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Technology and education

Read the question. You agree?

  • Yes

    Votes: 6 18.8%

  • No

    Votes: 26 81.3%
  • Total voters
    32
i doubt it, as there are classes which don't translate to internet-only. for example, it's difficult to do lab work over the internet, though if they figure out a good way to do that, i'll support it. doing my lab work at home would rock.
 
Peter Grimm said:
Simple question: Will the Internet render classrooms obsolete, at the college level?

Robots replace factory workers, mp3 files replaced cassette tapes, and soon traditional classroom-style learning will go the way of the dodo bird, according to me. I arrive at this conclusion from my perspective as a businessman.

Traditional classrooms will continue to exist for students of high school age or younger, I believe, because part of the role of public education is to babysit.

However, for adult students, the benefits of the Internet are numerous and growing. First, consider cost. As the Internet advances and more people gain access, the prospect of college-educating every willing adult becomes increasingly practical and therefore likely. Second, the Internet offers an unprecedented access to informational variety, meaning each person's education can be tailored to their individual interests and requirements.

Finally, it has been my perception that our best and brightest spend entirely too many of their useful hours in school, and not enough time in the real world applying what they have learned. As education evolves to rely more on technology, students can spend more time actually working, either internships or full time positions, and can participate in their studies during non-business hours.


What do you think?
Click to expand...

No, the internet will not render classrooms obsolete at the college level. It will allow for some integration of non-traditional students through online classes; but that would be limited in scope. You can't get a physics degree online, well not from an accredited university worth its salt. The personal interaction with the professor and classmates is vital, you need to be on campus most of the time anyway, you'll do research in the labs, the laboratory portion of your classes are excessively important.

There are some subjects that can likely be taught solely on the internet, but there is a class of academia which cannot. And as such, the University and the University classroom shall continue to exist.
 
HonestJoe said:
Who said anything about sex? You've obviously got a dirty mind. :2razz:

I think College/University has always been about more than pure education but about the wider development of a young person. The social interaction in and around the educational environment is as important as any lessons and lectures in creating rounded individuals rather than robots.

It might not be strictly necessary but I think some direct interaction with the people teaching you and the other people learning alongside you has a huge benefit in education. I don't think 100% remote learning can ever be as effective as something including some direct contact. I think this is recognised by the various remote learning institutions that already exist (at least the quality ones), who help arrange local study groups, events and co-ordination with conventional institutions for their students who would otherwise be learning alone.
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The college courses are about learning stuff (some of it useful).
If really want to learn about people, go wait tables for a few months
 
Ikari said:
No, the internet will not render classrooms obsolete at the college level. It will allow for some integration of non-traditional students through online classes; but that would be limited in scope. You can't get a physics degree online, well not from an accredited university worth its salt. The personal interaction with the professor and classmates is vital, you need to be on campus most of the time anyway, you'll do research in the labs, the laboratory portion of your classes are excessively important.

There are some subjects that can likely be taught solely on the internet, but there is a class of academia which cannot. And as such, the University and the University classroom shall continue to exist.
Click to expand...

You are a college professor, Ikari, so you have your own job at stake here. I can understand your position.

However, I'm convinced that time is against you. The old model is too expensive, for one. Do you have any idea how much a college education costs? Well, of course you do. That cost could be a fraction of what it is if we got rid of the "brick and mortar" infrastructure and overpaid professors.

The fact is, information is becoming less scarce of a commodity every day, to put it in economic terms.

Universities, like any organization, want to maximize their revenues while lowering their costs. As technology increases, old ways of doing things become obsolete as they are replaced by more cost-effective alternatives.

Just browsing the internet, I am already seeing degrees offered online that were not offered even 5 years ago. You can now get an engineering degree from USC, an MBA from Duke or UNC, all online. That trend will only continue.
 
Peter Grimm said:
You are a college professor, Ikari, so you have your own job at stake here. I can understand your position.
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No, this is just reality. There will be an increase in internet study; but some study cannot be done on the internet and will require lab time. The purest of academic pursuits will maintain University presence.

"Overpaid professors", I like that. Cause it's not true in many subjects. Many of you couldn't hack a professors schedule and duties.
 
Peter Grimm said:
Simple question: Will the Internet render classrooms obsolete, at the college level?

Robots replace factory workers, mp3 files replaced cassette tapes, and soon traditional classroom-style learning will go the way of the dodo bird, according to me. I arrive at this conclusion from my perspective as a businessman.

Traditional classrooms will continue to exist for students of high school age or younger, I believe, because part of the role of public education is to babysit.

However, for adult students, the benefits of the Internet are numerous and growing. First, consider cost. As the Internet advances and more people gain access, the prospect of college-educating every willing adult becomes increasingly practical and therefore likely. Second, the Internet offers an unprecedented access to informational variety, meaning each person's education can be tailored to their individual interests and requirements.

Finally, it has been my perception that our best and brightest spend entirely too many of their useful hours in school, and not enough time in the real world applying what they have learned. As education evolves to rely more on technology, students can spend more time actually working, either internships or full time positions, and can participate in their studies during non-business hours.


What do you think?
Click to expand...

Technology will not replace the classroom completely at the college level. There are certain skills that can only be learned hands on. Labratory skills and others of that vein are very much hands on as well as research. Most lectures and that sort of class where its mainly book work is in a lot of colleges already supplanting classrooms. I see part of what you see already coming to fruition.
 
Tigger said:
I'm just not quite ready to give up on the idea that there is a value to the ability to interact with a live human being in the same room; to gauge the reactions of your fellow students immediately in your own view; and to be involved in a personal discourse with someone you can see rather than someone on the other side of the world.
Click to expand...

But technology is beginning to address these things. Just look at Skype, that didn't exist only a few years ago, now you can essentially video conference for pennies. I'm sure 5 years from now we will be far ahead of where we are today.

Also, I'm a big believer in human interaction as well - but the purpose would be to get students in to the workforce earlier. For example, I see no reason for anyone to be a full-time MBA student a few years from now. The new model ought to be to get a job, and take the MBA online on the side.

That way the person could A.) pay for their MBA and not go in to debt and B.) actually apply what they are learning.
 
Peter Grimm said:
But technology is beginning to address these things. Just look at Skype, that didn't exist only a few years ago, now you can essentially video conference for pennies. I'm sure 5 years from now we will be far ahead of where we are today.

Also, I'm a big believer in human interaction as well - but the purpose would be to get students in to the workforce earlier. For example, I see no reason for anyone to be a full-time MBA student a few years from now. The new model ought to be to get a job, and take the MBA online on the side.

That way the person could A.) pay for their MBA and not go in to debt and B.) actually apply what they are learning.
Click to expand...

Many MBAs are done on line by folk who work. But an MBA isn't really the purest of academic pursuit (and rather simple to obtain). That doesn't mean that you could get a PhD in physics through online classes alone.

The point of University isn't to get one into the workforce ASAP, but rather to provide the most challenging of academic structures, to provide a well rounded education, and to encourage critical thinking.
 
There are courses that the internet cannot compete with the brick and mortar one. For instance courses with hands on practice exams such as dentists and other medical professionals, construction, etc.

BTW, why do you call it "brick and mortar?" Is it not a mortar a cannon that throws shells?
 
DDD said:
There are courses that the internet cannot compete with the brick and mortar one. For instance courses with hands on practice exams such as dentists and other medical professionals, construction, etc.

BTW, why do you call it "brick and mortar?" Is it not a mortar a cannon that throws shells?
Click to expand...

Mortar is also:

1.
a mixture of lime or cement or a combination of both with sand and water, used as a bonding agent between bricks, stones, etc.
2.
any of various materials or compounds for bonding together bricks, stones, etc.: Bitumen was used as a mortar.
 
MarineTpartier said:
Traditional colleges will never go away for a few reasons. A) There is way too much money invested in them already for them to go away. I do believe some smaller colleges will go away. However, the larger state and private colleges are "too big to fail". States have put far too much tax payer money into the schools. Boosters have donated far too much money to the schools. Neither will allow their investment to fade away. B) Do we really see teacher unions letting this happen? C) Never underestimate the power of college sports, especially football. If college sports go away, so would baseball, basketball, every Olympic sport, etc, etc. This will NEVER happen. Football alone is a multi-million if not billion dollar enterprise. D) Some degrees, especially in the medical field and engineering, need hands on work to be done. They need equipment that simply cannot be provided to each student individually. This all leads to a traditional college set up being necessary.
Click to expand...

I agree that the universities you know today will not "fail" or go away. Rather, they will adapt to the new technology and use it to their own benefit.

Many universities are already pouring resources in to online education. As the internet improves, that trend will only continue.

The more we use technology, the more students each university is able to take on. For example, take UNC. UNC has a top rated business school. Previously, they have had to be very selective about admissions because there can only be so many students per professor.

As the internet grows and improves, so does UNC's commitment to online education. This allows UNC to offer the same quality education to a vastly larger pool of students.

This is beneficial for the public - more people have access to a UNC education.

Academic snobbery has one foot already in the grave, and it's a dream come true. Soon, everyone will have the benefit of a top-notch education.

This is also beneficial to UNC and the state of North Carolina, because online degrees bring in additional revenues.
 
