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How many here belong a union in the public or private sector? Why? or Why not?

How many here belong to a union?

  • Total voters
    67
  • Poll closed .
I've been in a union in the distant past, would never join one now, they are a scam. That's why union membership has been falling for decades. Can't wait until they're gone.
 
Cephus said:
I've been in a union in the distant past, would never join one now, they are a scam.
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You think unions like the one you were in in the PAST are scams or do you now as a non union worker think unions are a scam now? What do you base your opinion on?

That's why union membership has been falling for decades. Can't wait until they're gone.
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Union membership is dropping off because of right to work laws, because of a lack of work, because some conservatives think that we should not be spending money on infrastructure. The only road block that the far right faces are the unions and they are working hard to eliminate organized labor
 
EarlzP said:
You think unions like the one you were in in the PAST are scams or do you now as a non union worker think unions are a scam now? What do you base your opinion on?
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I thought they were scams then, I think they are scams now. I've both been in a union and been in management over a union and they absolutely are scams. There are plenty of stories of how, simply due to union contracts, unnecessary labor just stands around doing nothing because at one time, before automation, there was a need for those people but now, they not only don't have to move on to other jobs, they can't be let go.

Scam, scam, scam.

Union membership is dropping off because of right to work laws, because of a lack of work, because some conservatives think that we should not be spending money on infrastructure. The only road block that the far right faces are the unions and they are working hard to eliminate organized labor
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It's dropping off because it's largely unnecessary. Most of the things that unions were first created to do are now part of law. Workplaces are much safer, labor laws are codified, there's no real reason for unions except for the greedy. That's why office workers at the port of Los Angeles are going to be making almost $200k per year, because they could stop all the work at the ports until they got their way.
 
Cephus said:
I thought they were scams then, I think they are scams now. I've both been in a union and been in management over a union and they absolutely are scams.
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Typical management whine you fail to be able to motivate your work force and blame it on the worker

There are plenty of stories of how, simply due to union contracts, unnecessary labor just stands around doing nothing because at one time, before automation,there was a need for those people
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So before automation they where needed and it was not a scam is that what you are saying?

they not only don't have to move on to other jobs, they can't be let go.

Scam, scam, scam.
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So management negotiated a contract that allows workers to stand around and you place the blame on the worker?


It's dropping off because it's largely unnecessary. Most of the things that unions were first created to do are now part of law. Workplaces are much safer, labor laws are codified, there's no real reason for unions except for the greedy. That's why office workers at the port of Los Angeles are going to be making almost $200k per year, because they could stop all the work at the ports until they got their way.
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So again you are blaming the workers for a contract that management agreed to? If I paid someone 200k a year they would have to be earning it. Do you sit in on contract negotiations?
 
Goshin said:
Because these days employers don't seem to respect merit, mostly.... just the bottom line and nothing else.
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Contributing to the bottom line equals merit.
 
EarlzP said:
I did not know the Obama Administration was union. I was a member of a construction local the United Brotherhood of Carpenters and Millwrights and a member of the United Chemical Workers of America I was also a plant maintenance superintendent for 25 years.There are good and bad in both union and non union workers. It's up to those in charge to make sure that any employee earns their pay. Skilled craftsmen and women are worth every penny they make, they spend four years going through apprenticeship school to earn their book and learn their trade.

The republicans are working hard to destroy the unions because they are afraid of organized workers, the old divided we fall united we stand, the republicans want to be in control so they break up the unions. Unions built this country, provided a safer work place, better working conditions, and a fair rate of pay for the membership
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And now they are tearing the country apart making uncompetitive in a world market.
 
EarlzP said:
Typical management whine you fail to be able to motivate your work force and blame it on the worker

So before automation they where needed and it was not a scam is that what you are saying?

So management negotiated a contract that allows workers to stand around and you place the blame on the worker?

So again you are blaming the workers for a contract that management agreed to? If I paid someone 200k a year they would have to be earning it. Do you sit in on contract negotiations?
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Funny how you keep throwing out about agreements to contracts and all. Considering how those contracts are made. If the union doesn't get what they want then they strike. Which costs companies money. I would bet that 99.99% of the time most contracts made with unions are only done so as to avoid loss of money and not out of any negotiating skill on the part of the Unions. And then you turn around and say that the reason those companies fail is due to poor management decisions. Totally ignoring the fact that those companies are forced into a contract with unions.

Let me ask you a question...what happens to a company that refuses to sign a contract with a Union?
 
Rocketman said:
And now they are tearing the country apart making uncompetitive in a world market.
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You are right it's the unions tearing the country apart, it's the unions making it difficult for American companies to compete it's not the 75 cents per hour foreign worker wages that make it hard for American workers to compete.
 
Kal'Stang said:
Funny how you keep throwing out about agreements to contracts and all. Considering how those contracts are made. If the union doesn't get what they want then they strike. Which costs companies money. I would bet that 99.99% of the time most contracts made with unions are only done so as to avoid loss of money and not out of any negotiating skill on the part of the Unions. And then you turn around and say that the reason those companies fail is due to poor management decisions. Totally ignoring the fact that those companies are forced into a contract with unions.

Let me ask you a question...what happens to a company that refuses to sign a contract with a Union?
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Let me ask you a question... what happens to a company that agrees to sign a contract that renders it incapable of remaining competitive in the market place
 
Union labor is in decline and income gap is widening. Anyone think that is a coincidence?
 
EarlzP said:
So before automation they where needed and it was not a scam is that what you are saying?
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No, before automation, they needed more people. In any rational system, the people who were no longer needed would either be trained for another position or let go. Because of union contracts, which stipulate how many people must be employed for that position whether they are needed or not, now you have half of the crew being paid for doing nothing because the shop cannot operate without as many people stipulated in the contract and the union refuses to allow the contract to be revised.

So management negotiated a contract that allows workers to stand around and you place the blame on the worker?
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No, the union did. They are mostly concerned about having the most people employed as possible so they get all those dues.

So again you are blaming the workers for a contract that management agreed to? If I paid someone 200k a year they would have to be earning it. Do you sit in on contract negotiations?
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Nope, neither did you. However, the office worker union got their big brothers, the dockworkers, to refuse to cross the picket lines, thus shutting down the whole of the Los Angeles and Long Beach ports until management capitulated on every point the union wanted. They could lose millions of dollars in revenue a day or pay up the extortion money.
 
Catawba said:
Union labor is in decline and income gap is widening. Anyone think that is a coincidence?
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If most unions weren't corrupt and damaging to the company, more people would want to be in one. Nobody is stopping anybody from forming or being in a union. It just so turns out that to most people the alternative is better. Sounds like the union's fault.
 
Moot said:
I've never heard of a consultant union let alone one for coal and natural gas. Not saying there isn't one, but there still many holes in your story. Such as when you were a member of a union in the 80s, were you just entering the work force and lacked experience? After 30 years one would hope that you would gain experience and would make more money regardless of a union.

Unions just set a wage standard for certain skill levels, it doesn't prevent you from making more money or negotiating for a higher salary on your own. In fact, it's encouraged. As you gain more experience and gain more skills and your skills are in demand then it stands to reason that you are going to make more money whether you are union or not. The union dioesn't prevent you from making more money, but it does help prevent you from being exploited and making less money. So your argument against unions holding you back and making less money, just doesn't hold water.
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You're going off the basis of the theoretical function of a union. I agree with the theoretical function, I think it's a great idea for workers to voluntarily band together to negotiate better working conditions and wages. However, most people end up finding out that it's more of a pain to be in the union, and the minor benefits don't outweigh the costs.

If the unions want to remain a part of our society, sounds like they should get their **** together.
 
I work for the Government as a critical care paramedic and joined a Health Services Union 4 years ago. They have been reasonably successful in ensuring that the Government cutbacks on spending do not significantly impact the delivery of quality health services that i am employed to maintain.

Just to name one thing that we have utilised their services for.......Without them, acceptable response times would have risen a number of minutes for a category 1 patient which can mean the difference between life and death. Rather pointless to have the ability/equipment to offer significant life saving treatment at people's homes if we are not able to get there to do it.

That's just one of quite a few examples.
 
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RabidAlpaca said:
You're going off the basis of the theoretical function of a union. I agree with the theoretical function, I think it's a great idea for workers to voluntarily band together to negotiate better working conditions and wages. However, most people end up finding out that it's more of a pain to be in the union, and the minor benefits don't outweigh the costs.

If the unions want to remain a part of our society, sounds like they should get their **** together.
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Thats funny because our country is a union, it's a union of states that negotiated and signed a contract with the federal government "to form a more perfect union." Any territory that wanted to become a state had to join the union and adhere to the contract aka the Constitution that the original states negotiated with the federal government for. A labor or skill union operates on the same principles that this country was founded on.

Ergo, no one is forcing anyone to live and work in the United States, but if they want to then they have to pay taxes......just as no one is forcing anyone to work at a union company job, but if they want to then they have to pay dues.

From what I've observed, most people who gripe about unions have either never been in one and/or don't really understand how unions work or even how they benefit people, including the people doing the griping.

