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Should high school students break up fights in school?

Should high school students break up fights in school?

  • Total voters
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M

marcus903

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Feb 28, 2012
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Location
Milwaukee, WI
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Do you honestly think high school students should break up fights in school and help keep the school safer?

1. What do you think the reward should be?

2. Should students be punished for trying to break up the fight?

3. What would you do if a student broke up a fight?

Answer my questions, now.
 
Only to an extent. This should be the domain of the school staff. The staff are there to promote a safe learning environment, and they are the authorities (unlike the students). That is not the job of the students, and the students should not be put in positions of power.
 
Some schools have hall monitors which are volunteers and usually upper classmen. The ones I have seen are atheletes on top of it. I would not want to start trouble knowing someone built like those guys was going to be on my case.
 
marcus903 said:
Do you honestly think high school students should break up fights in school and help keep the school safer?

1. What do you think the reward should be?

2. Should students be punished for trying to break up the fight?

3. What would you do if a student broke up a fight?

Answer my questions, now.
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I say maybe, but only in the sense they get a teacher and school security guards.If its a school out in the country then maybe they could have students who are 18 years or older help assist teachers in stopping a fighting,assuming those students signed a waiver saying they won't sue.Just allowing students in general be able to break up school fights could lead to lawsuits by parents angry that their kid was assaulted for trying to break up a fight or assault by a student trying to break up the fight and so on.
 
I can't even imagine a value system where someone would respond "no" to this. Should they learn to just hang back and do nothing while someone is getting beat up?

Someone please explain that to me.

Read my sig line, BTW.

marcus903 said:
Do you honestly think high school students should break up fights in school and help keep the school safer?

1. What do you think the reward should be?

2. Should students be punished for trying to break up the fight?

3. What would you do if a student broke up a fight?

Answer my questions, now.
Click to expand...
 
Peter Grimm said:
I can't even imagine a value system where someone would respond "no" to this. Should they learn to just hang back and do nothing while someone is getting beat up?

Someone please explain that to me.

Read my sig line, BTW.
Click to expand...

From the school's perspective, it is a safety issue for all parties involved. This doesn't get to clear-cut "value systems." If no one is around, and there is a serious issue, yes, a student might need to intervene, but, you have to understand that as soon as another student becomes involved, their safety is now in question, as well as what that student might do to one of the other students in the process.
 
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It reminds me of the woman who was raped in a New York subway, in full view of several witnesses, none of whom did anything to stop the attack.

She cried rape



Or the story of the 18 year old disabled woman in Los Angeles who was raped on a public buss, while onlookers did nothing:

Woman Raped On Bus As Onlookers Ignore Incident - Mass Transit




Or the story of the 15 year old girl who was gang raped at Richmond high school, and onlookers reportedly "laughed."

How Could Bystanders Do Nothing as a Teen Gets Raped? - ABC News




Or the 4 year old boy who was tortured in public while onlookers did nothing...

LiveLeak.com - 4 Yr Old Boy Tortured In China While Onlookers Do Nothing (comments)




Or the old man attacked in public by a gang of kids, while onlookers shot youtube videos...

Man Attacked; Onlookers Film And Do Nothing | Brad Rourke's Blog




Fiddytree said:
From the school's perspective, it is a safety issue for all parties involved. This doesn't get to clear-cut "value systems." If no one is around, and there is a serious issue, yes, a student might need to intervene, but, you have to understand that as soon as another student becomes involved, their safety is now in question, as well as what that student might do to one of the other students in the process.
Click to expand...
 
marcus903 said:
Do you honestly think high school students should break up fights in school and help keep the school safer?

1. What do you think the reward should be?

2. Should students be punished for trying to break up the fight?

3. What would you do if a student broke up a fight?

Answer my questions, now.
Click to expand...

1....no "reward" ...it should be expected that young men act in a civilized manner, at least most of the time...Fighting is a natural thing for children to do...we must keep the fight fair and clean, if it is not, or a participant is being hurt, then its time for a break up, and two or more should do this..
2....It would be ludicrous, unfair, even stupid.....now , those who would sit and watch, even as one is being hurt - they are the ones who should be punished.
3....depends... a thank you hurts not....even a shaken hand....probably nothing.....depends.... I would "stick up " for him..
 
Peter Grimm said:
It reminds me of the woman who was raped in a New York subway, in full view of several witnesses, none of whom did anything to stop the attack.

She cried rape



Or the story of the 18 year old disabled woman in Los Angeles who was raped on a public buss, while onlookers did nothing:

Woman Raped On Bus As Onlookers Ignore Incident - Mass Transit




Or the story of the 15 year old girl who was gang raped at Richmond high school, and onlookers reportedly "laughed."

