• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

Is It Time To Close Guantanamo Bay?

Is it time to close Guantanamo Bay?

  • Total voters
    36
T

TheDemSocialist

Gradualist
DP Veteran
Joined
Apr 13, 2011
Messages
34,951
Reaction score
16,311
Gender
Undisclosed
Political Leaning
Socialist
Is it time to close Guantanamo Bay after seeing stats like this?:
779 persons have been imprisoned in Guantanamo since January 11, 2002.166 prisoners are still detained in Guantanamo.
603 prisoners have been released.
1 Guantanamo prisoner has been convicted by US federal courts (Ahmed Ghalilani).
9 have died in Guantanamo, 6 allegedly by suicide and 3 of "natural causes." (3 from Afghanistan, 3 from Saudi Arabia and 3 from Yemen).
Only 6 of the 779 prisoners have been put before a military commission.
4 prisoners eventually agreed to plea bargains.
1 prisoner has been convicted in a military commission.
1 prisoner is still at trial.
87 prisoners of the 166 (one-half) have been "cleared for transfer" by senior officials six US government agencies, but have not been released.
90 of the 166 are from Yemen, 18 from Afghanistan, 8 from Saudi Arabia, 7 from Algeria, 6 from Pakistan, 5 from Tunisia, 4 from China, 4 from Libya, 3 the Palestinian Territories, 3 from Syria, 2 from Mauritania, 2 from Uzbekistan, 2 from Malaysia, 2 from Sudan, 2 from Kuwait and one each from Kenya, Indonesia, Russia, Morocco, Somalia, Bosnia, Iraq and Tajikistan.
30 of those cleared for release are from Yemen and are being held until "conditions in the country improve," which means with US drone strikes in Yemen increasing, they will not be released for a long time, much less the other 60 from Yemen.
Only 16 prisoners are considered "high value" (3 from Pakistan, 2 from Afghanistan, 2 Saudi Arabia, 2 Yemen, 2 Malaysia, 1 Indonesia, 1 Somalia, 1 Palestinian Territories, 1 Iraq, 1 Libya).
36 prisoners have now been designated for trial.
46 prisoners have been designated by the Obama administration for indefinite detention without charge or trial.
38 prisoners have been determined to be held unlawfully by US Federal Courts.
$27,251 -- yearly cost to US taxpayers of a federal prisoner.
$800,000 -- yearly cost to US taxpayer of a Guantanamo prisoner.
$150 million -- yearly cost to operate Guantanamo.
Nearly 500 persons have been convicted by Federal Courts since 9/11 on terror-related charges.
355 persons convicted in Federal Courts of terror-related charges currently are being held in US Federal prisons.
0 persons convicted in Federal Courts of terror-related charges have escaped from any part of the Federal prison system.
4 cases involving Guantanamo prisoner rights have gone to the US Supreme Court.
In all 4 cases involving Guantanamo prisoner rights, the Supreme Court justices have sided with the prisoners.
Click to expand...


So is it time to close this and move them to the US to be held and or charged?





http://www.opednews.com/articles/2/11-Years-of-Infamy--US-A-by-Ann-Wright-130113-117.html
 
Last edited:
No, it would confusing. Up to now, we know for certain that what is happen not is 100% exactly opposition from what President Obama claims. If Gitmo was closed then he would have kept a 2008 promise only 5 years late. His actually keeping a promise would really make maters confusing.
 
i wasn't ever comfortable with indefinite detention. if we don't have an existing method to try "enemy combatants," then we need to devise one. holding people forever without trial is not what our country is about.

that being said, i recognize how complex this problem is.
 
joko104 said:
No, it would confusing. Up to now, we know for certain that what is happen not is 100% exactly opposition from what President Obama claims. If Gitmo was closed then he would have kept a 2008 promise only 5 years late. His actually keeping a promise would really make maters confusing.
Click to expand...

Confusing? In what way?
 
When has it not been the time to close Guantamano Bay?
 
Yup it's time to close it, and for this reason:

$800,000 -- yearly cost to US taxpayer of a Guantanamo prisoner.
$150 million -- yearly cost to operate Guantanamo.
Click to expand...

Couldn't give half a damn about the Muslim extremists, but I care about the bottom line.
 
Republicans still don't seem to think so if the recent NDAA is to be believed.
 
Put them on Obama's "hit list", let them out (with tracking device implanted?) and zap them, at repectable intervals, via a drone strike, hopefully with a carload (tent full?) of their best friends. ;)
 
Yes. Absolutely. We should have done it years ago. It is a travesty. Once we pull out of Afghanistan we will have absolutely no moral standing whatsoever to justify indefinite detention without trial. Give them a trial and execute them; send them home; whatever, but it needs to be ended.
 
Guantanamo has the same reputation as the Russian gulags. Rendition, torture, detention wihout trial, the American Way. That would be us, collectively. Guantanamo is a reflection of ourselves because we have allowed this. I don't know how we would have stopped it, but we allowed it. Obama said he'd close it and did not and still was re-elected.
The People have spoken and noone is listening.
 
