• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

Gun Control

Would you support more restrictions on guns if they had the potential to save lives?

  • Yes

    Votes: 59 39.9%

  • No

    Votes: 74 50.0%

  • Others

    Votes: 15 10.1%
  • Total voters
    148
Captain America said:
I would think that person-to-person sales, which is as unregulated as unregulated can get, could be done much like transferring titles on a vehicle.

I mean, if you sell a dude your car, you want him to transfer the title immediately so as to relieve you of the responsibility from that car. If Dude has a wreck or gets a buttload of parking tickets and the car is still in your name, they are going to come looking for you.

Same should go for guns I suppose.

I got no problem with that really. What do you guys think about that?
Click to expand...

well I always sell guns to people i know have CCWs and that I know don't have records (like lawyers and cops). If i don't have anyone interested in a gun I want to get rid of, I pay my dealer a 50 dollar commission he gets for selling it On his books for that reason

but If I had a record and had some guns I would only be selling the guns on the down low to people buying on the down low and that is what happens most of the time with prohibited persons. there are plenty of ways to bust lots of the illegal acquisitions of guns

did YOU know that if you buy more than ONE handgun in 5 business days or less from the same dealer, the dealer has to report that to the ATF. now I have bought 2 guns many times from the same dealer on the same day and I have NEVER had the ATF inquire. Probably because they know I am a well known competitive shooter etc. But I know where some clown bought 20 Jennings at one time (these are the guns that should come with a ski mask or half a pair of panty hose) and the ATF did not look into it UNTIL half the guns ended up in NYC a few months later

Straw purchases-easy to bust. You buy a gun for your boyfriend who has a record a mile long and he gets busted, the gun will come back to you. some tough questions will follow

there are plenty of ways to really put a dent in crooks getting guns
 
TurtleDude said:
no they don't. some of them look forward to massacres so they can use the deaths to justify their jihad against gun rights. some of them use the massacres to get more face time and get more donations to their disgusting organizations that try to rape the constitution
Click to expand...

If they truly believed eliminating guns would save the lives of our children, then perhaps their heart is in the right place as even the most ardent gun supporter loves his/her children more.

But, even IF their heart is in the right place, their head is squarely up their ass because guns are here and guns are going to stay here. That's a simple fact. A minute spent fantasizing about their eradication is a minute wasted.

The focus should be on the direction society is taking in terms of senseless violence and the causes that warp brains that has brought us here.


Get rid of guns and evil will use a knife. Get rid of knives, evil will use his fist.

I would venture to say that more people are killed in America using fists than semi-automatic assault weapons. Any takers?
 
Captain America said:
I would think that person-to-person sales, which is as unregulated as unregulated can get, could be done much like transferring titles on a vehicle.

I mean, if you sell a dude your car, you want him to transfer the title immediately so as to relieve you of the responsibility from that car. If Dude has a wreck or gets a buttload of parking tickets and the car is still in your name, they are going to come looking for you.

Same should go for guns I suppose.

I got no problem with that really. What do you guys think about that?
Click to expand...


I think that makes a lot of sense.
 
Captain America said:
If they truly believed eliminating guns would save the lives of our children, then perhaps their heart is in the right place as even the most ardent gun supporter loves his/her children more.

But, even IF their heart is in the right place, their head is squarely up their ass because guns are here and guns are going to stay here. That's a simple fact. A minute spent fantasizing about their eradication is a minute wasted.

The focus should be on the direction society is taking in terms of senseless violence and the causes that warp brains that has brought us here.


Get rid of guns and evil will use a knife. Get rid of knives, evil will use his fist.

I would venture to say that more people are killed in America using fists than semi-automatic assault weapons. Any takers?
Click to expand...

well in 1993, the police chief of trenton NJ said his officers had a greater chance of being mauled by escaped zoo tigers than being attacked by a criminal using one of the guns clinton wanted to ban
 
American said:
You probably could have confirmed that at a gun show. You've got nothing to teach anyone here, as usual.
Click to expand...

You cannot teach somebody whose mind is a closed off wall. Thank you for confirming that.
 
Captain America said:
If they truly believed eliminating guns would save the lives of our children, then perhaps their heart is in the right place as even the most ardent gun supporter loves his/her children more.

But, even IF their heart is in the right place, their head is squarely up their ass because guns are here and guns are going to stay here. That's a simple fact. A minute spent fantasizing about their eradication is a minute wasted.

The focus should be on the direction society is taking in terms of senseless violence and the causes that warp brains that has brought us here.


Get rid of guns and evil will use a knife. Get rid of knives, evil will use his fist.

I would venture to say that more people are killed in America using fists than semi-automatic assault weapons. Any takers?
Click to expand...



