Gun Control

TurtleDude said:

after the ban I bought tons of discounted glock and Beretta magazines that say FOR LAW ENFORCEMENT USE ONLY.

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Again, glad to hear the ban was in no way a hardship for you!

Catawba said:

Again, glad to hear the ban was in no way a hardship for you!

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you are both spamming and lying.

Boo Radley said:

That's nonsense and just a way to avoid talking the issue. There's no need for this kind of silliness.

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Actually it is the truth, the goal of your leadership is to make more people dependent on government and more voters beholden to the Democrat santa clauses

Catawba said:

Then you didn't purchase a Colt AR15, or high capacity magazines during the ban as you originally claimed.

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I see you feel the need to lie to yourself in order to avoid admitting you are wrong. Enjoy.

TurtleDude said:

Actually it is the truth, the goal of your leadership is to make more people dependent on government and more voters beholden to the Democrat santa clauses

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No, that's just being lazy in argumentation. The truth is people see things differently and have actual reasons for it.

TurtleDude said:

you are both spamming and lying.

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What is the lie?

H. Lee White said:

I see you feel the need to lie to yourself in order to avoid admitting you are wrong. Enjoy.

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There is not another issue where one side is so completely dishonest and so completely devoid of any factual information to bolster their idiocy

Boo Radley said:

No, that's just being lazy in argumentation. The truth is people see things differently and have actual reasons for it.

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yeah some people think they are helping people (usually themselves) by increasing public dependency

tell us BOO since this is a GUN thread do you support reinstituting the clinton gun ban and if so why

its a simple question-lets see if you can answer it directly

TurtleDude said:

There is not another issue where one side is so completely dishonest and so completely devoid of any factual information to bolster their idiocy

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Oh, come on. Absolutes now? :lamo

TurtleDude said:

There is not another issue where one side is so completely dishonest and so completely devoid of any factual information to bolster their idiocy

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Without doubt.

TurtleDude said:

yeah some people think they are helping people (usually themselves) by increasing public dependency

tell us BOO since this is a GUN thread do you support reinstituting the clinton gun ban and if so why

its a simple question-lets see if you can answer it directly

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I'm ok with it. Not a big issue, but I'm ok with it. Can you follow that answer?

And it has not one thing to do with dependency for anyone.

Boo Radley said:

No, that's just being lazy in argumentation. The truth is people see things differently and have actual reasons for it.

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How will more gun control laws keep guns out of the hands of criminals? How will that affect the black market for guns? Are you aware of how many guns are estimated to be in circulation in the United States right now?

"According to an 2012 issues brief by the Council on Foreign Relations, the financial value of the illegal trafficking of small arms and light weapons is worth $1 Billion a year. This figure is higher than the previously reported figure of $170 Million to $320 Million that was reported by the United Nations Office on Drugs and Crime in 2010."

Source: “The Global Regime for Transnational Crime,” Council on Foreign Relations, Issue Brief, July 2, 2012.

Boo Radley said:

I'm ok with it. Not a big issue, but I'm ok with it. Can you follow that answer?

And it has not one thing to do with dependency for anyone.

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so tell us why are you OK with an infringement on other peoples' rights

that seems rather cavalier

ChrisL said:

How will more gun control laws keep guns out of the hands of criminals? How will that affect the black market for guns? Are you aware of how many guns are estimated to be in circulation in the United States right now?

"According to an 2012 issues brief by the Council on Foreign Relations, the financial value of the illegal trafficking of small arms and light weapons is worth $1 Billion a year. This figure is higher than the previously reported figure of $170 Million to $320 Million that was reported by the United Nations Office on Drugs and Crime in 2010."

Source: “The Global Regime for Transnational Crime,” Council on Foreign Relations, Issue Brief, July 2, 2012.

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As I said earlier, criminals don't worry me. Stupid and mentally I'll people concern me more.

But, the question I was asked concern my support. As I said, I'm ok with it, and my reasoning has nothing to do with criminals.

Boo Radley said:

As I said earlier, criminals don't worry me. Stupid and mentally I'll people concern me more.

But, the question I was asked concern my support. As I said, I'm ok with it, and my reasoning has nothing to do with criminals.

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well do tell us what your reasoning is given crime control is not a factor

what else can possibly justify infringing on the rights of non-criminals

Here is an interesting viewpoint that kind of puts things into perspective.

Gun Bans Won't Work

Prohibition

The US engaged in a very interesting experiment between 1920 and 1933: it banned the manufacture, transportation and sale of alcohol. What was learned?
Alcohol consumption did not end, despite significant efforts by Federal, state and local governments;
Making the production and sale of alcohol illegal simply meant the market was served by criminals;
Violence increased as different gangs fought over market control;
Alcohol prices increased significantly;
The quality of the alcohol products varied, creating greater health risks.
Drugs

I just completed an article on US drug policies. The US bans the possession, production and sale of many drugs. Have the bans worked? No. Recognizing that no country has come even close to doing as much as the US has to reduce illicit drug use, the US rankings on prevalence of use (among countries with populations of 1 million and up) are Cannabis – 4th, opium – 1st, Amphetamines – 5th, Cocaine – 5th, and Ecstasy – 11th.

I concluded the US “drug war” is worse than Prohibition because it has created a criminal element resulting in nearly 100,000 homicides per year. The US has by far the highest incarceration rate of any country in the world (730 prisoners per 100,000 citizens). And 25% of the prisoners are non-violent drug offenders.

Since 1996, the US government has spent more than $150 billion to cut off illicit drug supplies. Last year, the government spent more than $15 billion to reduce supplies, with 36% of that going to “domestic law enforcement” and 16% to “domestic interdiction”. More than $2 billion was spent internationally.

Despite these efforts, I estimate US illegal drug sales at $400 billion annually.

In short, the drug bans are not working.

Smoking

What has been done in the US with cigarettes is interesting. Smoking is a well-documented real killer – more than 400,000 die annually in the US from smoking. Nevertheless, smoking is legal. But what has been done to curb smoking is working: the adult smoking rate has fallen from over 40% in 1965 to under 20% today.

So what is being done to curb smoking? While cigarettes can by bought, their sale to minors is restricted. They are taxed heavily (taxes levied per pack are the equivalent to a 71% rate, and campaigns about their dangers are continually run.)

Prostitution

Nevada is the only state where prostitution is legal. Does that mean the bans in the other 49 states are working? No. The bans are not serious, just politically correct.

Overeating

Overeating is a dangerous addiction. The only restriction I know of is Mayor Bloomberg’s limitation on the size of soft drinks in NYC.

Conclusions

What are the lessons from this review for new gun restrictions? In the US, if there is a market for a product, it will be served. Bans don’t work. Banning any type of gun will result in the market being served by criminals. Approximately 10 million guns are sold legally in the US every year[1] – a big business.

TurtleDude said:

so tell us why are you OK with an infringement on other peoples' rights

that seems rather cavalier

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I don't consider it an infringement. I believe it is established law that weapons can be regulated. You're free to own weapons, and are only regulated as to which ones. No REAL infringement.

Boo Radley said:

I don't consider it an infringement. I believe it is established law that weapons can be regulated. You're free to own weapons, and are only regulated as to which ones. No REAL infringement.

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that is dishonest and stupid. you have to show a justification for a law beyond saying you don't think it infringes on the RIGHTS of others

it would be like me saying I am OK with laws against homosexual sodomy noting that gay men can have sex with women. its easy to say stuff that impacts activities you do not engage in aren't infringements

Boo Radley said:

As I said earlier, criminals don't worry me. Stupid and mentally I'll people concern me more.

But, the question I was asked concern my support. As I said, I'm ok with it, and my reasoning has nothing to do with criminals.

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Yes, but now I am asking you a question.

What do you mean criminals don't bother you? Those are the ones who should bother you the most because that is where MOST gun violence happens, during home invasions, robberies, etc. School shootings are actually pretty rare. Our 24/7 news cycle makes it look like these incidents are much more common than they actually are. A gun ban or tighter restrictions do not keep guns out of the hands of anyone but the law-abiding people. Even people with a mental illness can get guns illegally.

