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What is the primary reason behind your support for same-sex marriage? [W:539/549]

What is the primary reason behind your support for same-sex marriage?

  • Because I’m gay/lesbian

    Votes: 3 2.2%
  • Because it’s an equal rights issue

    Votes: 78 57.4%
  • Because gays/lesbians love each other too

    Votes: 6 4.4%
  • Because I despise bigots/haters

    Votes: 1 0.7%
  • Because I don’t want to be labeled a bigot

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • I’m opposed to gay marriage

    Votes: 13 9.6%
  • I don’t care, either way

    Votes: 16 11.8%
  • Other

    Votes: 19 14.0%

  • Total voters
    136
  • Poll closed .
You mean like going contrary to the legal definition of marriage?

It's not "contrary" to the definition. I suppose it would modify the "one man and one woman" part to just say two adults, but the rest of the definition would remain the same.
 
It's not "contrary" to the definition. I suppose it would modify the "one man and one woman" part to just say two adults, but the rest of the definition would remain the same.
Then it's contrary to the definition, as the gender element is the primary reason for marriage.
 
I asked first. Seeing how you've proven unable to keep your opinions to yourself, you get to answer on behalf of Dragonfly.

Good luck.

wow now you are just flat out lying, LMAO so predicitiable

but ill go first because its easy

legal marriage as ZERO stipulations, requirements, or laws that reference the need of children or participation in sexual intercourse

DONE lol


your turn, please provide factual evidence that this things matter to legal marriage, we are all waiting
 
wow now you are just flat out lying, LMAO
Where's your proof? Now you've got two claims to prove. Seems your homework is starting to mount. I'd get busy if I were you.
 
Where's your proof? Now you've got two claims to prove. Seems your homework is starting to mount. I'd get busy if I were you.

wow could you be anymore dishonest, its common knowledge, its a fact no matter how much you spin it

but since you like to play games i have no problem making you look even more silly and proving your statement are 100% lies

here a link for requirements in PA for a county, nothing about children or sexual intercourse
Washington County Register of Wills, Washington Marriage License, PA

you lose, you are 100% WRONG:laughat:
 
Then it's contrary to the definition, as the gender element is the primary reason for marriage.

Can you provide a legal definition of marriage that delineates this (the bold)? It says it is between a man and woman, but it doesn't say that "gender is the primary reason for marriage." :confused:
 
Then it's contrary to the definition, as the gender element is the primary reason for marriage.

So a mutual respect and love for each other is not the primary reason for marriage?
 
Then it's contrary to the definition, as the gender element is the primary reason for marriage.
If people have conflicting understandings of the reason for marriage, it is not up to the government to pick one and prohibit the rest. We don't need big brother telling us what our reasons for doing things are and ought to be.
 
And they were dead wrong.

I'm curious. Why do you equate interracial marriage to gay marriage, when the former has zero control over its condition? Are you suggesting that ALL homosexuals are/were born gay?

People don't choose to be in interracial relationships?
 
This is the process for determining whether some law/restriction in law violates equal protection or not.

First, the person/group who believes their rights are being violated challenges the law in court. Which court system it starts in depends on which level, federal or state, the law would being violating the guaranteed rights on. So if the right is being challenged under a violation of equal protection guaranteed by the 14th Amendment, it would go to federal court.

In the case of equal protection, there are two parts. First, the court must determine if the people are actually being treated unequally under the law when compared to another, similarly situated group. Then, the state has to show why it is treating those groups "unequally", because they technically are legally allowed to do this as long as they are able to articulate why they are treating the groups differently, what state interest is being met in this unequal treatment and how exactly the unequal treatment actually meets the state interest being claimed to be furthered by it.

This is why every case is different. This is why the Loving decision did not automatically legalize same sex marriage or strike down the law saying that those behind on their child support could not get married or that prisoners couldn't get married without warden approval. These laws had to be individually challenged and proven to the court as to why the state's argument did not hold water for upholding the interest they claimed it did.