I just don't see a lot of wacko ******s taking out crowds of people with their fists. Just sayin'.........
 
haymarket said:
So I do have to go through a background check when I purchase a gun at a gun show?
Click to expand...
depends on the state and the show

but that is true about sales any place else

FFLs have to conduct BGC

private citizens do not under FEDERAL Law

some states only require private sellers at GUNSHOWS to go through a dealer to conduct a sale. they don't have to in other areas

I think one or two states ban private sales. of course that is as effective as banning drug deals
 
Captain America said:
I would venture to say that more people are killed in America using fists than semi-automatic assault weapons. Any takers?
Click to expand...
Certianly, more people are killed with bladed/blunt weapons.
The uniform crime reports have this information...
 
Catawba said:
I just don't see a lot of wacko ******s taking out crowds of people with their fists. Just sayin'.........
Click to expand...

nah that would be tough guys. but his point is correct. physical assaults with hands and feet kill more people than criminals using "Semi automatic assault weapons" Whatever those may be
 
TurtleDude said:
depends on the state and the show

but that is true about sales any place else

FFLs have to conduct BGC

private citizens do not under FEDERAL Law

some states only require private sellers at GUNSHOWS to go through a dealer to conduct a sale. they don't have to in other areas

I think one or two states ban private sales. of course that is as effective as banning drug deals
Click to expand...

Thank you for confirming that there is indeed a gun show loophole where a person can avoid a background check but still buy a firearm.
 
TurtleDude said:
well I always sell guns to people i know have CCWs and that I know don't have records (like lawyers and cops). If i don't have anyone interested in a gun I want to get rid of, I pay my dealer a 50 dollar commission he gets for selling it On his books for that reason

but If I had a record and had some guns I would only be selling the guns on the down low to people buying on the down low and that is what happens most of the time with prohibited persons. there are plenty of ways to bust lots of the illegal acquisitions of guns

did YOU know that if you buy more than ONE handgun in 5 business days or less from the same dealer, the dealer has to report that to the ATF. now I have bought 2 guns many times from the same dealer on the same day and I have NEVER had the ATF inquire. Probably because they know I am a well known competitive shooter etc. But I know where some clown bought 20 Jennings at one time (these are the guns that should come with a ski mask or half a pair of panty hose) and the ATF did not look into it UNTIL half the guns ended up in NYC a few months later

Straw purchases-easy to bust. You buy a gun for your boyfriend who has a record a mile long and he gets busted, the gun will come back to you. some tough questions will follow

there are plenty of ways to really put a dent in crooks getting guns
Click to expand...

Right on. If more people were as conscientious as you are TD, it wouldn't be an issue.

But, I do think we can, and should, do more on unregulated gun commerce. And actually enforce harsh penalties on the registered owners or straw buyers of any guns involved in crimes whether they were a part of the crime or not.

I could live with that. Then we gotta find a way to lock up the looney birds.
 
haymarket said:
Thank you for confirming that there is indeed a gun show loophole where a person can avoid a background check but still buy a firearm.
Click to expand...

that is false. the laws are the same under federal law for gun shows as they are for those sellers in any other venue

for most of our history no one had to undergo a background check. congress decided to change that only for licensed dealers

you operate under the false premise that background checks are the norm

they were not of over 200 years and never have been for private sellers
 
Catawba said:
I just don't see a lot of wacko ******s taking out crowds of people with their fists. Just sayin'.........
Click to expand...

I agree that mass killings surely bring more media coverage.

This week, Chicago just set a new record of 500 murders in their fair city this year. Five Hundred.

It gets about as much total coverage as Sandy Hook does in 20 minutes.

And, who woulda thunk, that violent crime rates have actually gone down, what with all the people getting blown away here and there. But they have, I'm told.
 
Captain America said:
Right on. If more people were as conscientious as you are TD, it wouldn't be an issue.

But, I do think we can, and should, do more on unregulated gun commerce. And actually enforce harsh penalties on the registered owners or straw buyers of any guns involved in crimes whether they were a part of the crime or not.

I could live with that. Then we gotta find a way to lock up the looney birds.
Click to expand...

so if someone breaks into my alarmed home and steals a gun in the locked case and then uses a torch to cut the locks off and then shoots someone I should be prosecuted?
 
Captain America said:
I agree that mass killings surely bring more media coverage.

This week, Chicago just set a new record of 500 murders in their fair city this year. Five Hundred.

It gets about as much total coverage as Sandy Hook does in 20 minutes.

And, who woulda thunk, that violent crime rates have actually gone down, what with all the people getting blown away here and there. But they have, I'm told.
Click to expand...


None of the gun haters seem to want to acknowledge Chicago has draconian gun laws and twice has been slapped around by the courts for the idiotic bans
 
TurtleDude said:
None of the gun haters seem to want to acknowledge Chicago has draconian gun laws and twice has been slapped around by the courts for the idiotic bans
Click to expand...