Education is not simply learning facts or obtaining specialized training on a single subject in a vacuum. The internet is simply a medium of information exchange, largely useless without the aid of a search engine, to guide one to any desried topic. The educational system takes that quite a bit further by establishing a lesson plan, including "related" support material and providing a context to tie seemingly unrealted ideas together. One can become trained be a fine carpenter, possessing all of the requisite skills for "wood welding" to build a fine house, and yet be totally useless unless they have a knowedge of local building codes, the ability to read the architectural plans for the desired dwelling, are able to communicate with the customer/material supplier and coordinate their building process with that of the other trades involved. Simply being an expert, or highly skilled/trained, in one narrow aspect of anything, is not what higher education is all about.
 
HonestJoe said:
Checking the notes of the guy next to you for the bit you didn't hear? Flirting with the girl at the end of the row? Going for a drink with your friends to talk about the weird way the lecturer talks and how pointless the course is?

Don't get me wrong, I'm all for making best use of modern technology to support education but I don't think it can ever or should be attempted to completely replace real world, face-to-face human interaction.
Click to expand...

Is that stuff worth 30 grand a year? Let's be real. If you're over 18, time to act like a grown-up.
 
Peter Grimm said:
But technology is beginning to address these things. Just look at Skype, that didn't exist only a few years ago, now you can essentially video conference for pennies. I'm sure 5 years from now we will be far ahead of where we are today.

Also, I'm a big believer in human interaction as well - but the purpose would be to get students in to the workforce earlier. For example, I see no reason for anyone to be a full-time MBA student a few years from now. The new model ought to be to get a job, and take the MBA online on the side.

That way the person could A.) pay for their MBA and not go in to debt and B.) actually apply what they are learning.
Click to expand...

For certain classes and degree programs there might be some usefullness, but it's not something that I would be comfortable doing myself. That's for sure.
 
mak2 said:
You can have a class in real time on the computer now, with students 1000's of miles apart. I think the classroom will become less and less a part of college education until bricks and motar fades away. I suppose some labs will be necessary, but the lecture hall is a dinosaur now.
Click to expand...
Wait, dinosaurs survived for 100 million years! ;)

But yeah, as tech like this plus [hopefully, eventually] our improving internet bandwidth is going to take a serious chunk out of in-person lecture attendance.

The lower levels will be later to convert, some maybe never. Not for the reason of “babysitting” but for the thing that in-person instruction still is better at, and what our school curriculum really includes. Socialization skills, particularly group skills. Also any impediment to communication becomes even more critical problem when communication skills haven’t yet matured, so the tech needs to be that much better for younger kids.

Still already remote education is a thing, even for elementary school children. It will just be some time before the economics of it make sense, because of the very short distances from home typically involved with elementary and even high school students. That is a big part of why university level is going to happen on a faster time scale. Faced with the potential of 100’s or even 1000’s of miles distant institutions/educators, the economics shift a lot faster towards distance learning.

P.S. I am somewhat looking forward to it, as one of my kids is very likely to be entering college before even being eligible for a driver’s license. The economic/logistical factors there are huge in favor of remote university classes.
 
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ttwtt78640 said:
Education is not simply learning facts or obtaining specialized training on a single subject in a vacuum. The internet is simply a medium of information exchange, largely useless without the aid of a search engine, to guide one to any desried topic. The educational system takes that quite a bit further by establishing a lesson plan, including "related" support material and providing a context to tie seemingly unrealted ideas together. One can become trained be a fine carpenter, possessing all of the requisite skills for "wood welding" to build a fine house, and yet be totally useless unless they have a knowedge of local building codes, the ability to read the architectural plans for the desired dwelling, are able to communicate with the customer/material supplier and coordinate their building process with that of the other trades involved. Simply being an expert, or highly skilled/trained, in one narrow aspect of anything, is not what higher education is all about.
Click to expand...

The purpose of education is debatable, but here is my take. If you're receiving an education on the public dime, then the purpose of your education is to turn you in to a productive citizen. Since we're not in the business of social engineering (I hope), that basically means the purpose of your education is to make you economically viable and productive.

If you're paying your own way, ie going to a private school and not getting taxpayer funding, then the purpose of your education is whatever you want it to be. It's like going to the movies.
 
Tigger said:
For certain classes and degree programs there might be some usefullness, but it's not something that I would be comfortable doing myself. That's for sure.
Click to expand...

Maybe not, but the younger generations are very comfortable in front of a computer. It's pretty amazing, actually.
 
Peter Grimm said:
Maybe not, but the younger generations are very comfortable in front of a computer. It's pretty amazing, actually.
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I'm 38 years old, Peter. I am more than comfortable in front of a computer. What I am not comfortable with is the idea of a program where I cannot meet face to face with people. I HATE conference calls and web meetings. They're a waste of my time and I avoid them as much as possible.
 