So then we go to each individual law that may be challenged pertaining to marriage and why they are all different. Allowing same sex couples to marry is different than allowing interracial couples to marry, not by much, but it is different. So it had to be challenged. Just as the child support/marriage law was (Zablocki v Redhail). Just as the prisoners needing warden permission was (Turner v Safley). I absolutely believe that polygamy laws will be challenged again, as they have been in the past. But they still would need to be challenged. Incest laws will likely be challenged, although it is likely they would only be challenged for specific relations, not to totally abolish these restrictions.

Once challenged, the state can make its arguments for why the restrictions are within the interest of the state, furthering a state interest. These are where the biggest differences will lie. Many people are treated unequally by laws but they don't make it far in the courts if to them at all because lawyers and judges know that the state's argument for why the unequal treatment is needed will be good enough.

Whether right or wrong in the past, we have reached the point where same sex relationships are legal and the state's arguments for keeping them from entering into marriage cannot be supported as actually furthering a state interest. With divorce, alternative methods of procreation, childless couples at a level in the US of 25%, DNA tests to keep children from being "bastards", remarriage, birth control, equal treatment of the sexes, and many other things that have changed in the last 40 years, it can really no longer be supported that marriage is for children, whether it was about children in the past or not. The religious/moral argument doesn't work. And even the Congressional Budget Committee has done a study that determined that same sex couples being allowed to marry would likely benefit the government budget, not harm it. You cannot prove "harm to society" and same sex couples being together does not harm those individuals or anyone else.

If we look at the other "groups" that may be treated unequally as far as marriage goes, the arguments for why restricting them would be different than those concerning same sex restrictions. Multiple spouses would cause major legal issues. Whether that should be enough to restrict them or not, would need to be decided elsewhere. Personally it is enough for me and it is a reasonable argument that would not apply to the current number limit, one spouse per person. Whether an immigrant spouse is male or female, black, white, red, or blue, it would still be just one person for the government to look into for each person trying to marry them (one example of legal/financial hardship on government for multiple spouses). It becomes a hardship for society though to check to ensure these couples are not committing fraud when we are talking 4, 10, 40 spouses, and we have already determined that it is important to society that these marriages should be checked out to ensure the people are not getting paid to get their "spouse" citizenship. If such a reasonable argument exists on a personal level for same sex marriage for individual people, fine, oppose same sex marriage for that grounds, but it shouldn't be because of why others might or might not support other types of marriage. But don't expect the Courts to agree with you. If they don't agree with me, I'm willing to accept that. But something like polygamy shouldn't be legal just because same sex marriage gets made legal. Incest too has its own arguments against it. Now, I don't think those arguments are strong enough when it comes to first cousins not being allowed to marry, but are when it comes to closer relations not being allowed to marry.
 
I asked first. Seeing how you've proven unable to keep your opinions to yourself, you get to answer on behalf of Dragonfly.

Good luck.
Hello Mr. Pot,I hear you are looking for Mr.Kettle.
You two seem to be very acquainted.

There are a bunch of questions that various posters have asked you that you so adamantly refused to answer.
Such as "Prove that you Deity even exists".
Oh wait,my bad,you already admitted that you can't.
The legal definition of marriage is not immutable like the Laws of Physics.
It can,and it will,be changed.
Whether you like it or not.


So what other Commandments are your pride and vanity going to cause you to break this thread?
 
Sperm donor ordered to pay child support to lesbian couple despite him giving up rights to the child | Mail Online

not directly related to gay marriage but....this is ****ed up. lesbian couple takes out an ad in craigslist looking for a sperm donor so they can have a kid. guy responds to ad, makes donation, signs away all rights to kid, lesbian couple splits up and mom can't pay the bills...now the state has ordered child support from the sperm donor.

WTF!!!!!!!!

You're right,that seems to be more related to the British Legal System then SSM debate here in America.
 
