• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

Which most concerns Libs? The Black condition or Liberal ideology?

Which most concerns Libs? The Black condition or Liberal ideology?

  • Blacks

    Votes: 1 16.7%

  • Liberal ideology

    Votes: 3 50.0%

  • Other

    Votes: 2 33.3%
  • Total voters
    6
Redress said:
They are in an entirely different situation and are not liberal as the US liberal sees the term.
Click to expand...


The state in which you live has more people than the most populous Scandinavian country for starters, as well as its having a much more heterogeneous population.
 
The subject is so ripe for discussion that already we have some very good posts dealing with a broad spectrum of the racial issue in addition to a strict adherence to the poll question, which is whether libs are more concerned with their own ideology or with the Black condition?

Because of Liberal ideology we have cities like Detroit.
 
Gipper said:
Do they want that though? I don't see much in white culture that revels in living within the confines of poverty and violence. In white culture, I don't think "thug" and "gangsta" and "pimp" are compliments like they are amongst blacks.

Is the system I described not racial? Absolutely not. You see poverty-stricken whites all over the place. I guess I just see a larger effort for them to get "out of the trailer parks" than I do blacks for getting "out of the hood". Could I be wrong? Absolutely. It's still what I see though.

To me, it's just about who's willing to pull themselves up and out by the bootstraps. Anyone willing to do that, I'm more than willing to see them halfway.
Click to expand...

A much improved wording than the post to which I repied, thank you. To answer your question, yes. Not all, but certainly many, would give up the "security" of a ghetto life if that option were offered. The reason that many remain in the "trailer park" or "urban hood" is that is simply where they are and the benefits recieved are based upon that alone.

Try going to the public assitance office and asking for a money to buy a car, cover three months rent at 3x your current rate, a reasonable amount for food and temporary living expenses and help in finding employment anywhere outside of that zip code. Tell them that you are willing to risk it all for that chance and promise to never return and ask for another dime of public assistance. When the laughter susbsides and after they recommend a drug treatment program, they will tell you that no such service/program exists, since liberals have not allowed that option.

You can easily get funding to maintain your current dead end lifestyle, cowering behind bars in the projects, but that is it, no escape is possible and each year your children fall further behind in their "advertised" educational level, get more tempted by the "benefits" of a criminal lifestyle (or having a baby to get "their own place") and see that "choice" as better than a part-time McJob or working at the truck stop.
 
marsden said:
Which most concerns Libs? The Black condition or Liberal ideology?
Click to expand...

OK, lemme explain this as clear as I can. Liberalism--classical liberalism--favors free markets, i. e. capitalism.

In a capitalist system, stealing is not allowed. Stealing is when you take something that doesn't belong to you, including your someone's personal freedom, without justification (as opposed to in retaliation for another person stealing from you).

So when a person, private organization, or government takes and/or screws up your property and freedom without your permission, you are expected to be compensated by the person/organization/organization who stole it or messed it up.

200 years ago, Blacks were forcibly taken from Africa against their will, forced into cramped cargo areas of boats, and transported to the Americas without justification by the US government.

Therefore, in accordance w/capitalism, they must be compensated, or else they're entitled to retaliate against that government for theft of freedom.

Liberalism is where no one gets a free lunch :) Not even the government.
 
Redress said:
No one has implemented a truly liberal government. Those failures could just as easily be blamed on having to make compromises with conservatives.
Click to expand...

I think that's a big part of the problem. When the liberal plans don't work the liberal response is generally "It wasn't liberal enough!". Why not try a different method instead of piling more problems on top of something that's already a problem?
 
The liberal agenda is to win elections. The rest is just details.
 
Gipper said:
It'd be hard to screw it up, when you have that much money and that little population.
Click to expand...

They didn't find sacks of money throughout the country...their wealth is in part a result of their policies. They've made a conscience effort to invest in human capital, infrastructure, and to ensure that the gains are shared in an equitable manner.
 
iliveonramen said:
They didn't find sacks of money throughout the country...their wealth is in part a result of their policies. They've made a conscience effort to invest in human capital, infrastructure, and to ensure that the gains are shared in an equitable manner.
Click to expand...

They found sacks of money off their coast, possibly in international waters.
 
iliveonramen said:
They didn't find sacks of money throughout the country...their wealth is in part a result of their policies. They've made a conscience effort to invest in human capital, infrastructure, and to ensure that the gains are shared in an equitable manner.
Click to expand...

THey found the leprechauns pot o gold

Oh wait thats Ireland....never mind.
 
At what point does personal responsibility kick in? Why haven't the blacks reacted against the crime and violence in their communities, they're not helpless. They have allowed their presence in the United States to be one of extreme negativity, allowed their neighborhoods to become places where whites and other races do NOT go under any circumstances.

They have allowed their racial characteristics to become illegitimate children, shooting deaths, ridicule of education, etc., etc. Why didn't they speak out against the Ice T Cop Killer album? Why do they demand that others pretend Rap is music? Why do they accept sex, violence, drugs, crime and lack of a language to be their standards? How hard is it to clean your yard and sweep your sidewalk?

It is time for blacks to say "Enough." But they don't and won't. Now they are being replaced throughout California by Mexicans and Asians taking their neighborhoods and jobs, but they all still vote for the liberals that are destroying them. Will they even notice when foreigners take over the Apollo Theater and the rest of Harlem?
 
Last edited:
There is no question that liberals do an impressive job of expressing concern for blacks. But do the intentions expressed in their words match the actual consequences of their deeds?

San Francisco is a classic example of a city unexcelled in its liberalism. But the black population of San Francisco today is less than half of what it was back in 1970, even though the city's total population has grown.

Severe restrictions on building housing in San Francisco have driven rents and home prices so high that blacks and other people with low or moderate incomes have been driven out of the city. The same thing has happened in a number of other California communities dominated by liberals.
Click to expand...

From the linked article in the OP.

I used to live in San Francisco, but the housing costs pushed me out. I'm Black and Conservative and despite the fact that it has a predominately liberal population I enjoyed living there.
 
marsden said:
From the linked article in the OP.

I used to live in San Francisco, but the housing costs pushed me out. I'm Black and Conservative and despite the fact that it has a predominately liberal population I enjoyed living there.
Click to expand...

Oddly, the editorial linked does not mention that San Francisco does have a larger minority makeup than it used to have(in 1980 , 59.2 % white, 2010 48.5 %). I wonder why that is? Dishonest, or just stupid?

There is a reason why people should not get their information from editorials.
 
Redress said:
Oddly, the editorial linked does not mention that San Francisco does have a larger minority makeup than it used to have(in 1980 , 59.2 % white, 2010 48.5 %). I wonder why that is? Dishonest, or just stupid?

There is a reason why people should not get their information from editorials.
Click to expand...

Linky?

I'd guess the greater increases in minority population, if your info bears out, came from Asians. And I think they weren't part of Sowell's focus.
 
Last edited:
marsden said:
Linky?
Click to expand...

On kindle so can't link right now. Source was wiki article on San Francisco. If you need link I will get it for you later.
 
If you cut n paste a small text block I'll google it. Thanx.

BTW, my Mom is thinking of getting a Kindle. Don't they allow url's to be cut n pasted?

[Columbo]Oh, and despite your apparent unfamiliarity with Thomas Sowell, he really is almost universally respected as a thinker and writer.[/Columbo]
 
Last edited:
marsden said:
If you cut n paste a small text block I'll google it. Thanx.

BTW, my Mom is thinking of getting a Kindle. Don't they allow url's to be cut n pasted?
Click to expand...

It can be done, but it is a royal pain. Moreso because my hands still don't work right.

Moved to comp a minute: San Francisco - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Numbers come from chart, which comes from census data.
 
Redress said:
It can be done, but it is a royal pain. Moreso because my hands still don't work right.

Moved to comp a minute: San Francisco - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Numbers come from chart, which comes from census data.
Click to expand...


Hmmm, the chart I'm looking at shows a decrease in Black population from 1980 to 2010.

12.7% in 1980

6.1% in 2010

Are we looking at the same chart?
 
marsden said:
Hmmm, the chart I'm looking at shows a decrease in Black population from 1980 to 2010.

12.7% in 1980

6.1% in 2010

Are we looking at the same chart?
Click to expand...

I did not say black population was not down, I said minority population was up.

One nice thing about being a liberal, we are for all people, whites, minorities, poor, rich, urban or rural. Conservatives have a perception problem, fairly or unfairly, of being for rich white males.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom