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Is The Pledge of Allegiance a Form of Brainwashing/Indoctrination?

Is the Pledge of Allegiance a Form of Brainwashing/Indoctrination?

  • Total voters
    29
I picked other, because of course it is. But I think its fine.
 
I voted no, but after further thought i could see how it could be to someone with a tendency to accept doctrine....sort of like a McDonald's commercial if you're already hungry.
 
Gipper said:
I don't trust indoctrination either, and I'm not a POA fan.

Therefore, the Christian Socialist created something I don't agree with.

Well, I guess there goes one of the few things I can agree with most socialists on, huh?
Therefore
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Was written by a radical Christian Socialist Francis Bellamy in 1892 who wanted to usher in a Christian Socialist Utopia. Also like our money the "under god" wasn't included in until the 50's.

Here is a photo of students reciting the Pledge in 1941, you will see the close resemblance to that of the National Socialists in Germany. Yes it's all about indoctrination and brainwashing of the Herd, those who think for themselves are a threat to the "Herd".

Students_pledging_allegiance_to_the_American_flag_with_the_Bellamy_salute.jpg
 
Pagan said:
Was written by a radical Christian Socialist Francis Bellamy in 1892 who wanted to usher in a Christian Socialist Utopia. Also like our money the "under god" wasn't included in until the 50's.

Here is a photo of students reciting the Pledge in 1941, you will see the close resemblance to that of the National Socialists in Germany. Yes it's all about indoctrination and brainwashing of the Herd, those who think for themselves are a threat to the "Herd".

View attachment 67140727
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And it was modified to hand over the heart. Without the Hitler connotation, your "spooky" connection would have no impact.
 
Not NO, but Hell no !
Indoctrination, propaganda, brainwashing ignites negative connotations.
YES, I favor rebellion, but at the beginning of each school day is not the place nor time..
A degree of nationalism is good.....its a very competitive world ...I'll bet that the Chinese and Russians have their patriotic practices.
 
Gipper said:
It makes sense. Socialists hate America, and Libertarians hate jingoism. Stands to reason that they'd both hate American jingoism.
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Why do people say these things, why do they spread these lies ??
Socialists do NOT hate America...of course, there are exceptions..
But they do abhor extremism and imperialism....
 
earthworm said:
Why do people say these things, why do they spread these lies ??
Socialists do NOT hate America...of course, there are exceptions..
But they do abhor extremism and imperialism....
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People are still caught up in the communist hysteria, where they associate communism and socialism as 1.
 
Fiddytree said:
And it was modified to hand over the heart. Without the Hitler connotation, your "spooky" connection would have no impact.
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No "Spooky" connection, just the reality of the foundation and intention of the pledge.
 
Pagan said:
No "Spooky" connection, just the reality of the foundation and intention of the pledge.
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Right, because since Hitler adopts a salute much later, the gesture is therefore bad.
 
Fiddytree said:
Right, because since Hitler adopts a salute much later, the gesture is therefore bad.
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It's obvious you just don't get it,

I suggest doing a bit of research on Frances Bellamy and his goals of bringing about a Socialist Ethiopia. Bellamy was also a self-proclaimed national socialist and a member of the "Nationalism" movement and a vice president of its socialist auxiliary group, whose members wanted the federal government to nationalize the American economy. Also take a look at his cousin author Edward Bellamy and his work, he wrote a number of socialist novels and was popular in his day.
 
Pagan said:
It's obvious you just don't get it,

I suggest doing a bit of research on Frances Bellamy and his goals of bringing about a Socialist Ethiopia. Bellamy was also a self-proclaimed national socialist and a member of the "Nationalism" movement and a vice president of its socialist auxiliary group, whose members wanted the federal government to nationalize the American economy. Also take a look at his cousin author Edward Bellamy and his work, he wrote a number of socialist novels and was popular in his day.
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You mean the image that happened to be on Wikipedia? No thanks. You're still doing this from a simplistic and ridiculous set of standards.
 
They still said the pledge of allegiance when I was in grade school. I don't think it's a bad thing, as long as you leave the god part out of it. I liked the US when I was a kid and I think saying the pledge helped that. As an adult, I have a different attitude. In my state, they are trying to pass legislation to make it mandatory to say the pledge in schools again, so it's a hot topic where I am at.
 
Fiddytree said:
You mean the image that happened to be on Wikipedia? No thanks. You're still doing this from a simplistic and ridiculous set of standards.
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Aaaah no, just do a simple google on Frances Bellamy, as I said stated along with his cousin Edward. There's a lot of information out there and a simple google will give you a clue.
 
Pagan said:
Aaaah no, just do a simple google on Frances Bellamy, as I said stated along with his cousin Edward. There's a lot of information out there and a simple google will give you a clue.
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I did that ages ago, which was my criticism. The internet makes fools out of people. What I am saying is you're being simple-minded about it. It's great, you found a connection with fascism and a hand gesture, good job. That's the first thing people usually spout off. The problem is it largely predates the whole spooky side-effect by generations, and the State has employed it with a wholly different purpose. It does not erode its benevolent and utilitarian features of nationalism.
 