A couple immediate benefits to having Guantanamo remain open come to mind:

Having these Muslims incarcerated and out of action has saved countless lives. How many innocent people would each of them have killed if not locked up?

The fact of these people being kept there at enormous costs is a good message to American soldiers to shoot to kill in the field, taking no prisoners closes Guantanamo by attrition.
 
Gipper said:
Yup it's time to close it, and for this reason:



Couldn't give half a damn about the Muslim extremists, but I care about the bottom line.
Click to expand...

How have you determined that these prisoners are "Muslim extremist"?
 
Ray410 said:
Having these Muslims incarcerated and out of action has saved countless lives. How many innocent people would each of them have killed if not locked up?
Click to expand...

If this is your argument then you tell us.
 
Helix said:
i wasn't ever comfortable with indefinite detention. if we don't have an existing method to try "enemy combatants," then we need to devise one. holding people forever without trial is not what our country is about.

that being said, i recognize how complex this problem is.
Click to expand...
Pretty much my thoughts as well.


DaveFagan said:
Guantanamo has the same reputation as the Russian gulags. Rendition, torture, detention wihout trial, the American Way. That would be us, collectively. Guantanamo is a reflection of ourselves because we have allowed this. I don't know how we would have stopped it, but we allowed it. Obama said he'd close it and did not and still was re-elected.
The People have spoken and noone is listening.
Click to expand...
Comparing it to Russian gulags is hyperbolic, but we certainly do have some issues of our own that we should be ashamed.
 
Ray410 said:
Having these Muslims incarcerated and out of action has saved countless lives. How many innocent people would each of them have killed if not locked up?
Click to expand...
Hello? The choice isn't between having them locked up at Guantanamo and having them free and running wild in the streets. It's merely a question of where they will be locked up. Republicans have been pandering to the paranoids and delusionals again by prohibiting the use of any funds to move anyone from Guantanamo to anywhere and also the use of any funds to house prisoners anywhere in the US. They'd rather just keep Gitmo around as a propaganda tool than see the matter sensibly resolved. The one possible bright spot is that the language of previous funding bans was open-ended where that in the NDAA signed last week is specific only to the current fiscal year. It may be possible to run some sort of end-around come autumn.
 
Obama closed this prison in January of 2009 just like he promised.
 
Fletch said:
Obama closed this prison in January of 2009 just like he promised.
Click to expand...
He ordered it closed. But Republicans and their scare tactics have to date been successful in cutting off the funding needed to carry out that order. We need to de-elect a few more Republicans next time around.
 
Keep it open. Keep them there. Don't let any swinging one of the prisoners near the U.S. Let them all die there.
 
Cardinal Fang said:
He ordered it closed. But Republicans and their scare tactics have to date been successful in cutting off the funding needed to carry out that order. We need to de-elect a few more Republicans next time around.
Click to expand...

lol I hope the Obama camp is at least paying you well. It would be a shame to see you flush your credibility down the toilet for free.
 
I voted other, reform it and create greater transparency in terms of standardized procedures for detainees, clarification of status for them, eventual outcome for each, etc. But I think it is important to create a delineation between criminal courts, POW's, and captured combatants in the War on Terror, send some along to the courts if you think necessary, but keep that line in place.
 
The whole point of Guantanamo was to get around established laws, it should never have been used for prisoners. The prisoners should be treated as POWs per the Geneva conventions, given a legitimate trial in the USA or set free. I don't buy the arguments that we need a special category of criminal/combatant so the established laws can be circumvented. Obama should have used an executive order to move the prisoners to the USA and put them on trial as he (supposedly) originally intended to do.

By the way, there is good reason to believe that some of the prisoners may be innocent, or too small-time to be worth incarcerating.
 
Last edited:
Hard Truth said:
Obama should have used an executive order to move the prisoners to the USA and put them on trial as he (supposedly) originally intended to do.
Click to expand...
Such an order was issued on January 22, 2009. But funding for these purposes is still required and for partisan reasons, Republicans would rather have Gitmo around than closed. They have managed to block funding ever since.

Hard Truth said:
By the way, there is good reason to believe that some of the prisoners may be innocent, or too small-time to be worth incarcerating.
Click to expand...
Not so much anymore. The small fry and non-fry were mostly returned home or released to a third country that agreed to take them. Those who have been cleared for release but are still at Guantanamo Bay face serious security questions should they be returned to their home country if that country happens to be China or Saudi Arabia.
 
Keep it open.
 
Shut it down. Literally the only people I can imagine who still care about keeping it open at this point are the grunts whose paychecks depend on it.
 
Hard Truth said:
The whole point of Guantanamo was to get around established laws, it should never have been used for prisoners. The prisoners should be treated as POWs per the Geneva conventions, given a legitimate trial in the USA or set free. I don't buy the arguments that we need a special category of criminal/combatant so the established laws can be circumvented. Obama should have used an executive order to move the prisoners to the USA and put them on trial as he (supposedly) originally intended to do.

By the way, there is good reason to believe that some of the prisoners may be innocent, or too small-time to be worth incarcerating.
Click to expand...

Or not since those POW don't meet the requirments for Geneva protection. Their trails should be military tribunial.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom