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Technology and education

Read the question. You agree?

  • Yes

    Votes: 6 18.8%
  • No

    Votes: 26 81.3%

  • Total voters
    32
My answer would be partly. For lecture style classes, absolutely. Several of my master's classes were offered both in person and online. You'd watch a live stream of the teacher in the lecture hall and could web chat questions to her. You could also view the recording of it later. It was great. I could break down 3 hour lectures into smaller chunks so I could pay better attention to everything. For classes that require a laboratory component, this won't be possible. There's no way you can dissect an animal, perform chemical reactions at home without a teacher right there, or in the case of my nursing school: examine another person and have your assessment verified.
 
My answer would be partly. For lecture style classes, absolutely. Several of my master's classes were offered both in person and online. You'd watch a live stream of the teacher in the lecture hall and could web chat questions to her. You could also view the recording of it later. It was great. I could break down 3 hour lectures into smaller chunks so I could pay better attention to everything. For classes that require a laboratory component, this won't be possible. There's no way you can dissect an animal, perform chemical reactions at home without a teacher right there, or in the case of my nursing school: examine another person and have your assessment verified.

Yeah, I think there are plenty of opportunities to implement this into a classroom. But to believe that it would take over the whole of the academic discourse I think is perhaps a flight of fancy and perhaps harbored more by the anti-academic.
 
I don't think they will ever completely replace classrooms mainly do the need for human interaction.
 
Not ever. Physics and engineering are extremely hands on, and can not be replaced by internet coursework.

For electrical engineering I would put the value of theory at about 30-40%, with hands on at about 60-70%. You simply can't learn to be an effective engineer through the internet unless you're a savant.
 
Not ever. Physics and engineering are extremely hands on, and can not be replaced by internet coursework.

For electrical engineering I would put the value of theory at about 30-40%, with hands on at about 60-70%. You simply can't learn to be an effective engineer through the internet unless you're a savant.


I have a degree in Civil Engineering, and I think it could be done online. Everything is done on a computer these days anyway.

It's not like back when my dad graduated, when they drafted everything by hand and used abacuses instead of calculators.

What are you gonna miss out on, building mousetrap cars?
 
Yeah, I think there are plenty of opportunities to implement this into a classroom. But to believe that it would take over the whole of the academic discourse I think is perhaps a flight of fancy and perhaps harbored more by the anti-academic.

Not all, but most will end up online.
 
I agree some classes can be taken on-line but not all of them can and until VR gets a whole let better than it is you can't replace the classroom and lab. The best that can be done well is replacing the lecture hall where the prof doesn't allow questions.

Watching a recorded lecture is equivalent to sitting in the lecture hall and taking notes. It's "fine and dandy" in exactly the same sense that attending your class is "fine and dandy."
I've attended 50+ sem hrs of courses in my time and only 12 hrs were lectures - with the other 3 hrs (doubled to 6) of those three courses being lab work. All the rest were small classrooms and lots of student/teacher interaction with one exception. I did attend a 3 sem.hr video class once. It was a nightmare. No way to ask questions of the lecturer and, believe me, in this particular class there were plenty of questions. The moderator - a local prof who "conducted" the class - couldn't answer the questions because in many cases he didn't agree with the lecturer's conclusions. Quite frankly, that course was a waste of time.

Agree, with the caveat that computer simulations are getting better by the day. I'm sure a lot more labwork could be completed online than you'd like to admit.
I do not believe any of my lab work could have been replaced by computer simulation. That's like learning to re-build a car engine without an engine to practice on. You hone your skills and learn critical things like sources of error first hand. No amount of demonstration can replace hands on experience - and I believe that was one of YOUR reasons for starting this discussion, experience while taking classes. If I don't work in chemistry I'll never get the experience of a chem lab, if I don't work in physics I'll never get the experience of a physics lab, and no amount of engineering work is going to change that. Yet both are important to engineers so we understand where the numbers we use are obtained.

Many of which are being scanned electronically and will soon be accessible online.
Hard to read a blueprint on a computer - I should know since I spent 25 years looking at the real thing and the "computer simulation".

Email, skype, telephone, and internet forums are great ways to ask questions.
And who's going to answer the thousands of questions your thousands of students are asking? The lecturer isn't going to have time for that - so you're still limited to a good teacher/student ratio at set times of the day. It's far from the panacea you make it out to be.
 
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Not all, but most will end up online.

Some, the hybrid subjects and the non-academic subjects can be moved to mostly online. Any true academic pursuit will still take place at University.
 
I have a degree in Civil Engineering, and I think it could be done online. Everything is done on a computer these days anyway.

It's not like back when my dad graduated, when they drafted everything by hand and used abacuses instead of calculators.

What are you gonna miss out on, building mousetrap cars?
Then you must be one of those cookbook engineers that never leaves the office.
 
I have a degree in Civil Engineering, and I think it could be done online. Everything is done on a computer these days anyway.

It's not like back when my dad graduated, when they drafted everything by hand and used abacuses instead of calculators.

What are you gonna miss out on, building mousetrap cars?

Believe it or not, most engineers aren't just armchair cogs who can't do anything unless the computer tells them what to do. I'm sure for the level of engineering you do an online education would be enough; but I'd have a hard time actually calling you an engineer.
 
Some, the hybrid subjects and the non-academic subjects can be moved to mostly online. Any true academic pursuit will still take place at University.

Since the definition of "academic" is anything taught at an academy, your assertion that all "academic subjects" will remain taught at the academy seems self-evident. Or perhaps this is a case in which our language has yet to catch up with our technology.

In any case, some lab work will still need to be done at a lab, clearly. I never disputed this. Similarly, trade schools will need to retain some brick and mortar facilities.
 
Believe it or not, most engineers aren't just armchair cogs who can't do anything unless the computer tells them what to do. I'm sure for the level of engineering you do an online education would be enough; but I'd have a hard time actually calling you an engineer.

I'm not an engineer anymore. I never said I was. Just because I received my degree in engineering, and got my start as an engineer, does not mean this is what I do for a living today.
 
Since the definition of "academic" is anything taught at an academy, your assertion that all "academic subjects" will remain taught at the academy seems self-evident. Or perhaps this is a case in which our language has yet to catch up with our technology.

In any case, some lab work will still need to be done at a lab, clearly. I never disputed this. Similarly, trade schools will need to retain some brick and mortar facilities.

Trade schools certainly, as well as Community College and smaller Colleges. University shall remain an institute with buildings, lectures, and labs as well; even while incorporating online classes for those who wish to be cogs. But the purpose of University isn't exactly to pop out cogs.
 
I'm not an engineer anymore. I never said I was. Just because I received my degree in engineering, and got my start as an engineer, does not mean this is what I do for a living today.

It's true, Engineers are highly educated researchers who know what they are doing. Not everyone is cut out to be an engineer. I tutored a lot of engineers, it was very easy to separate the good from the bad.
 
Trade schools certainly, as well as Community College and smaller Colleges. University shall remain an institute with buildings, lectures, and labs as well; even while incorporating online classes for those who wish to be cogs. But the purpose of University isn't exactly to pop out cogs.

You don't understand. I'm saying that trade schools will retain their brick and mortar, as will labs. For everything else, the overhead is just too expensive.

I pity you. You're like the factory worker who doesn't want to believe his job is getting shipped to China, that the company he works for would never move a factory overseas in the name of cost cutting.

Universities are no different from corporations - they follow the golden rule. As technology allows them to cut costs and increase revenues, they will hop aboard that train faster than you can say "cog" one more time.
 
It's true, Engineers are highly educated researchers who know what they are doing. Not everyone is cut out to be an engineer. I tutored a lot of engineers, it was very easy to separate the good from the bad.

Engineers are great. We don't have enough of them in this country.
 
You don't understand. I'm saying that trade schools will retain their brick and mortar, as will labs. For everything else, the overhead is just too expensive.

