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In light of today's events

How to reduce gun related violence

  • Tighter restrictions

    Votes: 19 26.8%
  • Ban Guns (repeal the second amendment)

    Votes: 3 4.2%
  • Allow for the wider use of guns for self protection

    Votes: 27 38.0%
  • Other (explain)

    Votes: 22 31.0%

  • Total voters
    71

iacardsfan

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As you all have certainly heard there was ANOTHER mass shooting, this time at a elementary school, killing at least 27. This is just one of numerous examples of gun related violence in the news recently. As with any other shooting, this raises the question of how to prevent the violence. Please share your ideas on how to prevent another major incident like this.

Ps- I would like to express my sadness and deep sorrow about this incident and my thoughts and prayers are with the victims and their families.
 
As you all have certainly heard there was ANOTHER mass shooting, this time at a elementary school, killing at least 27. This is just one of numerous examples of gun related violence in the news recently. As with any other shooting, this raises the question of how to prevent the violence. Please share your ideas on how to prevent another major incident like this.

Ps- I would like to express my sadness and deep sorrow about this incident and my thoughts and prayers are with the victims and their families.

Lock-downs that means something. You know, like when all the kids are in the building, the doors are locked down and no one gets in without a personal escort and knowing what their business is. With an emergency alarm on the inside at every door.
Steel doors for classrooms that are locked down when class begins...every classroom equipped with an alarm system wired to the local police department.
Metal detectors.
Trained and armed security.
Video cameras with full-time monitoring.

Some will say, "WTF are you talking about???" Think of what we do for fire detection/prevention in every school and classroom in the United States. How many deaths by fire do we have in American schools every year? How many deaths by morons?
 
I would hope someone comes up with a plan to train and arm the school staff. At least a designated response team within schools. Police can't be everywhere, and static security systems fail. Whatever gun controls put in place in America won't stop a psycho like we saw today from inflicted mass casualties on innocent and vulnerable victims.
 
I would personally like to see society get back to truly local and meaningful neighborly law enforcement. When the idea of
law enforcement started there was a neighbor who looked out for the others and in return was given some benefit or usually
food. Its archiac old school I know, but in this day and age we have police officers (in CA) that costs cities upwards of
$150,000 a year in total compensation including benefits, retirement, training and so on. With that budget we could hire
20 part time people to look after their "blocks" or even a few extra blocks and give the commuty a couple of days a month
each. No defined benefit plan, no health insurance, but some good training and reasonable hourly pay for someone to get
on the street and get to know everyone about - help out when needed. 20 such people giving their community 15 hours
a month would be 300 hours a month - far more than the 150 a police officer might spend on the "street" to so speak
and there'd be no over time, no future pension to fund, and in the case of a real emergency 20 people to call on.
 
I have some burning questions about how this happened...


How did this young man get SO wrong in the head that he was capable of mass-murdering little children, and no one noticed and intervened or got him psychiatric help?

How did this man get into the school armed, when most schools today have security doors and lockdown proceedures?

WHERE was the armed school resource officer (police), and why did he not act to stop this before it got so far?


I don't yet know the answers to these questions, but I think they are the ones we should be asking.


This is a horrible and tragic crime that really hit me where I live as a parent.
 
I think first and foremost should be media coverage. When incidents like these occur our media goes nuts with it and talks about it 24/7 for days/weeks/months. This gives attention to those who commit such acts and in their disturbed mind they seem to crave this attention. How many people have heard of the Bath Massacre? The most deadly school killing in the US (Bath School disaster - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia) Yet most Americans have probably never heard of it which means fewer wackos will be tempted to copycat for their 15 minutes of fame. I feel our media and societies reaction to such events is a large contributor that needs to be addressed.
 
Every teacher with a gun. Well, OK, may be only male teachers.
 
I think first and foremost should be media coverage. When incidents like these occur our media goes nuts with it and talks about it 24/7 for days/weeks/months. This gives attention to those who commit such acts and in their disturbed mind they seem to crave this attention. How many people have heard of the Bath Massacre? The most deadly school killing in the US (Bath School disaster - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia) Yet most Americans have probably never heard of it which means fewer wackos will be tempted to copycat for their 15 minutes of fame. I feel our media and societies reaction to such events is a large contributor that needs to be addressed.
This is what I've been saying since Pearl/Columbine. News networks love tragedies "If it bleeds it leads" but the blowback is that attention seeking psychotics see an out and a claim to fame.
 
Every teacher with a gun. Well, OK, may be only male teachers.

What? Why? Aren't pretty much all of these types of killers male?
 