How Could Bystanders Do Nothing as a Teen Gets Raped? - ABC News




Or the 4 year old boy who was tortured in public while onlookers did nothing...

LiveLeak.com - 4 Yr Old Boy Tortured In China While Onlookers Do Nothing (comments)




Or the old man attacked in public by a gang of kids, while onlookers shot youtube videos...

Man Attacked; Onlookers Film And Do Nothing | Brad Rourke's Blog
Click to expand...
We need a better people.
Of course these are some examples showing our bad side.
We do have a good side.
 
Fiddytree said:
From the school's perspective, it is a safety issue for all parties involved. This doesn't get to clear-cut "value systems." If no one is around, and there is a serious issue, yes, a student might need to intervene, but, you have to understand that as soon as another student becomes involved, their safety is now in question, as well as what that student might do to one of the other students in the process.
Click to expand...

Man is really going down-hill if he worries that much about his "safety".
 
Peter Grimm said:
It reminds me of the woman who was raped in a New York subway, in full view of several witnesses, none of whom did anything to stop the attack.

She cried rape



Or the story of the 18 year old disabled woman in Los Angeles who was raped on a public buss, while onlookers did nothing:

Woman Raped On Bus As Onlookers Ignore Incident - Mass Transit




Or the story of the 15 year old girl who was gang raped at Richmond high school, and onlookers reportedly "laughed."

How Could Bystanders Do Nothing as a Teen Gets Raped? - ABC News




Or the 4 year old boy who was tortured in public while onlookers did nothing...

LiveLeak.com - 4 Yr Old Boy Tortured In China While Onlookers Do Nothing (comments)




Or the old man attacked in public by a gang of kids, while onlookers shot youtube videos...

Man Attacked; Onlookers Film And Do Nothing | Brad Rourke's Blog
Click to expand...
earthworm said:
....no "reward" ...it should be expected that young men act in a civilized manner, at least most of the time...Fighting is a natural thing for children to do...we must keep the fight fair and clean, if it is not, or a participant is being hurt, then its time for a break up, and two or more should do this..
2....It would be ludicrous, unfair, even stupid.....now , those who would sit and watch, even as one is being hurt - they are the ones who should be punished.
3....depends... a thank you hurts not....even a shaken hand....probably nothing.....depends.... I would "stick up " for him..
Click to expand...

earthworm said:
Man is really going down-hill if he worries that much about his "safety".
Click to expand...

All of which tells me nothing about being grounded in reality. Once people can start talking about what is actually needing to be considered from the school's perspective, this kind of yammering is meaningless.
 
I agree. I just don't want to teach kids, when they're young and impressionable and at the age where they're learning about life, that the right thing to do when they see something going on is to walk away and ignore it.

earthworm said:
We need a better people.
Of course these are some examples showing our bad side.
We do have a good side.
Click to expand...
 
Depends on the demographics of the school and the intervenor.
 
You can't make the connection? The whole point of "school" is to teach. Either we teach kids that when they see something bad, the right thing is to walk away, or we teach them to do the right thing and intervene.

If we choose the former, we will have a society full of stories such as the ones I linked.

If a school can't accomplish its main objective, to turn young people in to productive adults, then what good is that school?

Fiddytree said:
All of which tells me nothing about being grounded in reality. Once people can start talking about what is actually needing to be considered from the school's perspective, this kind of yammering is meaningless.
Click to expand...
 
We used to break up fights so our friends wouldn't get suspended. Once a teacher showed up, it was their problem.
 
Peter Grimm said:
You can't make the connection? The whole point of "school" is to teach. Either we teach kids that when they see something bad, the right thing is to walk away, or we teach them to do the right thing and intervene.

If we choose the former, we will have a society full of stories such as the ones I linked.

If a school can't accomplish its main objective, to turn young people in to productive adults, then what good is that school?
Click to expand...

I get that people outside the discipline of education really like their platitudes, but this is ridiculous. You do not put a student in a position where they are the ones expected to maintain order.

earthworm said:
we must keep the fight fair and clean, if it is not, or a participant is being hurt, then its time for a break up, and two or more should do this..
Click to expand...

And earthworm, having the school let a fight go on until someone gets hurt? Come on. Can you at least be up to par on what responsible administrative/teacher behavior is before suggesting students get into the fray?
 
I don't think students should break up fights, that's the job of the school security/administration, if the students want to they shouldn't be punished or rewarded, though. And I don't see how fighting is a danger in schools, most fights (at least in the High School I go to) are one-on-one where both parties agree to fight, they're usually never assaults where one student sucker-punches the other. Once one student 'throws-in-the towel' the fight is usually over.
 
As long as my taxes are paying for the whole shebang, I'm not on the "outside" of anything. This is very much my business. If you're not teaching kids proper values, then you're not doing your job - period.

