Should high school students break up fights in school?

Dezaad said:

Like Hell it does. I can't believe the arrogance that is conveyed by this post. Grimm is correct in stating that as long as he pays for it, he gets a say. Hell, he gets a say even if he doesn't pay taxes! But the taxpayer status does absolutely legitimize his involvement.

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Absolutely not. In these circumstances, this is a matter for school officials, the parents involved, and the larger public school system. It would take an extraordinary matter to expand the scope to the public.

That you see the morality of heroism as a mere platitude is depressing. How jaded your worldview must be!

You actually have quite an important role - turning children in to productive, responsible adults. There is nothing dull or ordinary about this responsibility. You ought to be excited about the opportunity to develop character in young people.

Fiddytree said:

You aren't. You have no kids in the schools, you aren't an employee of the school system, you aren't a teacher, you're not an administrator. This is rather obvious. Just because my taxes subsidize farmers doesn't mean I get to dictate what is responsible behavior of agriculture with any authority.



And as such, the role of the educator extending beyond the subject they teach means that they are the ones expected to make the environment safe for its students-not the students themselves.



Which I already said in response to your initial platitude of "value systems."

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Peter Grimm said:

That you see the morality of heroism as a mere platitude is depressing. How jaded your worldview must be!

You actually have quite an important role - turning children in to productive, responsible adults. There is nothing dull or ordinary about this responsibility. You ought to be excited about the opportunity to develop character in young people.

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Dear Lord.

You would be instituting character and respect for authority by demonstrating that some things are not your domain. You can still do the right thing. If it is a desperate situation and no one is around, yes, the student can and perhaps should get involved. Otherwise, get the adults in charge, let the adults in charge do their job. Nevertheless, on the whole, students on the outside should not be breaking up fights, because they are not the adults in charge, and yes, they bring unnecessary complications and dangers to the situation. This is their job, their legal responsibility-to protect everyone, including protecting students from themselves.

Fiddytree said:

Absolutely not. In these circumstances, this is a matter for school officials, the parents involved, and the larger public school system. It would take an extraordinary matter to expand the scope to the public.

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Well, that is your opinion. But, he does pay taxes, and he does get to vote, and if he wants to interfere in the workings of publicly funded schools he can do so, and to a real extent his power as a voter and his legitimacy as a taxpayer will carry some weight, despite your opinion.

Dezaad said:

Well, that is your opinion. But, he does pay taxes, and he does get to vote, and if he wants to interfere in the workings of publicly funded schools he can do so, and to a real extent his power as a voter and his legitimacy as a taxpayer will carry some weight, despite your opinion.

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But he has almost no weight. That's my point. His opinion on what happens in a school building one day nearly means squat. Taxpayer status is on the bottom of the totem poll, one step above being a tax payer and criticizing a private school.

On what basis do you call yourself an authority?

Fiddytree said:

Dear Lord.

You would be instituting character and respect for authority by demonstrating that some things are not your domain. You can still do the right thing. If it is a desperate situation and no one is around, yes, the student can and perhaps should get involved. Otherwise, get the adults in charge, let the adults in charge do their job. Nevertheless, on the whole, students on the outside should not be breaking up fights, because they are not the adults in charge, and yes, they bring unnecessary complications and dangers to the situation. This is their job, their legal responsibility-to protect everyone, including protecting students from themselves.

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Peter Grimm said:

On what basis do you call yourself an authority?

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I was merely a student teacher (though have a teacher's license), but during that time, I was legally required to break up fights every day and could not let them do it themselves. Furthermore, prior to that, I had extensive personal experience going up the authority chain with bullying experiences I had went through and which we had fought up the chain.

You should be legally required to break up fights, at least within reason. If you're around, you shouldn't let them do it themselves. In doing so, you are leading by example. In that sense, I'm in agreement with the law.

My opinion only differs from yours with respect to those instances when there is no teacher present. If a student witnesses something they know is wrong (drug use, bullying, etc) then they should either drop what they're doing and rush to report it, or intervene themselves... depending on their judgement.

Fiddytree said:

I was merely a student teacher (though have a teacher's license), but during that time, I was legally required to break up fights every day and could not let them do it themselves. Furthermore, prior to that, I had extensive personal experience going up the authority chain with bullying experiences I had went through and which we had fought up the chain.

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Peter Grimm said:

I agree. I just don't want to teach kids, when they're young and impressionable and at the age where they're learning about life, that the right thing to do when they see something going on is to walk away and ignore it.

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Disagree, my "yammering" is this...Do not necessarily walk away...if its a fair fight, it will burn itself out...if not, then manly action is required.

I completely agree. I think you quoted the wrong guy! :2razz:

earthworm said:

Disagree, my "yammering" is this...Do not necessarily walk away...if its a fair fight, it will burn itself out...if not, then manly action is required.

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earthworm said:

Disagree, my "yammering" is this...Do not necessarily walk away...if its a fair fight, it will burn itself out...if not, then manly action is required.

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You do know a teacher or administrator would not last long at all in that position if that is the approach they take, right? This is beyond irresponsible. Lawsuits would be filed, for goodness sake's.

My opinion only differs from yours with respect to those instances when there is no teacher present. If a student witnesses something they know is wrong (drug use, bullying, etc) then they should either drop what they're doing and rush to report it, or intervene themselves... depending on their judgement.

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If they see bullying, they can help stop it if no one is around, but they need to report it. If they see drug use, report immediately, do not intervene. Not depending on their judgment, for goodness sakes.

marcus903 said:

Do you honestly think high school students should break up fights in school and help keep the school safer?

1. What do you think the reward should be?

2. Should students be punished for trying to break up the fight?

3. What would you do if a student broke up a fight?

Answer my questions, now.

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Damn, high school sure isn't the same as when I went. If there was a fight, and no adults were around it ended on its own.

marcus903 said:

Do you honestly think high school students should break up fights in school and help keep the school safer?

1. What do you think the reward should be?

2. Should students be punished for trying to break up the fight?

3. What would you do if a student broke up a fight?

Answer my questions, now.

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I told my son to stay out of it, aside from certain very limited very extreme and unlikely situations of a specific nature.

Mostly, it isn't worth sticking your nose in. The authorities will likely percieve you as a participant in the fight and require you to prove that you were not; there are liability concerns as well. Grabbing someone who is fighting, or getting between two fighters, is a good way to get hurt.

Also, you often won't know what is going on: who started it, who is in the wrong, what the details are... and whether this might involve you in an ongoing grudge feud that could escalate beyond mere adolescent fisticuffs.

marcus903 said:

Do you honestly think high school students should break up fights in school and help keep the school safer?

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Sure, if there is no one in authority around and they can do so without making the situation worse, of course they should.

marcus903 said:

1. What do you think the reward should be?

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Nothing.

marcus903 said:

2. Should students be punished for trying to break up the fight?

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No.

marcus903 said:

3. What would you do if a student broke up a fight?

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Nothing.

Goshin said:

The authorities will likely percieve you as a participant in the fight and require you to prove that you were not;

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This is a valid point. If a teacher walking out of her classroom comes across four students in a rugby scrum, all four will likely be suspended. There's a good chance she won't know which two started the fight and which two were trying to break it up.

That depends. so I had to go with maybe.

If there is a serous inequality between the fighters, then yes, someone should break it up. However if it is not a case of someone stronger bulling the weak, then it should be allowed to continue.

Unfortunately, the local schools in my area of Texas "punish" everyone involved in a fight. So the crowd definitely won't step in and the person defending him/her self gets "punished" also. This is obviously biased treatment inspired by people who believe that all violence is wrong. But, I believe it to be wrong. Children should always be taught and encouraged to defend themselves and those less capable of defending themselves.

OK, a lot of you seem to have misconceptions about these "fights" since you are no longer in high school.

There is a difference between getting "beat up"
and getting into a "fight"

As many of you know, I attend a high school of 1800 students so we occasionally have fights in the hallway. Most often a teacher is there within moments to break up the fight and they are successful in stopping the fight because they have authority.

People are not getting "raped" as Peter Grimm seems to be suggesting, they are squabbling over trivial affairs, such as drugs, relationships, and money.

You want me to step in and break up fisticuffs between two punks? They aren't going to beat each other to death.
Besides, most of these squabbles are nothing more than two teenagers wrassling each other to the ground.

I'll be honest, I don't want to get in the middle of any of that and get my nose broken or get a black eye, which is really the worst that could happen.

However, if someone is getting beaten on, kids know when that's wrong, and they'll do something to stop it, reluctantly.