. Some claim it is cheaper, but I don't see it. But then people don't complain about civilian jobs from the military nearly as much as they complain about troop levels. The States do doubt love the contractors instead of troops, they get to collect taxes from the contractors, not to mention upping employment numbers.
I think it's cheaper for simple fact that medical care and retirement isn't in the equation. I know contractors make bank, especially in country, but I guess the gov't has to make it competitive if they're not offering benefits.
 
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