ChrisL said:

Yes, but now I am asking you a question.

What do you mean criminals don't bother you? Those are the ones who should bother you the most because that is where MOST gun violence happens, during home invasions, robberies, etc. School shootings are actually pretty rare. Our 24/7 news cycle makes it look like these incidents are much more common than they actually are. A gun ban or tighter restrictions do not keep guns out of the hands of anyone but the law-abiding people. Even people with a mental illness can get guns illegally.

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when he made that comment his slip was showing. its all about hassling honest gun owners

TurtleDude said:

well do tell us what your reasoning is given crime control is not a factor

what else can possibly justify infringing on the rights of non-criminals

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As I said, stupid people and mentally people concern me. There's not really any practical reason for such weapons outside a war zone, and in the hands of the stupid and the mentally ill can be quite deadly. As I said, not a huge issue, but something that would not upset me in the least.

Btw, ten years on an ambulance, I never picked up anyone shot a criminal or any criminal shot by a victim. However, stupid people shot each other a lot. While my personal experience isn't a large enough sample, stats do back up that is who is getting shot the most. Accidental shootings and suicides far out weight any other deaths by gun shot. I only tell so you know what influences my views. Stupid people concern me.

TurtleDude said:

that is dishonest and stupid. you have to show a justification for a law beyond saying you don't think it infringes on the RIGHTS of others

it would be like me saying I am OK with laws against homosexual sodomy noting that gay men can have sex with women. its easy to say stuff that impacts activities you do not engage in aren't infringements

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So an opinion you don't like is dishonest?

You're getting lazy TD. Anyway, read my last post to you for a reason.

Boo Radley said:

As I said, stupid people and mentally people concern me. There's not really any practical reason for such weapons outside a war zone, and in the hands of the stupid and the mentally ill can be quite deadly. As I said, not a huge issue, but something that would not upset me in the least.

Btw, ten years on an ambulance, I never picked up anyone shot a criminal or any criminal shot by a victim. However, stupid people shot each other a lot. While my personal experience isn't a large enough sample, stats do back up that is who is getting shot the most. Accidental shootings and suicides far out weight any other deaths by gun shot. I only tell so you know what influences my views. Stupid people concern me.

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so are civilian cops in a war zone? geez that is a stupid comment.

I shot a criminal, I cannot help it that you think your experience can be extrapolated to the rest of the use

how are accidents and suicides more likely to take place with a 30 round weapon vs a 5 round one

do you realize how moronic your reasons are.

accidental discharges don't involve more than one or two rounds

suicides-tought to have more than ONE shot (unless you were one of those troopers who had dirt on clinton and died from THREE GUNSHOTS TO THE BACK OF THEIR HEAD and have it ruled a suicide)

Boo Radley said:

As I said, stupid people and mentally people concern me. There's not really any practical reason for such weapons outside a war zone, and in the hands of the stupid and the mentally ill can be quite deadly. As I said, not a huge issue, but something that would not upset me in the least.

Btw, ten years on an ambulance, I never picked up anyone shot a criminal or any criminal shot by a victim. However, stupid people shot each other a lot. While my personal experience isn't a large enough sample, stats do back up that is who is getting shot the most. Accidental shootings and suicides far out weight any other deaths by gun shot. I only tell so you know what influences my views. Stupid people concern me.

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Yeah but I think stupid people will find many other ways to hurt and even kill themselves without a gun. Don't you?

Why do people keep bringing suicide into this, especially liberals? On just about every suicide thread, they are ALL for allowing people to commit suicide. Does it matter what tool they use to do it? You should just leave suicide out of it. Those people want to die and will find another way.

Boo Radley said:

So an opinion you don't like is dishonest?

You're getting lazy TD. Anyway, read my last post to you for a reason.

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its stupid to say you support restrictions that have nothing to do with stopping the stupid from having gun accidents or suicides