History has shown that unions and business work best when there is a balance of power between the two. When either side gains more power over the other then it hurts the ones who have less power. Right now business seems to be gaining more power over the unions and it doesn't look good for anyone who needs to work to earn a living whether they are union or not.
 
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Moot said:
Thats funny because our country is a union, it's a union of states that negotiated and signed a contract with the federal government "to form a more perfect union." Any territory that wanted to become a state had to join the union and adhere to the contract aka the Constitution that the original states negotiated with the federal government for. A labor or skill union operates on the same principles that this country was founded on.

Ergo, no one is forcing anyone to live and work in the United States, but if they want to then they have to pay taxes......just as no one is forcing anyone to work at a union company job, but if they want to then they have to pay dues.

From what I've observed, most people who gripe about unions have either never been in one and/or don't really understand how unions work or even how they benefit people, including the people doing the griping.

History has shown that unions and business work best when there is a balance of power between the two. When either side gains more power over the other then it hurts the ones who have less power. Right now business seems to be gaining more power over the unions and it doesn't look good for anyone who needs to work to earn a living whether they are union or not.
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Germany is heavily unionized. Their unemployment is ultra low, and their wages are high. As I stated, unions are a good idea. However, American unions have been off the mark for quite some time. They need to get their **** together if they want to continue to exist.
 
RabidAlpaca said:
Germany is heavily unionized. Their unemployment is ultra low, and their wages are high. As I stated, unions are a good idea. However, American unions have been off the mark for quite some time. They need to get their **** together if they want to continue to exist.
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There are a lot more unions in the US than there are in Germany and they're not all the same. In the US some are government unions and some are private sector unions. Some represent labor such as janitors and some represent skilled professionals such as engineers. Germany is a smaller country and it is easier for them to organize, but without checking it would be hard for me to say much about their unions one way or the other.


As it is with business and private sector unions working best when there is an equilibrium of power ....so it is with the federal/state government and their employee unions. And while I believe in unions I am torn whether or not government employee unions are good for government and the public. Because as I mentioned before it's not good for either side of the equasion to have the upper hand over the other, but with government unions it's a little different because if they get the upper the hand then it cripples the government and the public that depends on it. And if government gets the upper hand then they are exploiting their employees. So I'm still torn and mulling it over about government unions.

But what I find appalling is business using the government to gain power over private sector unions. It's fine when government acts as arbitrator between the two sides, but to act as the sole instigator for one side to break the back of the other is wrong, imo. And whats worse, is that Chrysler had just negotiated a fair contract with the UAW and said they didn't ask the GOP Michigan legislature to do anything. But the Michigan GOP just decide to take it upon themselves to break the back of the union. That was just wrong, wrong, wrong.
 
Moot said:
But what I find appalling is business using the government to gain power over private sector unions. It's fine when government acts as arbitrator between the two sides, but to act as the sole instigator for one side to break the back of the other is wrong, imo. And whats worse, is that Chrysler had just negotiated a fair contract with the UAW and said they didn't ask the GOP Michigan legislature to do anything. But the Michigan GOP just decide to take it upon themselves to break the back of the union. That was just wrong, wrong, wrong.
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But they didn't break the backs of unions. They just made it to where the individual could choose to join a union voluntarily or not join. If that breaks the union back because people don't want to be a part of the union then there is something wrong with the union itself. If they addressed that then maybe people would voluntarily sign up to be a part of the union, thereby making them strong again.

People will voluntarily join something that benefits them. If they think that its not going to benefit them then they won't join. Its as simple as that.
 
EarlzP said:
You are right it's the unions tearing the country apart, it's the unions making it difficult for American companies to compete it's not the 75 cents per hour foreign worker wages that make it hard for American workers to compete.
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Nope. as a matter of fact scrap and transportation eats up that savings. Unions are for the weak minded.
 
Rocketman said:
Nope. as a matter of fact scrap and transportation eats up that savings. Unions are for the weak minded.
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Why do you find it necessary in this format to be insulting? Tell me what it does for you?
 
RabidAlpaca said:
If most unions weren't corrupt and damaging to the company, more people would want to be in one. Nobody is stopping anybody from forming or being in a union. It just so turns out that to most people the alternative is better. Sounds like the union's fault.
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How is being one of the poorest states in the best interest of the working class?

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Catawba said:
How is being one of the poorest states in the best interest of the working class?

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Not low on the reason for these states being Right-To-Work is their desire to attract more industry so they won't continue to be among the eight poorest states. Right-To-Work laws didn't make them poor. Lack of industry and infrastructure made them poor.
 
RabidAlpaca said:
So by some kind of magic, when right to work was recently passed, the economies of those states suddenly tanked?
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They have been right to work states for years, just as they have been poor for years.
 
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