I pity you. You're like the factory worker who doesn't want to believe his job is getting shipped to China, that the company he works for would never move a factory overseas in the name of cost cutting.

Universities are no different from corporations - they follow the golden rule. As technology allows them to cut costs and increase revenues, they will hop aboard that train faster than you can say "cog" one more time.
I think there is one point missing, the Higher Education coordinating boards, that accredit universities
have requirements that only physical locals can satisfy, Library collections, Subject specific PHd's,
Lab Setups, Ect..
The point is the content may be delivered through many methods, but the degree will still
be conferred through a regular University.
One funny point, the requirements at the graduate level are more flexible than at the undergrad level.
That is one of the reasons that the first remote degrees were Masters.
 
Engineers are great. We don't have enough of them in this country.

That is a true statement. I like Engineers, very bright and motivated individuals. They do some fantastic research as well. But the tried and true Engineer could not complete their degree solely online.
 
You don't understand. I'm saying that trade schools will retain their brick and mortar, as will labs. For everything else, the overhead is just too expensive.

I pity you. You're like the factory worker who doesn't want to believe his job is getting shipped to China, that the company he works for would never move a factory overseas in the name of cost cutting.

Universities are no different from corporations - they follow the golden rule. As technology allows them to cut costs and increase revenues, they will hop aboard that train faster than you can say "cog" one more time.

No, YOU don't understand. You don't understand that Universities are indeed different than corporations and the point of the University in general.

You will not end the lecture hall in Academia, you'll just subsidize less academic subjects with online classes. The University will continue, and will continue with lectures. There are certain avenues of higher learning that must go through Academia proper. A PhD in physics cannot be earned online.
 
No, YOU don't understand. You don't understand that Universities are indeed different than corporations and the point of the University in general.

You will not end the lecture hall in Academia, you'll just subsidize less academic subjects with online classes. The University will continue, and will continue with lectures. There are certain avenues of higher learning that must go through Academia proper. A PhD in physics cannot be earned online.

Spoken like a true stick in the mud. The times they are a'changing. The internet is a genie you can't put back in the bottle.
 
That is a true statement. I like Engineers, very bright and motivated individuals. They do some fantastic research as well. But the tried and true Engineer could not complete their degree solely online.

Mostly online.
 
Mostly online.

Not the real Engineers, sorry. The amount of work, resources, and research necessary for the Engineering degree requires a physical presence. Maybe....maybe you could do the first year of Engineering classes online; after that though it's not feasible while maintaining the necessary level of education required to produce an engineer instead of a cog.
 
Spoken like a true stick in the mud. The times they are a'changing. The internet is a genie you can't put back in the bottle.

It's not a "stick in the mud", it's mere statement of fact. University isn't about pooping out cogs, we have Community College and College for that. University is more than that. And while there will certainly be plenty of online classes, there will be no way to end Academia, it's institutes, nor its lectures.
 
I like Engineers, very bright and motivated individuals.
It's true, Engineers are highly educated researchers who know what they are doing.
Engineers are great. We don't have enough of them in this country.

Yes, yes, and yes, gents. Thank you!

But in all seriousness, there's too much hands on experience required for proper engineering to learn off the internet. I happen to have my own electronics lab, but the average student can't afford that.
 
Yes, yes, and yes, gents. Thank you!

But in all seriousness, there's too much hands on experience required for proper engineering to learn off the internet. I happen to have my own electronics lab, but the average student can't afford that.

That's exactly the point. I have known a wide array of Engineers, Engineering being tied closely to Physics, the research and study is intense and requires hands on experience. Art falls into this as well. You can paint a picture at home, but how many have kilns, or the industrial machinery required for certain forms of sculpting? Philosophy flourishes from the academic environment as well and benefits from on campus interaction. The hardcore academic subjects require an academic presence; online alone cannot cut it. Online can go well with cookie-cutter or cog type education, but engineering isn't of that category. Engineers have to think.
 
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