Peter Grimm said:
The purpose of education is debatable, but here is my take. If you're receiving an education on the public dime, then the purpose of your education is to turn you in to a productive citizen. Since we're not in the business of social engineering (I hope), that basically means the purpose of your education is to make you economically viable and productive.

If you're paying your own way, ie going to a private school and not getting taxpayer funding, then the purpose of your education is whatever you want it to be. It's like going to the movies.
Click to expand...

That applies to a single class, yes, but not to a degree/diploma. A college degree (or even a HS diploma) implies more than simple expertise in a single field. Without a solid, well rounded basic skill set, further trianing (acquiring more advanced skills) is very difficult. Idiot savants are very well educated (in at least one area) yet are not necessarily economically viable. The point of having an instructor and a broader course of study, is not simply for social engineering, but to become economically viable by not only acquiring a single skill to make money but those needed to function in more aspects of society as well.
 
Tigger said:
I'm 38 years old, Peter. I am more than comfortable in front of a computer. What I am not comfortable with is the idea of a program where I cannot meet face to face with people. I HATE conference calls and web meetings. They're a waste of my time and I avoid them as much as possible.
Click to expand...

OK, fair enough. Ask yourself this question, though. If you could get the same degree, with the same prestige and job opportunities afterward, but pay $100 grand less for it, wouldn't you take that?

The fact is, college is a huge expense for families, and for taxpayers. Most university education is heavily subsidized. So I ask - is the fact that some people out there prefer to take in-person classes really a good enough reason to stick to that model?

Think about it. We have at our fingertips the technology to educate not only the elites of society, but EVERY SINGLE AMERICAN. That is the power of the internet. Imagine what that could be like.
 
Peter Grimm said:
Simple question: Will the Internet render classrooms obsolete, at the college level?

Robots replace factory workers, mp3 files replaced cassette tapes, and soon traditional classroom-style learning will go the way of the dodo bird, according to me. I arrive at this conclusion from my perspective as a businessman.

Traditional classrooms will continue to exist for students of high school age or younger, I believe, because part of the role of public education is to babysit.

However, for adult students, the benefits of the Internet are numerous and growing. First, consider cost. As the Internet advances and more people gain access, the prospect of college-educating every willing adult becomes increasingly practical and therefore likely. Second, the Internet offers an unprecedented access to informational variety, meaning each person's education can be tailored to their individual interests and requirements.

Finally, it has been my perception that our best and brightest spend entirely too many of their useful hours in school, and not enough time in the real world applying what they have learned. As education evolves to rely more on technology, students can spend more time actually working, either internships or full time positions, and can participate in their studies during non-business hours.


What do you think?
Click to expand...

I think it's possible to learn outside of a classroom environment...but you lose one of the most important aspects of being jammed together with 30 or so like minded individuals...the connections you make.
 
ttwtt78640 said:
That applies to a single class, yes, but not to a degree/diploma. A college degree (or even a HS diploma) implies more than simple expertise in a single field. Without a solid, well rounded basic skill set, further trianing (acquiring more advanced skills) is very difficult. Idiot savants are very well educated (in at least one area) yet are not necessarily economically viable. The point of having an instructor and a broader course of study, is not simply for social engineering, but to become economically viable by not only acquiring a single skill to make money but those needed to function in more aspects of society as well.
Click to expand...

The great thing about the internet is the diversity of options that could be on the table. You could take courses in literally anything, thus giving you as "well rounded" an education as either you or the university deem fit.
 
Peter Grimm said:
OK, fair enough. Ask yourself this question, though. If you could get the same degree, with the same prestige and job opportunities afterward, but pay $100 grand less for it, wouldn't you take that?
Click to expand...

My degree cannot come with discounts like that. Anything with research will remain in academic settings.
 
Peter Grimm said:
The great thing about the internet is the diversity of options that could be on the table. You could take courses in literally anything, thus giving you as "well rounded" an education as either you or the university deem fit.
Click to expand...

But people won't, and that's one reason for University and its standards.
 
iliveonramen said:
I think it's possible to learn outside of a classroom environment...but you lose one of the most important aspects of being jammed together with 30 or so like minded individuals...the connections you make.
Click to expand...

Think about the cost. The fact is, college is a huge expense for families, and for taxpayers. Most university education is heavily subsidized. So I ask - is the fact that some people out there prefer to take in-person classes really a good enough reason to stick to that model?

Think about it. We have at our fingertips the technology to educate not only the elites of society, but EVERY SINGLE AMERICAN. That is the power of the internet. Imagine what that could be like.

The other point I'd make is that education should ideally be ongoing. I can envision a future where working professionals are constantly taking online courses to better themselves throughout their careers.
 
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