You're right,that seems to be more related to the British Legal System then SSM debate here in America.

what does a case in Kansas have to do with the british legal system?

edit: apparently someone saw it was a dailymail UK link and didn't bother to actually read the article ;)
 
Last edited:
what does a case in Kansas have to do with the british legal system?

edit: apparently someone saw it was a dailymail UK link and didn't bother to actually read the article ;)

Oops,my bad.I made a mistake.
Happens when I have to answer a clients call.
But I admit my error.
Unlike some people on this thread....

Ok.what does a single case in Kansas,have to do with this thread?
It doesn't matter what the sexual orientation of the sperm recipient.
The implications of that article is that any sperm donor can be liable for child support.
I suspect that decision willbe overturned on appeal.
 
Oops,my bad.I made a mistake.
Happens when I have to answer a clients call.
But I admit my error.
Unlike some people on this thread....

Ok.what does a single case in Kansas,have to do with this thread?
It doesn't matter what the sexual orientation of the sperm recipient.
The implications of that article is that any sperm donor can be liable for child support.
I suspect that decision willbe overturned on appeal.

it shows a possilbe problem with SSM that needs to be addressed/considered. what becomes of the children of such unions when/if they split up since only one partner, at best, is the "parent" of said children? not a bash against SSM, but something that needs to be addressed.

the problem in this case is that Kansas does not recognize SSM. this couple had adopted 8 (iirc) kids prior to contacting the sperm donor. all of them were considered single parent adoptions and only one partner put on the paperwork. (question: since the state went after the sperm donor for $$$$ to support this girl...why didn't they go back after the bio parents of the adopted kids for support? seems to me that 'the state" was just being petty and trying to punish this guy for helping a lesbian couple have a kid) the same with the girl born via sperm donor. only her mother was listed as a parent. the other lady in the relationship had no legal rights or responsibilities in regards to this child.

this will be an issue in all SSM where children are born, since only one partner will be biologically tied to the child. as I said, definitely not a reason to be against SSM, but definitely one of the details that needs to be ironed out in any legislation regarding SSM.


I also found it interesting that after being together for 8 years, this couple split up (relatively shortly after the birth of this child) and the "other" female from this couple is now in a relationship with a man
 
it shows a possilbe problem with SSM that needs to be addressed/considered. what becomes of the children of such unions when/if they split up since only one partner, at best, is the "parent" of said children? not a bash against SSM, but something that needs to be addressed.

the problem in this case is that Kansas does not recognize SSM. this couple had adopted 8 (iirc) kids prior to contacting the sperm donor. all of them were considered single parent adoptions and only one partner put on the paperwork. (question: since the state went after the sperm donor for $$$$ to support this girl...why didn't they go back after the bio parents of the adopted kids for support? seems to me that 'the state" was just being petty and trying to punish this guy for helping a lesbian couple have a kid) the same with the girl born via sperm donor. only her mother was listed as a parent. the other lady in the relationship had no legal rights or responsibilities in regards to this child.

this will be an issue in all SSM where children are born, since only one partner will be biologically tied to the child. as I said, definitely not a reason to be against SSM, but definitely one of the details that needs to be ironed out in any legislation regarding SSM.


I also found it slightly amusing that after being together for 8 years, this couple split up (relatively shortly after the birth of this child) and the "other" female from this couple is now in a relationship with a man

This issue ties into a larger issue,which would be Kansas' Adoption Laws.
If Kansas allowed SSM,it would be the other partner that would have to pay child support,not the sperm donor.
And aren't the names of sperm donors supposed to be confidential?

I agree that Kansas is being rather petty,and I suspect this case will be thrown out on appeal.
 
Hello Mr. Pot,I hear you are looking for Mr.Kettle.
You two seem to be very acquainted.

There are a bunch of questions that various posters have asked you that you so adamantly refused to answer.
Such as "Prove that you Deity even exists".
Oh wait,my bad,you already admitted that you can't.
The legal definition of marriage is not immutable like the Laws of Physics.
It can,and it will,be changed.
Whether you like it or not.


So what other Commandments are your pride and vanity going to cause you to break this thread?

The laws of nature and biology are concrete and the reproductive system was meant for just what the name indicates.

I swear, liberals want to make things illogical as **** by trying to force things to be equal which aren't meant to be.
 
Sperm donor ordered to pay child support to lesbian couple despite him giving up rights to the child | Mail Online

not directly related to gay marriage but....this is ****ed up. lesbian couple takes out an ad in craigslist looking for a sperm donor so they can have a kid. guy responds to ad, makes donation, signs away all rights to kid, lesbian couple splits up and mom can't pay the bills...now the state has ordered child support from the sperm donor.

WTF!!!!!!!!

I absolutely agree that this particular situation is messed up and shouldn't happen, just as such a thing shouldn't happen if it were an opposite sex couple who couldn't have children due to low sperm count/mobility, used a sperm donor, split sometime after the kid was born, and then the mother went after the bio father rather than the man she was married to. This is a problem with our court system and laws, rather than having anything to do with same sex couples raising children. It is like that messed up situation where the man had to pay child support because the woman gave him a blow job and saved the sperm.
 
This issue ties into a larger issue,which would be Kansas' Adoption Laws.
If Kansas allowed SSM,it would be the other partner that would have to pay child support,not the sperm donor.

or the tax payers would have to foot the bill, if both partners were broke.

I just found it interesting since this seems to be an issue that no one here has considered.
 
I absolutely agree that this particular situation is messed up and shouldn't happen, just as such a thing shouldn't happen if it were an opposite sex couple who couldn't have children due to low sperm count/mobility, used a sperm donor, split sometime after the kid was born, and then the mother went after the bio father rather than the man she was married to. This is a problem with our court system and laws, rather than having anything to do with same sex couples raising children. It is like that messed up situation where the man had to pay child support because the woman gave him a blow job and saved the sperm.

agreed, to a point, and i only brought it up because any children 'conceived" in a SSM will, by neccessity, have to include a 3rd party and therefore the issue needs to be addressed in any legislation addressing SSM.
 
The laws of nature and biology are concrete and the reproductive system was meant for just what the name indicates.

I swear, liberals want to make things illogical as **** by trying to force things to be equal which aren't meant to be.

The laws of nature and biology tell us that higher level animals, such as ourselves, use sex as a form of social bonding. In fact, dolphins put their sexual organs into other dolphins nostrils. Pretty sure no baby dolphins are being made that way, but it does occur more often than to just call it "a slip and miss".

There is nothing illogical about having sex for pleasure and bonding. And since we do have sex for other purposes besides trying to produce offspring, then it is not necessary to assume that people have to be able to produce offspring to have sex.
 
agreed, to a point, and i only brought it up because any children 'conceived" in a SSM will, by neccessity, have to include a 3rd party and therefore the issue needs to be addressed in any legislation addressing SSM.

No it doesn't. It needs to be addressed in different legislation that covers this for every such couple. Whether we are talking about sperm donors, egg donors, surrogate mothers, or bio parents giving up their children for adoption, we need to make relinquishing of parental rights and responsibilities permanent. It should not be a "for the most part" thing for either side.
 
The laws of nature and biology are concrete and the reproductive system was meant for just what the name indicates.

I swear, liberals want to make things illogical as **** by trying to force things to be equal which aren't meant to be.

I-Lets get this straight for the umpteenth time.I AM NOT A LIBERAL.If you can't argue on the merits without resorting to libel and deliberate lies,don't bother arguing at all.
2-Are you saying that just because my wife had her reproductive organs removed due to cancer,that somehow she is inferior to other women,or our marriage is inferior to those that can reproduce?What if she was born barren,are you going to say she's inferior also?
 
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