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How many here belong a union in the public or private sector? Why? or Why not?

How many here belong to a union?

  • Total voters
    67
  • Poll closed .
Catawba said:
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Given that only 7% of American jobs are union jobs, I'm afraid that doesn't carry any water.
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Given that only 7% of American jobs are union jobs, I'm afraid that your assertion that the only thing standing between us and complete monopoly-man domination doesn't carry any water.

The fact is, the unions want the government to protect their ability to call "dibs" on entire sectors of labor. They're lazy. They don't want to do the hard work required to actually win the support of the people. If Joe Worker's life will be improved by joining the union, he will join the union. Humans are selfish, and they will do what improves their life. Right now, most people's lives won't be improved by joining the union, and as such, they choose not to. For the union to jump in and make them join anyway is insane.
 
RabidAlpaca said:
Given that only 7% of American jobs are union jobs, I'm afraid that your assertion that the only thing standing between us and complete monopoly-man domination doesn't carry any water.

The fact is, the unions want the government to protect their ability to call "dibs" on entire sectors of labor. They're lazy. They don't want to do the hard work required to actually win the support of the people. If Joe Worker's life will be improved by joining the union, he will join the union. Humans are selfish, and they will do what improves their life. Right now, most people's lives won't be improved by joining the union, and as such, they choose not to. For the union to jump in and make them join anyway is insane.
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Bull

In the US starting a union at a company that does not have one is nearly impossible due to company actions that include firing people, threats of job loss and actually shutting down units that did organize and form a union. If I recall correctly the only Walmart stores that had unions certified ( I believe in Quebec) closed within a few months, other times when meat cutters formed a union the meat cutting position was eliminated

I am sure that if Walmart had a union, and people could join it without fear of being fired a significant number of walmart employees would
 
RabidAlpaca said:
Sounds like the unions should do a better job of negotiating. Unions are there to provide a counter balance. I'm for unions, but no one has give me a good reason why people need to be forced into paying unions that don't want to be in them.
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Manc Skipper said:
What kind of person would want to ride on the backs of their union colleagues without contributing to their struggle?
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....................
 
Lord Tammerlain said:
Bull

In the US starting a union at a company that does not have one is nearly impossible due to company actions that include firing people, threats of job loss and actually shutting down units that did organize and form a union. If I recall correctly the only Walmart stores that had unions certified ( I believe in Quebec) closed within a few months, other times when meat cutters formed a union the meat cutting position was eliminated

I am sure that if Walmart had a union, and people could join it without fear of being fired a significant number of walmart employees would
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Sounds like our government should do a better job of protecting the rights of employees to form unions. In no way does that require compulsory union membership.
 
RabidAlpaca said:
Sounds like our government should do a better job of protecting the rights of employees to form unions. In no way does that require compulsory union membership.
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It is not compulsory to join a union in the US, it is a choice that is made by people who choose to work at a company that requires joining a union as a condition of working there.7

Dont want to be part of a union, dont work at a company that requires it, work at Walmart instead
 
Lord Tammerlain said:
It is not compulsory to join a union in the US, it is a choice that is made by people who choose to work at a company that requires joining a union as a condition of working there.7

Dont want to be part of a union, dont work at a company that requires it, work at Walmart instead
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If you're in a career that is heavily unionized in a non-right-to-work state, it is almost impossible to get a job without joining a union. You peddle your BS about "well they should just go somewhere else", but most people can't afford to uproot their entire lives and move somewhere else, they'll end up just paying the dues and dealing with the union's BS.
 
RabidAlpaca said:
If you're in a career that is heavily unionized in a non-right-to-work state, it is almost impossible to get a job without joining a union. You peddle your BS about "well they should just go somewhere else", but most people can't afford to uproot their entire lives and move somewhere else, they'll end up just paying the dues and dealing with the union's BS.
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With the possible exception of construction trades and working for large contractors there are no careers in the US like that anymore

If you are in the construction trades you can start your own small business instead
 
Lord Tammerlain said:
With the possible exception of construction trades and working for large contractors there are no careers in the US like that anymore

If you are in the construction trades you can start your own small business instead
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How many poor people can afford to start their own business? Luckily it's become less and less necessary to join a union just to get a job. I see that as progress, you seem to see it as defeat. Unions are a great idea, but forcing them as a condition of employment is despicable.
 
RabidAlpaca said:
How many poor people can afford to start their own business? Luckily it's become less and less necessary to join a union just to get a job. I see that as progress, you seem to see it as defeat. Unions are a great idea, but forcing them as a condition of employment is despicable.
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Depends on the industry. Try getting a job in Hollywood without belonging to a union. Or an automaker. There are many industries which are so completely owned by the unions that you cannot get a job without handing the union money.
 
Cephus said:
Depends on the industry. Try getting a job in Hollywood without belonging to a union. Or an automaker. There are many industries which are so completely owned by the unions that you cannot get a job without handing the union money.
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Precisely my point. Unions can be a good thing, but they need it needs to be a completely voluntary. Imposing the union will on someone who wants nothing to do with it is fascism at its best.
 