As you all have certainly heard there was ANOTHER mass shooting, this time at a elementary school, killing at least 27. This is just one of numerous examples of gun related violence in the news recently. As with any other shooting, this raises the question of how to prevent the violence. Please share your ideas on how to prevent another major incident like this.

Ps- I would like to express my sadness and deep sorrow about this incident and my thoughts and prayers are with the victims and their families.

I think there's one huge reason that has nothing to do with guns: the media. Fox News, MSNBC, Sean Hannity, and half of the big name partisan talk radio guys (Savage, Rush Limbaugh, and Glenn Beck to name three). These guys are selling hate. They spend every day of their lives lying and creating a narrative of us versus them to achieve fame and fortune. They would gladly incite a riot and get big ratings than inspire peace and make a modest living. It's not just their fault, though, Americans are buying it.

What's the difference between now and 1980? There are exponentially increasing instances of mass violence, yet the guns we have today are no more lethal than what was around back then. The difference is the widespread hate for each other that we are exposed to every day and that so many of us are buying. We make our neighbors our enemies because we vote for a different candidate. We don't listen to each other. We don't care what they have to say. All we know is that we hate them and they are our enemies. You want a solution? Regulate them or stop purchasing their evil product.
 
I have some burning questions about how this happened...


How did this young man get SO wrong in the head that he was capable of mass-murdering little children, and no one noticed and intervened or got him psychiatric help?

How did this man get into the school armed, when most schools today have security doors and lockdown proceedures?

WHERE was the armed school resource officer (police), and why did he not act to stop this before it got so far?


I don't yet know the answers to these questions, but I think they are the ones we should be asking.


This is a horrible and tragic crime that really hit me where I live as a parent.

Me too.

But I think I may have an answer to your question. No matter what the protocols are, there are going to be exceptions no matter what rules you devise. The shooter was known to school officials--all day long I've heard "facial recognition." Unless they know otherwise, when somebody's spouse or kid shows up at work, that's different.

This very night my kid took my building key and went to my office as a favor. Nobody stopped her, and why should they? They've known her since she was a kid. She has my key and my trust. She's driving my old car. How would they know if she suddenly whacked out?

I think the shooter got past the protocols because he was known to security. There will always be exceptions to every rule. Should we change the rules because of the exceptions? Should every spouse bringing lunch to his/her sweetie as a common practice be frisked? Should we somehow have the gift of prophecy and otherwise live our lives in fear of even the known?
 
I think there's one huge reason that has nothing to do with guns: the media. Fox News, MSNBC, Sean Hannity, and half of the big name partisan talk radio guys (Savage, Rush Limbaugh, and Glenn Beck to name three). These guys are selling hate. They spend every day of their lives lying and creating a narrative of us versus them to achieve fame and fortune. They would gladly incite a riot and get big ratings than inspire peace and make a modest living. It's not just their fault, though, Americans are buying it.

What's the difference between now and 1980? There are exponentially increasing instances of mass violence, yet the guns we have today are no more lethal than what was around back then. The difference is the widespread hate for each other that we are exposed to every day and that so many of us are buying. We make our neighbors our enemies because we vote for a different candidate. We don't listen to each other. We don't care what they have to say. All we know is that we hate them and they are our enemies. You want a solution? Regulate them or stop purchasing their evil product.

This is so true! I think it was just yesterday that I was watching Rush Limbaugh and I remember him saying all of us Republicans should get our guns and go massacre a school children! /sarcasm off
 
Only three things can be done to prevent tragedies like these:

1. We need adequate means of identifying and treating people with mental illness.
2. We need more good people with guns. Too many of these shootings occur in Gun Free (Target Rich) zones, that the criminal thrives on. The only thing that stops a bad guy with a gun is a good guy with a gun, either concealed carrying or law enforcement. We need armed teachers, students on college campuses, and armed guards to protect our children.
3. More security. Guarded limited access during school hours, with surveillance, alerts and training/preparations.

Restricting the law abiding will accomplish nothing but shifting the balance of power further in favor of the criminal, leaving fewer good people with guns compared to those who don't obey such disarming laws or any other.
 
Gun ownership should now be a privilege, NOT a "right".
Our people must stand up to the NRA and its minions..
The restrictions should be that only certified sane people own them.
And this "certified sane" must be completely redefined....including certified responsibility.
There are unanswered questions ...why so many guns....one is more than enough, the now murdered owner had three of them. And, to me, its obvious that this "mass murderer" was off his rocker, yet he still had access.
Why?
But, again, the gun-loving tea bagging conservatives will stop all attempt at reform legislation...these murders will have to occur every year for another 50 years...then ,maybe, something will be done..
Probably a repeal of the second amendment...
 
