How long will it take to repeal the 2nd amendment?

Viv said:

Attempt to avoid facts.

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Scotland, how sweet.

TurtleDude said:

there are no facts one can use to claim gun bans or UK style laws would do anything positive in the USA (disarming citizens and making them criminals might be seen as a positive to some)

Scottish Whites are more violent per capita than white Americans btw. I think Scotland is one of the more violent first world nations there is

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They make great ale though. :mrgreen:

viv said:

You mean you have no facts you can use to disclaim it

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Since when does logic demand that one must have facts to disclaim an idea? Isn't it the other way around?

Viv said:

And yet the murder stats are lower. Imagine what would be happening if we had guns. :doh

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The incidences of rape and assault are more than double per capita than the US. Considering the large number of crimes stopped by private gun ownership in the US, what is your argument that the people assaulted in the UK, and the women being raped, should not be allowed to defend themselves?

rudygetsplenty said:

Since when does logic demand that one must have facts to disclaim an idea? Isn't it the other way around?

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No.

Feel free to show your facts to disclaim that logic.

The incidences of rape and assault are more than double per capita than the US. Considering the large number of crimes stopped by private gun ownership in the US, what is your argument that the people assaulted in the UK, and the women being raped, should not be allowed to defend themselves?

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Bla bla bla...where are your facts and where are you pulling your lack of stats from?

If you don't have any, I will just say no, they're half per capita what they are in US. I pulled that out of the air, same as you unless you can link to credible sources.

Which are in any case irrelevant, as the vast majority of rape is committed indoors by someone the victim knows.

American said:

Scotland, how sweet.

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American said:

They make great ale though. :mrgreen:

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Cheers...:2wave:

Viv said:

No one can even remember Gorbie. He's history and no one was ever afraid of him to begin with, the most West-friendly President ever. However, the US has the strongest military force in the world. Why would it fear attack from the gang that can't shoot straight? And what makes you think the peasants revolting is more intimidating than the strongest military force in the world?

No logic whatsoever in any of that.

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Just because you think no one remembers "Gorbie" doesn't mean that what he said is some how less accurate or pertinate.

And it doesn't matter how large or good a military is if the force going against it is larger by 20-1. And remember, if our government gets to be too tyrannical half of that military would go awol and help the rest of the populace. Possibly even more than half considering every military member that I have ever met values the constitution far more than our politicians in the government.

As I've said in previous posts, let's think about this scenario: Guns are banned, criminals get guns through black markets (or just use steak knives), and there would be an increase in crime due to new "gun cartels". I dont know if everyone should be armed or if there are just too many idiots, because that's what really kills people.

Viv said:

Then you are saying you don't need the populace to own guns. You only "need" military grade arms.

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No the possession of arms means that it would be effective against by any thing short of a nuclear war. And the general populace would have the capability to carry arms. The arms would include military grade arms and lower.

Viv said:

Not really. The point I thought, is the safety of children and other innocent people.

With the example of European countries and many, many others, why would US suddenly become incapable of continuing to run a non oppressive state? How much of the US military do you believe would go along with that in reality? And if you're not in fear that your own military (staffed by your own families) would suddenly turn against you and implement a dictator state, then who is it you think is going to do that to you?

It's nonsense, isn't it. Just is not a threat.

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It would be difficult in a European system for a tyrannical government to start due to the fact European governments have a multiparty system where as the US has a 2 party system. It is more likely that one party would get control of the government here than in Europe because of that.

Also while the US military is not a threat to our liberties as much having federal agencies with police powers like the DEA on the other had is and if a jaunta would try to take over the US it would do so through these agecies with police powers.

Lets just give everyone access to the foot ball. That way if they are ever threatened, they can threaten to destroy the world. So no would would ever be crazy enough to assault them.

Right?

Nordenkalt444 said:

As I've said in previous posts, let's think about this scenario: Guns are banned, criminals get guns through black markets (or just use steak knives), and there would be an increase in crime due to new "gun cartels". I dont know if everyone should be armed or if there are just too many idiots, because that's what really kills people.

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If guns were illegal less criminals could obtain it.

If a criminal has a gun and you have a gun. Odds are your gun won't do you much good.

shiang said:

If guns were illegal less criminals could obtain it.

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Says who? They already have them.... do you think they are just going to hand them over? Or do you support door to door warrantless searches of every home, location, and place on U.S. Soil?

If a criminal has a gun and you have a gun. Odds are your gun won't do you much good.

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Explain this logic.....

shiang said:

If guns were illegal less criminals could obtain it.