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Fiddytree said:
I did that ages ago, which was my criticism. The internet makes fools out of people. What I am saying is you're being simple-minded about it. It's great, you found a connection with fascism and a hand gesture, good job. That's the first thing people usually spout off. The problem is it largely predates the whole spooky side-effect by generations, and the State has employed it with a wholly different purpose. It does not erode its benevolent and utilitarian features of nationalism.
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So stating you should check the background of Bellamy and research him and his cousin as being radical socialists who's goals where to bring about a Socilast Utipia to the U.S. is being simplistic? aaaah OK if you say so
 
Pagan said:
So stating you should check the background of Bellamy and research him and his cousin as being radical socialists who's goals where to bring about a Socilast Utipia to the U.S. is being simplistic? aaaah OK if you say so
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Planned Parenthood was built specifically to engage in eugenics. Planned Parenthood is a good group now, practically harmless. I've moved beyond that little factoid. You should too.
 
Fiddytree said:
Planned Parenthood was built specifically to engage in eugenics. Planned Parenthood is a good group now, practically harmless. I've moved beyond that little factoid. You should too.
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Was a simple question, the subject of this poll. I just happen to agree that yes it's "indoctrination" and "brainwashing" along with knowing the foundation of the purpose and why the pledge was created in the first place. Knowing the foundation of something is the basis of understanding, you see I'm not one to take things at face value or "parrot" what I'm told. A good dose of skepticism is very healthy and I only wish more people would practice it.

Also here's a good piece about the Pledge from Cato -

What's Conservative about the Pledge of Allegiance? | Cato Institute

Nice snippet from the article
Very little, as it turns out. From its inception, in 1892, the Pledge has been a slavish ritual of devotion to the state, wholly inappropriate for a free people. It was written by Francis Bellamy, a Christian Socialist pushed out of his post as a Baptist minister for delivering pulpit-pounding sermons on such topics as “Jesus the Socialist.” Bellamy was devoted to the ideas of his more-famous cousin Edward Bellamy, author of the 1888 utopian novel Looking Backward. Looking Backward describes the future United States as a regimented worker’s paradise where everyone has equal incomes, and men are drafted into the country’s “industrial army” at the age of 21, serving in the jobs assigned them by the state. Bellamy’s novel was extremely popular, selling more copies than other any 19th century American novel except Uncle Tom’s Cabin. Bellamy’s book inspired a movement of “Nationalist Clubs,” whose members campaigned for a government takeover of the economy. A few years before he wrote the Pledge of Allegiance, Francis Bellamy became a founding member of Boston’s first Nationalist Club.
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Pagan said:
Was a simple question, the subject of this poll. I just happen to agree that yes it's "indoctrination" and "brainwashing" along with knowing the foundation of the purpose and why the pledge was created in the first place. Knowing the foundation of something is the basis of understanding, you see I'm not one to take things at face value or "parrot" what I'm told. A good dose of skepticism is very healthy and I only wish more people would practice it.

Also here's a good piece about the Pledge from Cato -

What's Conservative about the Pledge of Allegiance? | Cato Institute

Nice snippet from the article
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So here's what we have. An independent thinker, who truly just replaces the blind patriotism of the flock and replaces it with the posture of an innocence-lost perspective (even though they think they somehow have taken the Red pill). So, to further this analysis, we are provided with a libertarian critique of the Pledge on grounds that wish to reclaim what it considers the meaning of "conservative" (although, this enterprise is not without its own follies) by "shocking" so-called conservatives into believing that their universe is all wrong and quick...jump to the other side immediately. Those already knowing of Bellamy's socialist past, but perhaps unswayed by the shock gathered by those who recently discovered this "awful truth" are once again reminded how "ignorant" they are.

So, tell me, Pagan, how is this any different from what I already know, and why it is you think I am still needing to be educated. Perhaps you'll shock me next with the revelation that the women's suffragettes were xenophobic?
 
Spriggs05 said:
Just because it's written by a socialist or another reason?
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No other things, but Bellamy's intentions and purpose of the "indoctrination" chant is pretty obvious, especially when you read his background ;)
 
Fiddytree said:
So here's what we have. An independent thinker, who truly just replaces the blind patriotism of the flock and replaces it with the posture of an innocence-lost perspective (even though they think they somehow have taken the Red pill). So, to further this analysis, we are provided with a libertarian critique of the Pledge on grounds that wish to reclaim what it considers the meaning of "conservative" (although, this enterprise is not without its own follies) by "shocking" so-called conservatives into believing that their universe is all wrong and quick...jump to the other side immediately. Those already knowing of Bellamy's socialist past, but perhaps unswayed by the shock gathered by those who recently discovered this "awful truth" are once again reminded how "ignorant" they are.

So, tell me, Pagan, how is this any different from what I already know, and why it is you think I am still needing to be educated. Perhaps you'll shock me next with the revelation that the women's suffragettes were xenophobic?
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Like I said, you just don't get it. Like using a chant from a Radical National Socialist for a supposedly free society ya now. Be kinda like quoting Larry Flynt in a church baptismal ya know ;)

Let's just say let's agree to disagree and move on eh?
 
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