RabidAlpaca said:
Precisely my point. Unions can be a good thing, but they need it needs to be a completely voluntary. Imposing the union will on someone who wants nothing to do with it is fascism at its best.
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Example


I did not want to join a union so instead of working at Ford, I got a job at Honda

Such fascism
 
RabidAlpaca said:
Precisely my point. Unions can be a good thing, but they need it needs to be a completely voluntary. Imposing the union will on someone who wants nothing to do with it is fascism at its best.
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My wife used to work for a company that was adamantly anti-union, the owner said he'd never run a union shop and every time there was a vote, the employees unanimously turned down unionization. He took really good care of everyone without having a union around. That pissed off the union, who would routinely send thugs around to vandalize the site, they'd slash tires on work trucks, they broke into the office once and stole all the computers. Luckily, he had cameras and caught all of the people involved and when the cops showed up, the union hung them all out to dry claiming they had no knowledge of their actions.

Unions suck.
 
Lord Tammerlain said:
Example


I did not want to join a union so instead of working at Ford, I got a job at Honda

Such fascism
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Your situation does not represent every American. Not everyone has that opportunity. So once again, if unions are so awesome, why does membership have to be mandatory?
 
Cephus said:
My wife used to work for a company that was adamantly anti-union, the owner said he'd never run a union shop and every time there was a vote, the employees unanimously turned down unionization. He took really good care of everyone without having a union around. That pissed off the union, who would routinely send thugs around to vandalize the site, they'd slash tires on work trucks, they broke into the office once and stole all the computers. Luckily, he had cameras and caught all of the people involved and when the cops showed up, the union hung them all out to dry claiming they had no knowledge of their actions.

Unions suck.
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It's so sad, the concept of a union is such an amazing one. Free people voluntarily banding together to bargain for better wages and working conditions. However what we have here is a corrupt gang of thugs that wants to petition the government to force people who dont want to be union to pay them money. It's so sad seeing how effective and voluntary the unions are here in europe, vs the bull**** that we tolerate at home.
 
RabidAlpaca said:
Your situation does not represent every American. Not everyone has that opportunity. So once again, if unions are so awesome, why does membership have to be mandatory?
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It is not

People at Walmart are not part of a Union, nor are over 85% or so of the private industry jobs in the US.

That is far from being mandatory
 
RabidAlpaca said:
Then why do you demand that union membership for some careers must be mandatory?
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Careers no

Positions at companies that have made such contracts with unions

I just point out that no careers force a person to be part of a union. People have the choice of working at a company that has a union and is a closed shop or not work for that company. They can work for or at any number of other companies/jobs that do not require it
 
RabidAlpaca said:
It's so sad, the concept of a union is such an amazing one. Free people voluntarily banding together to bargain for better wages and working conditions. However what we have here is a corrupt gang of thugs that wants to petition the government to force people who dont want to be union to pay them money. It's so sad seeing how effective and voluntary the unions are here in europe, vs the bull**** that we tolerate at home.
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It's not about bargaining, it's about demanding. The unions have an absurd amount of power, they demand what they want and if they don't get it, they shut your business down until you cough it up because you legally can't go hire new non-union workers. It's like trying to deal with a guy who has a gun in your mouth, but you're not allowed to take it out.
 
Cephus said:
It's not about bargaining, it's about demanding. The unions have an absurd amount of power, they demand what they want and if they don't get it, they shut your business down until you cough it up because you legally can't go hire new non-union workers. It's like trying to deal with a guy who has a gun in your mouth, but you're not allowed to take it out.
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You can hire replacement workers during a strike or lock out, they business can and many due operate during strikes
 
Lord Tammerlain said:
You can hire replacement workers during a strike or lock out, they business can and many due operate during strikes
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You cannot simply terminate the striking workers and bring in entirely new workers.
 
Lord Tammerlain said:
The business is not shut down like you stated either
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It certainly can be, especially if new workers refuse to cross the picket line. Unions are also known to terrorize non-union scab workers. Businesses ought to be able to say, "our contract with your union is over, we're not renewing it, either come to work as a non-union worker or go find another job".
 
Lord Tammerlain said:
Example


I did not want to join a union so instead of working at Ford, I got a job at Honda

Such fascism
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Sorry dude, but your advocating for legal rent seeking.
Mandating union membership, as a condition of employment is BS.

Often it's the union, who imposes this on the employer, as part of the contract.
You're just dancing around the issue.

Union membership should not, be associated with X company, but should be a general membership outside the business proper.
That would make it correctly voluntary, rather than compulsory.
 
Lord Tammerlain said:
EconPapers: SOME EMPIRICAL EFFECTS OF USING PERMANENT STRIKER REPLACEMENTS

By the looks of this paper permanent replacement workers are allowed and used
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Did you read the abstract?

"This study uses survey data to examine issues related to legislation that would bar employers from permanently replacing striking workers. Hiring permanent replacements does not significantly affect the proportion of full capacity at which the employer operates struck facilities but significantly decreases the proportion of bargaining unit members who get back their jobs after a strike. More controversially, firms hiring permanent replacements obtain less favorable collective bargaining contracts than do firms that do not hire permanent replacements"
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The point is, there will be no bargaining and no contracts if you terminate the striking workers permanently and just hire new ones.
 
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