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:2rofll:

You must be right, it worked for alcohol and drugs!

shiang said:

If a criminal has a gun and you have a gun. Odds are your gun won't do you much good.

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Yeah, because no one ever took down an armed man with a gunshot :roll:... Might as well have the police turn their guns in since they wont do them much good.

You ignoramuses really need to learn that it isn't that no one wants to have a rational discussion about gun control, its that you're all as retarded as your ideas and your ignorance makes it impossible to take your naive tripe seriously.

Lachean said:

:2rofll:

You must be right, it worked for alcohol and drugs!



Yeah, because no one ever took down an armed man with a gunshot :roll:... Might as well have the police turn their guns in since they wont do them much good.

You ignoramuses really need to learn that it isn't that no one wants to have a rational discussion about gun control, its that you're all as retarded as your ideas and your ignorance makes it impossible to take your naive tripe seriously.

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Your lack of a brain just amuses me. I pull a gun and point it to your head gl using your gun.

You can't do that to the police for two reasons. One you're not suppose to approach a police officer, and if you do in a suspicious way they are aleart. Two, police officers get communication and back up so yes one can get killed but odds are you're not going to get very far.

It did work for alcohol and drugs. Learn to read the word less.

Stupid people are always the problem of the world. Unfortunately there's no way to get rid of em and the best we can do is work our way around.

shiang said:

Your lack of a brain just amuses me. I pull a gun and point it to your head gl using your gun.

You can't do that to the police for two reasons. One you're not suppose to approach a police officer, and if you do in a suspicious way they are aleart. Two, police officers get communication and back up so yes one can get killed but odds are you're not going to get very far.

It did work for alcohol and drugs. Learn to read the word less.

Stupid people are always the problem of the world. Unfortunately there's no way to get rid of em and the best we can do is work our way around.

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You reveal a huge lack of understanding about violent crime and how it develops, as well as police work, in this post.

A person who is not alert is a walking cheeseburger looking for a predator, and nothing will help him. Having said that, it is rare that a criminal simply sticks a gun to your head without some preliminary actions that tend to warn the alert observer.

Numerous news stories have been posted to DP about armed citizens who took down armed criminals with their guns. Not long ago, a legally armed citizen shot and killed a robber armed with a shotgun at a Waffle House near my home.

It is more complex than your simplistic view.

Also police work... it is also far more complex. Police often have to get close to subjects in the course of investigating a situation, and a call can turn violent suddenly or change from "apparently unarmed subject" to "oh chit he's got a gun!" in a split second.

Even so, police carry both guns and Tasers these days... because there are some situations where the gun is the right tool for the job.

Like the mother that shot the intruder recently, who was trying to break into the closet she and her children took refuge in when he broke into the house... what should she have used, harsh language?

shiang said:

If guns were illegal less criminals could obtain it.

If a criminal has a gun and you have a gun. Odds are your gun won't do you much good.

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shiang said:

Your lack of a brain just amuses me. I pull a gun and point it to your head gl using your gun.

You can't do that to the police for two reasons. One you're not suppose to approach a police officer, and if you do in a suspicious way they are aleart. Two, police officers get communication and back up so yes one can get killed but odds are you're not going to get very far.

It did work for alcohol and drugs. Learn to read the word less.

Stupid people are always the problem of the world. Unfortunately there's no way to get rid of em and the best we can do is work our way around.

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The ignorance displayed in these two posts is just astounding.

Goshin took care of much of your tripe so I'm going to address the one part that he didn't which I shall bold just so you know what I'm talking about.

First: If the banning of alcohol and drugs work so wonderful then why is it that so many people used both while they were banned? Why is it that people made $$$ off of illegally making and transporting them? Why is it that the prohibition not only got repealed but during its time thousands of people were acquitted via jury nullification? (if you don't know what that is then I suggest you look it up) Why is it that currently there are juries out there aquitting drug users via jury nullification right now?

Second: "Learn to read the word less."? WTH? That sure seems like a sure fire way to remain ignorant and stupid. (stupid if you actually have that as a philosophy.

So if something doesn't work 100% of the time then it's not worth doing. Very conservative black and white reasoning.

earthworm said:

How about the right to walk down the street without a fear of being shot ?
And these law-abiding "sane" men, are they 20% of the population ? 40% ?....
A law with teeth in it will have an effect on the criminals.....

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Has the death penalty brought an end to crime of murders?

No?!?

I know, maybe if we execute the murderers twice.

That should do it!