I think there's one huge reason that has nothing to do with guns: the media. Fox News, MSNBC, Sean Hannity, and half of the big name partisan talk radio guys (Savage, Rush Limbaugh, and Glenn Beck to name three). These guys are selling hate. They spend every day of their lives lying and creating a narrative of us versus them to achieve fame and fortune. They would gladly incite a riot and get big ratings than inspire peace and make a modest living. It's not just their fault, though, Americans are buying it.

What's the difference between now and 1980? There are exponentially increasing instances of mass violence, yet the guns we have today are no more lethal than what was around back then. The difference is the widespread hate for each other that we are exposed to every day and that so many of us are buying. We make our neighbors our enemies because we vote for a different candidate. We don't listen to each other. We don't care what they have to say. All we know is that we hate them and they are our enemies. You want a solution? Regulate them or stop purchasing their evil product.

There is an awful lot of truth to this, and I believe the crux of the problem.
The solution is..............
We need a better people.
Maybe G Rivera on Fox News is correct, until we have a "better people" we will need a fully armed and trained policeman at every single school..
Strange that still more guns is the answer.
 
Me too.

But I think I may have an answer to your question. No matter what the protocols are, there are going to be exceptions no matter what rules you devise. The shooter was known to school officials--all day long I've heard "facial recognition." Unless they know otherwise, when somebody's spouse or kid shows up at work, that's different.

This very night my kid took my building key and went to my office as a favor. Nobody stopped her, and why should they? They've known her since she was a kid. She has my key and my trust. She's driving my old car. How would they know if she suddenly whacked out?

I think the shooter got past the protocols because he was known to security. There will always be exceptions to every rule. Should we change the rules because of the exceptions? Should every spouse bringing lunch to his/her sweetie as a common practice be frisked? Should we somehow have the gift of prophecy and otherwise live our lives in fear of even the known?
Do we really know each other ?
Was the mass murderer ever "known" ?
Where was the father ?
Do we have far too much privacy ?
 
Do we really know each other ?
Was the mass murderer ever "known" ?
Where was the father ?
Do we have far too much privacy ?

#1 No, irrelevant. Bull**** philosophical garbage.
#2 He had a mother and a father. According to reports he snapped suddenly, who knows though he is dead. Can't always see that coming.
#3 He was a grown man, irrelevant
#4 We can't have enough privacy from government. If I am breaking now laws the government does not need to know ****. Go to a judge and get a warrant if you have proof of something. Otherwise, leave us alone.
 
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I think there's one huge reason that has nothing to do with guns: the media. Fox News, MSNBC, Sean Hannity, and half of the big name partisan talk radio guys (Savage, Rush Limbaugh, and Glenn Beck to name three). These guys are selling hate. They spend every day of their lives lying and creating a narrative of us versus them to achieve fame and fortune. They would gladly incite a riot and get big ratings than inspire peace and make a modest living. It's not just their fault, though, Americans are buying it.

What's the difference between now and 1980? There are exponentially increasing instances of mass violence, yet the guns we have today are no more lethal than what was around back then. The difference is the widespread hate for each other that we are exposed to every day and that so many of us are buying. We make our neighbors our enemies because we vote for a different candidate. We don't listen to each other. We don't care what they have to say. All we know is that we hate them and they are our enemies. You want a solution? Regulate them or stop purchasing their evil product.

This is such partisan crap. Yes it's only self proclaimed conservatives preaching hate. Look around, this is a total hack job. I see just as much hate if not more coming from the left as well.
 
But I think I may have an answer to your question. No matter what the protocols are, there are going to be exceptions no matter what rules you devise. The shooter was known to school officials--all day long I've heard "facial recognition." Unless they know otherwise, when somebody's spouse or kid shows up at work, that's different.

This very night my kid took my building key and went to my office as a favor. Nobody stopped her, and why should they? They've known her since she was a kid. She has my key and my trust. She's driving my old car. How would they know if she suddenly whacked out?

Today there are neural patterns that can identify whether one is homicidal. Either a raging homicidal person or a psychopath, they have their neural patterns that can be identified. We could use their neural patterns to identify a preset or a critical state that may make one more ready to undertake mass murder.

It would take fMRI brain scans and a trained neuroimage scientist on school that would make these scans though. Plus at present they cost a lot.
 
I don't know.

Cases like these set my emotional side and my rational side against each other. I have a son the age of those children gunned down in that school. When I see that scene unfolding in my mind's eye I can't help but see my son among the terrified children in fear for their lives. That side of me yells "BAN THEM ALL!"

My rational side, though, knows the genie is already out of the bottle on that. Even if the 2nd Amendment were repealed, which I am not in favor of, there are so many guns in the US that people with ill intent would still be able to get their hands on them. It isn't like Japan where they never had a large number of guns per person to begin with.