Chicago is awful, I have a permanent scar in my right hand from a foiled robbery in Chicago, one block off the magnificent mile.
 
Rocketman said:
Chicago is awful, I have a permanent scar in my right hand from a foiled robbery in Chicago, one block off the magnificent mile.
Click to expand...

I on the other hand, have an evidence tag and a little plastic bag of a PMC JHP 9mm that was retrieved from the colon of the mope who tried to mug me in an area where honest people could get permits to carry pistols. the only scar is on my Smith and wesson, when they put an evidence tag on it for the grand jury, the wire scratched the satin-nickel finish

I prefer that sort of reminder of an attempted robbery over yours
 
Captain America said:
I agree that mass killings surely bring more media coverage.

This week, Chicago just set a new record of 500 murders in their fair city this year. Five Hundred.

It gets about as much total coverage as Sandy Hook does in 20 minutes.

And, who woulda thunk, that violent crime rates have actually gone down, what with all the people getting blown away here and there. But they have, I'm told.
Click to expand...


No one has convinced me that easy access to guns by criminals and crazies will lower the murders in Chicago.
 
TurtleDude said:
so if someone breaks into my alarmed home and steals a gun in the locked case and then uses a torch to cut the locks off and then shoots someone I should be prosecuted?
Click to expand...

It would require some tweaking I'm sure. If someone stole your car and ran up on a crowded sidewalk with it and they found the car window had been busted out and the ignition hotwired, you could hardly prosecute the owner for negligence. But if someone's guns got stolen, and they never file a complaint or a report, I'm sure some negligence might be levied against the owner.

It might be a pain in the but to hammer out but I'm cool with trying to. I don't feel threatened by that type of legislation. I would think the more responsible gun owners could get onboard with that too, no? I think the gun owners should step off the defensive here and take the lead in actually addressing the problem. I mean, all the good people want to stop this violent trend be they pro-gun or anti-gun in mindset. That is a good place to start building.

As a gun owner, I know what I am comfortable with and what I'm not comfortable with. Tighter commerce rules and penalties don't threaten me that much because I have always obeyed the laws anyway. If someone else has a problem with being scrutinized when transfering gun ownership, I don't consider their problem to be mine so I really don't care.
 
Catawba said:
No one has convinced me that easy access to guns by criminals and crazies will lower the murders in Chicago.
Click to expand...

Well, we're talkin' apple and oranges in some ways.

In Smalltown Ohio, guns are a family tradition often used when hunting and responsible recreation. Every once in a while you get your berserkoid who shoots up a church or a school. Man bites dog. And that makes news.

In Chicago, guns are used for everyday conflict resolution. More people are systematically killed there in a month than two Sandy Hooks. Thats equal to about 24 Sandy Hooks a year, actually. Dog bites man. No news here.

I can understand why big city mayors would be anti-gun. Guns are a serious problem to them.

Although, on a brighter note, New York City homicides and shootings are at a record low. New York City homicides, shootings at modern record lows - U.S. News
 
Last edited:
TurtleDude said:
None of the gun haters seem to want to acknowledge Chicago has draconian gun laws and twice has been slapped around by the courts for the idiotic bans
Click to expand...

I think street guns are a big part of the problem in Chicago. It has become the method of conflict resolution. Hypothetically, if there were no guns in Chicago, my money is on their murder rate dropping. (But we know that ain't gonna happen anymore than we can get toothpaste back into the tube. They're to chicken**** to beat the **** outta somebody eye-to-eye. Just "bus' a cap in dey ass."
 
Rocketman said:
Chicago is awful, I have a permanent scar in my right hand from a foiled robbery in Chicago, one block off the magnificent mile.
Click to expand...

Are you referring to the lottery magnificant mile? That's north of Chicago, near Waukegan and Gurnee, near the stateline, isn't it?
 
TurtleDude said:
I on the other hand, have an evidence tag and a little plastic bag of a PMC JHP 9mm that was retrieved from the colon of the mope who tried to mug me in an area where honest people could get permits to carry pistols. the only scar is on my Smith and wesson, when they put an evidence tag on it for the grand jury, the wire scratched the satin-nickel finish

I prefer that sort of reminder of an attempted robbery over yours
Click to expand...

You should sue for damages. LOL!
 
Captain America said:
I think street guns are a big part of the problem in Chicago. It has become the method of conflict resolution. Hypothetically, if there were no guns in Chicago, my money is on their murder rate dropping. (But we know that ain't gonna happen anymore than we can get toothpaste back into the tube. They're to chicken**** to beat the **** outta somebody eye-to-eye. Just "bus' a cap in dey ass."
Click to expand...

If there were no illegal drug dealing in the USA I can guarantee we'd have far less crime
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom