What is the primary reason behind your support for same-sex marriage? [W:539/549]

Rising Sun said:

Correct on both counts. Marriage, and all the benefits provided by the Federal government, isn't a right. You are free to hate anyone you like.

However, what the State and the Feds can't do is violate the Constitution. In this case, the 14th Amendment equal protection clause. There are 1,138 benefits granted to straight married couples. For the Feds or the State to grant special status for whites, blacks, straights, gays or any other subgroup and deny other Americans the same status is a violation of the Constitution's 14th Amendment. The choice is clear; either grant those benefits to everyone or no one. Which do you prefer?

Click to expand...

agreed, but "everyone" must include "EVERYONE". you don't get to pick and choose which subgroups "deserve" rights and which don't

OscarB63 said:

agreed, but "everyone" must include "EVERYONE". you don't get to pick and choose which subgroups "deserve" rights and which don't

Click to expand...

Agreed. If laws are created to let two consenting adults marry and derive tax and legal benefits, then those laws must apply to all consenting adults.

Fisher said:

So Affirmative Action violates the 14th Amendment in your reasoning? You may want to rethink the whole "equal protection" argument IMHO (perhaps because it may be a 9th Amendment issue or even a substantive due process issues but I do not recall a case where equal protection was used in the way you seem to think it is)

Click to expand...

I think so. That is only one reason why I disagree with AA.

Gawain said:

Pedophiles come in many colors, some like boys some like girls and some like both.

Click to expand...

Thats what I just said.

Rising Sun said:

Correct on both counts. Marriage, and all the benefits provided by the Federal government, isn't a right. You are free to hate anyone you like.

However, what the State and the Feds can't do is violate the Constitution. In this case, the 14th Amendment equal protection clause. There are 1,138 benefits granted to straight married couples. For the Feds or the State to grant special status for whites, blacks, straights, gays or any other subgroup and deny other Americans the same status is a violation of the Constitution's 14th Amendment. The choice is clear; either grant those benefits to everyone or no one. Which do you prefer?

Click to expand...

Marriage is a right as defined by the courts of this country. See: Loving v Virginia.

OscarB63 said:

agreed, but "everyone" must include "EVERYONE". you don't get to pick and choose which subgroups "deserve" rights and which don't

Click to expand...

Our court system and our society both disagree with you. In point of fact we do deny rights to people, and legally and ethically. You don't get to tell us we cannot do that. As long as the system is consistent and logical, it is in fact entirely appropriate to do so.

FreedomFromAll said:

I think what you were trying to say is that pedophiles are pedophiles not homosexuals. That being said though if you look online there is a good deal of porn that caters to men who like boys. And one could dig up plenty of pedophile men that assaulted boys. Which the anti-gay league has been exploiting the reality of these type of pedophiles for years as why they oppose homosexuality. But they leave out the fact that an equal amount of pedophiles assault girls as well. It is a very dishonest tactic because pedophiles are not after sex they are attacking their victims for other reasons. Many cases of pedophile attacks on children did not even involve any sexual abuse at all.

Click to expand...

Pedophiles are people who are sexually attracted to children. Most pedophiles(by a large margin) are primarily attracted to the opposite sex when it comes to adult relations. In other words, their "orientation" is heterosexual, not homosexual.

Gawain said:

Only because its against the law. NAMBLA is all for it

Baloney. Sodomy laws are no longer needed as our gene pools are now so diluted theres very little chance of abnormalities.

In the old days yes.

Click to expand...

NAMBLA has nothing to do with gays. It has to do with pedophiles.

Redress said:

Marriage is a right as defined by the courts of this country. See: Loving v Virginia.

Click to expand...

Something, I'm sure, which will be brought up again at SCOTUS.

Chief Justice Earl Warren's opinion for the unanimous court held that:

Marriage is one of the "basic civil rights of man," fundamental to our very existence and survival.... To deny this fundamental freedom on so unsupportable a basis as the racial classifications embodied in these statutes, classifications so directly subversive of the principle of equality at the heart of the Fourteenth Amendment, is surely to deprive all the State's citizens of liberty without due process of law. The Fourteenth Amendment requires that the freedom of choice to marry not be restricted by invidious racial discrimination. Under our Constitution, the freedom to marry, or not marry, a person of another race resides with the individual and cannot be infringed by the State.

Click to expand...

Redress said:

Pedophiles are people who are sexually attracted to children. Most pedophiles(by a large margin) are primarily attracted to the opposite sex when it comes to adult relations. In other words, their "orientation" is heterosexual, not homosexual.

Click to expand...

It would be logical that there are more cases of pedophile attacks from heterosexuals considering that there are more heterosexuals than homosexuals.

The proportions of heterosexual and homos... [J Sex Marital Ther. 1992] - PubMed - NCBI

Abstract
Previous investigations have indicated that the ratio of sex offenders against female children vs. offenders against male children is approximately 2:1, while the ratio of gynephiles to androphiles among the general population is approximately 20:1. The present study investigated whether the etiology of preferred partner sex among pedophiles is related to the etiology of preferred partner sex among males preferring adult partners. Using phallometric test sensitivities to calculate the proportion of true pedophiles among various groups of sex offenders against children, and taking into consideration previously reported mean numbers of victims per offender group, the ratio of heterosexual to homosexual pedophiles was calculated to be approximately 11:1. This suggests that the resulting proportion of true pedophiles among persons with a homosexual erotic development is greater than that in persons who develop heterosexually. This, of course, would not indicate that androphilic males have a greater propensity to offend against children.

FreedomFromAll said:

It would be logical that there are more cases of pedophile attacks from heterosexuals considering that there are more heterosexuals than homosexuals.

The proportions of heterosexual and homos... [J Sex Marital Ther. 1992] - PubMed - NCBI

Abstract
Previous investigations have indicated that the ratio of sex offenders against female children vs. offenders against male children is approximately 2:1, while the ratio of gynephiles to androphiles among the general population is approximately 20:1. The present study investigated whether the etiology of preferred partner sex among pedophiles is related to the etiology of preferred partner sex among males preferring adult partners. Using phallometric test sensitivities to calculate the proportion of true pedophiles among various groups of sex offenders against children, and taking into consideration previously reported mean numbers of victims per offender group, the ratio of heterosexual to homosexual pedophiles was calculated to be approximately 11:1. This suggests that the resulting proportion of true pedophiles among persons with a homosexual erotic development is greater than that in persons who develop heterosexually. This, of course, would not indicate that androphilic males have a greater propensity to offend against children.

Click to expand...

Choice of victims is not indicitive of homo/heterosexuality. Pedophiles are primarily attracted to children, an age range, not a gender.

Less than 9% oppose SSM according to this thread's poll.

That's pretty awesome. I think it's time to let this insanely circular thread die. (another new one will appear shortly...)

In less than 10 years ssm won't be a topic because as a country we're growing in our acceptance of it.

The wildly ignorant will never change their minds, but thankfully their numbers are dwindling.

Dragonfly said:

Less than 9% oppose SSM according to this thread's poll.

That's pretty awesome. I think it's time to let this insanely circular thread die. (another new one will appear shortly...)

In less than 10 years ssm won't be a topic because as a country we're growing in our acceptance of it.

The wildly ignorant will never change their minds, but thankfully their numbers are dwindling.

Click to expand...

There will always be the ignorant there is no way around that. I mean how long has slavery been outlawed?

FreedomFromAll said:

There will always be the ignorant there is no way around that. I mean how long has slavery been outlawed?

Click to expand...

Aye....but you've got about as much chance of getting an intelligent response out of the dust under your couch than you do from a gay-hater.

Redress said:

Choice of victims is not indicitive of homo/heterosexuality. Pedophiles are primarily attracted to children, an age range, not a gender.

Click to expand...

I agree and did not say otherwise. I just found this study interesting. If you read more than the abstract it points out cultural influences among some subsections of homosexuals as the cause not being homosexual. If you look online at homosexual porn, you will find a disproportional amount of porn aimed at sex between older and younger homosexuals. Not all homosexuals view porn so it is the subsection that views that porn that has created those numbers. Much like it isnt typical for white males to be sexual predators but statistically white male dominate that field. And the same could be said about mass shootings. Just because someone is a homosexual or whatever does not mean that they have the tendency to commit certain crimes. Take minorities for example, one could show that more minorities commit violent crimes than non-minorities but you have to take into account that more minorities live in substandard conditions. It wasnt the race as the factor but the circumstances and to a certain extent the cultural influences.


So yes I agree completely with what you just said but the subject isnt as simple as that and the study that I linked shows that and makes it clear that you are correct. I just like to make these things known to curb the nay sayers that like to twist known facts to pad their argument. With this out in the open they cannot comeback now and say that pedophilia is a result of any certain sexuality. Because the reality is that these monsters come form all walks of life. And the numbers show exactly that. I know that I have ran into homosexuals that try to assert that heterosexuals are more prone to pedophilia which isnt true either. We need to all be honest here.

What is the primary reason behind your support for same-sex marriage?

It is one of the symbolic issues that have replaced serious politics and stands for 'my side'. I have nothing against it, either, if that's what some couples want.

Because in order to keep people from doing something, I have to care. I don't care what gay folks do. Wanna get married? Have it at, people. Wanna get Wendy's drive-thru as opposed to walking in? Okay, don't care. Wanna order the chicken and shrimp hibachi instead of the steak and shrimp? Cool, whatever bro. It's all the same to me.

I would've chosen "I don't care", but that's not really it. I care that they should be able to do whatever they want, because I don't care about what they're doing. So, for me, equal rights. They should be able to get married just like I should be able to take a nap on my couch or on my recliner. One is their choice. One is my choice. Everyone else can mind their own business.

roguenuke said:

Which has nothing to do with their sexuality, what gender of adult a pedophile would be in an adult relationship with. Which is why it is stupid to try to link homosexuality and pedophilia because one has nothing to do with the other.

Click to expand...

They're both abnormal sexual attractions. Maybe Jerry Sandusky was "born that way". I think the biggest difference is that you have disgust with one but not the other, much like SSM supporters always spew.

OscarB63 said:

fundamentally, I believe people are against incest marriage because they think it's icky. which is not a valid reason to deny rights. as far as Hugh Hefner marrying a 30 y/o being way more icky than two lesbian...I guess that is a matter of personal preference.

Click to expand...

Too bad we actually have real life examples of generational incest leading to significant genetic defects in human populations.

Try again with less fail Oscar. Next time when you attempt to use someone's words against them, try to actually have an argument.

And as for animal populations, isolated cheetah and lion inbreeding has lead to population collapse in parts of Africa in as few as three generations as a single disease can wipe out the majority of individuals in one fell swoop. What you described earlier fails to account for genetic introduction of unrelated genes.

Gawain said:

Only because its against the law. NAMBLA is all for it

Baloney. Sodomy laws are no longer needed as our gene pools are now so diluted theres very little chance of abnormalities.

In the old days yes.

Click to expand...

Sodomy laws were never related to genetic diversity. What the hell are you talking about? Sodomy laws were direct legislation of the Bible, which is HIGHLY unconstitutional.

obvious Child said:

Too bad we actually have real life examples of generational incest leading to significant genetic defects in human populations.

Click to expand...

and? if they are willing to take that chance, what business is it of yours?

how is allowing two siblings to marry and possibly producing a "tarded baby" any more harmful to society than allowing an unwed mother to keep having kids that she can't support? yet i don't see any of you guys protesting to prevent her from doing so (because...GASP...that might violate her reproductive rights)

it's the hypocrisy and double standards that bother me...not the issue of SSM. i couldn't care less if gays want to marry, since I'm not gay it's none of my business.

OscarB63 said:

and? if they are willing to take that chance, what business is it of yours?

Click to expand...

For the same reason that we curtail rampant drug use. It's not obvious why?

how is allowing two siblings to marry and possibly producing a "tarded baby" any more harmful to society than allowing an unwed mother to keep having kids that she can't support? yet i don't see any of you guys protesting to prevent her from doing so (because...GASP...that might violate her reproductive rights)

Click to expand...

Huh? Do you always rely on fabrications of your own design that no one ever argued but yourself? No one is stopping an unwed mother from keeping her kids that she can't support. No one ever argued that she shouldn't be allowed. What the FRACK are you talking about?

If you want to discuss that, do it with the person who made that argument: yourself

it's the hypocrisy and double standards that bother me...not the issue of SSM. i couldn't care less if gays want to marry, since I'm not gay it's none of my business.

Click to expand...

It's the rampant hyperbole and poorly executed fabrications of those against SSM in tying it to completely unrelated issues.

OscarB63 said:

i couldn't care less if gays want to marry, since I'm not gay it's none of my business.

Click to expand...

Awesome. Thanks for stating that. (not sure if you did in some other post as there's about a million here already....)

Mathematician said:

They're both abnormal sexual attractions.

Click to expand...

Depends on how you are defining normal/abnormal.

Mathematician said:

Maybe Jerry Sandusky was "born that way".

Click to expand...

Its possible.

Mathematician said:

I think the biggest difference is that you have disgust with one but not the other, much like SSM supporters always spew.

Click to expand...

One is done between consenting adults where no harm occurs and one is done between one adult and a child where the child is harmed. That is the big difference.

Mathematician said:

They're both abnormal sexual attractions. Maybe Jerry Sandusky was "born that way". I think the biggest difference is that you have disgust with one but not the other, much like SSM supporters always spew.

Click to expand...

Abnormal does not mean bad. Genius level IQ is abnormal.