So most people talk about "reasonable" gun control. When I look at such proposals the word "placebo" pops into my head. It certainly seems like a reasonable precaution to outlaw high capacity magazines. But anyone with a little knowhow, or you know, an internet connection, can figure out how to alter a legal magazine into a higher capacity one.

Or we could outlaw "assault rifles". I do think that might have an effect. I think it would result in psycho killers being more likely to resort to targeting the more helpless among us, such as this school shooting. A couple handguns, perhaps with altered magazines, may not be able to do as much damage in an open area like a mall as a rifle, but they are just as good against little children in a school.

These aren't people planning on taking on the cops. They want to kill as many defenseless people as possible before either taking their own lives or being arrested and enjoying their infamy. If they find it difficult to acquire "assault rifles" then they will just bring a few handguns and target the most vulnerable among us, such as small children.

Being a liberal, most of my friends are liberal and I have seen the comments on Facebook. I am staying out of those discussions because emotions are running high. But one friend lamented that it makes no sense to him that as tragedies like this unfold, people are being allowed to CCW in more and more places. But outlawing CCW would do NOTHING AT ALL to stop these kinds of tragedies. NOTHING. It would of course eliminate people like me from being able to defend against such wackos.

Look, I'm not a "gun nut". Frankly, even though I am good with them, I HATE guns. I don't get the whole American obsession with them. I respect and use them as a tool for self defense, but if I could snap my fingers and make every gun in the world along with the ability to manufacture them disappear, I would. But until I obtain that kind of magical power, I live in the real world where bad guys have guns.

And I like the idea of stopping mentally unstable people from buying guns, but how in the hell would that work? The thought of undergoing a "psych eval" is laughable to those of us who have taken them before. The people committing these atrocities appear to be intelligent sociopaths. Such people would be able to pass.

You are not going to be able to stop intelligent sociopaths from getting their hands on guns, regardless of what laws you pass. Not in the US. They will adapt to whatever restrictions you put before them.

If we accept that unfortunate reality, then what do we do? For starters, I do think we need to make our schools safer. Our children are required by law to attend them, thus the People have an obligation and a duty to ensure their safety. While simply handing out guns to teachers isn't the answer, there are many things we could do to make our schools safer.

-Pay teachers who are reserve police officers a bonus. This would result in having some armed teachers in the school, but they would be trained LEOs as well. Perhaps also open this up to teacher who are veterans (upon receiving similar training).
-Station police cars at schools during school hours. I see them camped out at places like Wal-Mart all the freaking time to deter shoplifters. I would rather see them at schools in case they are needed. Yep, that costs money. Don't care. Raise taxes or cut somewhere else.
-Make it damn near impossible to get into a school without clearance. Look, I work in embassies. I know from experience it is possible to make a place secure and still not feel like a prison. Yes, it costs money. Stop spending money on stupid sh!t like drug busts and prostitution stings and start protecting our children!

And in the meantime if they can come up with gun control that would actually matter, rather than simply giving people a warm and fuzzy inside, I would likely support it.
 
And I like the idea of stopping mentally unstable people from buying guns, but how in the hell would that work? The thought of undergoing a "psych eval" is laughable to those of us who have taken them before. The people committing these atrocities appear to be intelligent sociopaths. Such people would be able to pass.

Psychological evaluation as in with questionnaires or other visual tests such as Rorschach and TAT may be "laughable" to detect with accuracy the brain of a sociopath for there are validity and reliability issues. But the physical appearance neurons within sociopaths or raging murderers differ from one another and (more importantly) from a non homicidal person. This difference can be used for identification, and it should be more valid and reliable.

You are not going to be able to stop intelligent sociopaths from getting their hands on guns, regardless of what laws you pass. Not in the US. They will adapt to whatever restrictions you put before them.

I agree that it would take more people buying from the underground instead of the government. Buying guns may be a dead issue. But letting a homicidal person inside schools may not be.
 
Psychological evaluation as in with questionnaires or other visual tests such as Rorschach and TAT may be "laughable" to detect with accuracy the brain of a sociopath for there are validity and reliability issues. But the physical appearance neurons within sociopaths or raging murderers differ from one another and (more importantly) from a non homicidal person. This difference can be used for identification, and it should be more valid and reliable.

If you delve a little deeper into those studies, though, you will see they have no predictive power. Not everyone who commits such crimes show those markers and MOST people who have those markers live out their lives as law abiding citizens.
 
If you delve a little deeper into those studies, though, you will see they have no predictive power. Not everyone who commits such crimes show those markers and MOST people who have those markers live out their lives as law abiding citizens.

Excellent points. We don't want to head down the "thought police" road anyway.
 
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