If someone sees something they know is wrong, the right thing to do is to intervene on behalf of the one that's helpless. You don't teach kids to walk away.

Fiddytree said:
I get that people outside the discipline of education really like their platitudes, but this is ridiculous. You do not put a student in a position where they are the ones expected to maintain order.
Click to expand...
 
Peter Grimm said:
As long as my taxes are paying for the whole shebang, I'm not on the "outside" of anything. This is very much my business. If you're not teaching kids proper values, then you're not doing your job - period.

If someone sees something they know is wrong, the right thing to do is to intervene on behalf of the one that's helpless. You don't teach kids to walk away.
Click to expand...

You're not asking them to walk away. You're asking them to know their role, and the limitations of that role. The role of the instructor and administrator is to make sure everyone is safe, observer or not. The student can intervene in extraordinary circumstances, but no, they should not be the ones breaking up the fights. That is the duty of the school. A school that encourages its students to break up the fights themselves is the irresponsible one.

For all intents and purposes, your taxpayer status means absolutely nothing. You're an outsider, pure and simple.
 
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Fiddytree said:
From the school's perspective, it is a safety issue for all parties involved. This doesn't get to clear-cut "value systems." If no one is around, and there is a serious issue, yes, a student might need to intervene, but, you have to understand that as soon as another student becomes involved, their safety is now in question, as well as what that student might do to one of the other students in the process.
Click to expand...

This is frequently the case when one becomes involved in bad situations. I don't think that teaching kids to only be concerned for their own safety is the right thing to do.
 
It means I'm a stakeholder. Once I have kids, then I'll be even more of a stakeholder.

Like it or not, your job as an educator extends beyond the subject you teach. Kids need to learn character as well. Since you have them for 8 hours a day, teaching that is partly your job.

I'm not saying you should have hall monitors, or that students are primarily responsible for the safety of other students. That responsibility does fall first on the educators. However, you and I both know that you can't be everywhere all the time. There will be times when a kid sees something going on that he knows is wrong, and there won't be anyone else around.

That's when a kid must develop character.

Fiddytree said:
You're not asking them to walk away. You're asking them to know their role, and the limitations of that role. The role of the instructor and administrator is to make sure everyone is safe, observer or not. The student can intervene in extraordinary circumstances, but no, they should not be the ones breaking up the fights. That is the duty of the school. A school that encourages its students to break up the fights themselves is the irresponsible one.

For all intents and purposes, your taxpayer status means absolutely nothing.
Click to expand...
 
Peter Grimm said:
It means I'm a stakeholder. Once I have kids, then I'll be even more of a stakeholder.
Click to expand...

You aren't. You have no kids in the schools, you aren't an employee of the school system, you aren't a teacher, you're not an administrator. This is rather obvious. Just because my taxes subsidize farmers doesn't mean I get to dictate what is responsible behavior of agriculture with any authority.

Like it or not, your job as an educator extends beyond the subject you teach, whether that's Math, Biology, whatever. Kids need to learn to have character as well. Since you have them for 8 hours a day, that makes it partly your job.
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And as such, the role of the educator extending beyond the subject they teach means that they are the ones expected to make the environment safe for its students-not the students themselves.

I'm not saying you should have hall monitors, or that students are primarily responsible for the safety of other students. That responsibility does fall first on the educators. However, you and I both know that you can't be everywhere all the time. There will be times when a kid sees something going on that he knows is wrong, and there won't be anyone else around.
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Which I already said in response to your initial platitude of "value systems."
 
Fiddytree said:
You're not asking them to walk away. You're asking them to know their role, and the limitations of that role. The role of the instructor and administrator is to make sure everyone is safe, observer or not. The student can intervene in extraordinary circumstances, but no, they should not be the ones breaking up the fights. That is the duty of the school. A school that encourages its students to break up the fights themselves is the irresponsible one.

For all intents and purposes, your taxpayer status means absolutely nothing. You're an outsider, pure and simple.
Click to expand...

Like Hell it does. I can't believe the arrogance that is conveyed by this post. Grimm is correct in stating that as long as he pays for it, he gets a say. Hell, he gets a say even if he doesn't pay taxes! But the taxpayer status does absolutely legitimize his involvement.
 
Fiddytree said:
You aren't. You have no kids in the schools, you aren't an employee of the school system, you aren't a teacher, you're not an administrator. This is rather obvious. Just because my taxes subsidize farmers doesn't mean I get to dictate what is responsible behavior of agriculture with any authority.



And as such, the role of the educator extending beyond the subject they teach means that they are the ones expected to make the environment safe for its students-not the students themselves.



Which I already said in response to your initial platitude of "value systems."
Click to expand...

Nobody says you get to 'dictate' anything, nor is Grimm saying he gets to 'dictate' anything. But you both do get a say.
 
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