• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

In light of today's events

How to reduce gun related violence

  • Tighter restrictions

    Votes: 19 26.8%
  • Ban Guns (repeal the second amendment)

    Votes: 3 4.2%
  • Allow for the wider use of guns for self protection

    Votes: 27 38.0%
  • Other (explain)

    Votes: 22 31.0%

  • Total voters
    71
Explain the need to be armed....its 2012, not 1612 or 1812.
And I know what it is !
That does NOT make it right..
IMO, gun ownership SHOULD BE a privilege, NOT a right. And, it is slowly becoming more of a privledge and less of a right, which addles the hell out of gun loving conservatives.


For one, self-defense against armed criminals.


When you can GUARANTEE I will never be threatened by an armed criminal, we can talk more.
 
As you all have certainly heard there was ANOTHER mass shooting, this time at a elementary school, killing at least 27. This is just one of numerous examples of gun related violence in the news recently. As with any other shooting, this raises the question of how to prevent the violence. Please share your ideas on how to prevent another major incident like this.

Ps- I would like to express my sadness and deep sorrow about this incident and my thoughts and prayers are with the victims and their families.
Loading on more restrictions is not the answer. Punishing the majority for the psychotic stupidity of the very few is simply unfair. As the aftermath of this madness unravels, I'm certain we're going to see all kinds of indicators that lead to these senseless killings, and most of it will probably come down to major neglect on the parent's part.
 
1. We need a ton of work here, IMO, its nearly impossible with the "mental" health people we have today
2. We do NOT need more guns !
The mass murderer was not a so-called criminal, in many, if not most cases they are not..

He stole firearms and killed people, how was he not a criminal?

Why don't we need more guns? How else stop a bad man with a gun? If you were there, would you be concerned or relieved with the police (good guys with guns) show up?

We do not need any return to the wild west (and east) days, when everyone wore a gun.
3. High quality security, not "more".
A school is still an institute of learning, NOT a prison...

The wild west wasn't nearly as wild as you suggest, what do you consider "high security" that is not "more" and no one suggested barbed gates, guard towers and cell blocks. Just a security guard or assigned law enforcement at the only unlocked entrance. Are you suggesting that no guard be present and all entrances remain unsecured?
 
Explain the need to be armed....its 2012, not 1612 or 1812.
And I know what it is !
That does NOT make it right..
IMO, gun ownership SHOULD BE a privilege, NOT a right. And, it is slowly becoming more of a privledge and less of a right, which addles the hell out of gun loving conservatives.

So should the President's secret service, and our politician's security/bodyguards be prohibited from carrying weapons for their defense?
 
There have been a lot of good ideas shared about how to keep schools safer specifically. I was talking how to reduce gun related violence in general. So if you all would like to chime in on that feel free :D
 
I have some burning questions about how this happened...


How did this young man get SO wrong in the head that he was capable of mass-murdering little children, and no one noticed and intervened or got him psychiatric help?

How did this man get into the school armed, when most schools today have security doors and lockdown proceedures?

WHERE was the armed school resource officer (police), and why did he not act to stop this before it got so far?


I don't yet know the answers to these questions, but I think they are the ones we should be asking.


This is a horrible and tragic crime that really hit me where I live as a parent.

He had indications of mental problems and apparently suffered from "Aspergers syndrome". How could a school teacher not lock her weapons away from her son? Why was she so unaware of the incredible danger those weapons could be? I blame the NRA and the gun culture that insists that weapons in the home make you safer. It apparently lulled her into a false sense of security. The extreme negative poitential of irresponsible gun ownership needs to taught to every perspective gun buyer and backed up by laws that are enforced. If that reduces gun sales then tough. Alot of people that own guns lack the discipline and responsiblitiy to keep from making themselves or their loved ones targets of the very weapon they think "protects" them. That is blatantly obvious in this latest bloodfest.
 
Last edited:
Everyone knows where I stand or thinks they do.

The problem is that in my opinion the only thing that wil change anything is an horrific national incident that will make this horrible tragedy look like a walk in the park.
 
What kind of pistols?

a 9mm Glock and some variation of a SIG Sauer; he may have had another weapon in the building but there seems to be conflicting reports on that and whether it was used.
 
As you all have certainly heard there was ANOTHER mass shooting, this time at a elementary school, killing at least 27. This is just one of numerous examples of gun related violence in the news recently. As with any other shooting, this raises the question of how to prevent the violence. Please share your ideas on how to prevent another major incident like this.

Ps- I would like to express my sadness and deep sorrow about this incident and my thoughts and prayers are with the victims and their families.

You aren't going to prevent another incident. The entire concept of using the power of the state to prevent bad behavior is a pipe dream. It can't work.

The best we, as a society, can do to reduce the likelihood of this kind of thing happening is to start encouraging personal responsibility and making sure that consequences for bad behavior are both tendered and enforced.

Look at this mess....millions of people blaming guns for the shooting or blaming lax gun laws or blaming hate speech or whatever. The fact of the matter is that the person that should get the blame is the shooter and anybody that helped him. It's HIS fault that these kids got shot and not the fault of the 2nd amendment or the NRA or anyone else. It was HIM....just him.

No sane person wants to see a tragedy like this occur. No sane person thinks that it's a good thing that it did happen but to hold millions upon millions of responsible, law abiding people responsible (even indirectly) for this kind of thing is unconscionable.

Let me ask this question...if we are to cede all responsibility for our safety to the state and the state lets us down then who are we supposed to turn to? Who will protect us when we have taken away all means to protect ourselves and our "benefactor" either can't or won't protect us?
 
Only three things can be done to prevent tragedies like these:

1. We need adequate means of identifying and treating people with mental illness.
2. We need more good people with guns. Too many of these shootings occur in Gun Free (Target Rich) zones, that the criminal thrives on. The only thing that stops a bad guy with a gun is a good guy with a gun, either concealed carrying or law enforcement. We need armed teachers, students on college campuses, and armed guards to protect our children.
3. More security. Guarded limited access during school hours, with surveillance, alerts and training/preparations.

Restricting the law abiding will accomplish nothing but shifting the balance of power further in favor of the criminal, leaving fewer good people with guns compared to those who don't obey such disarming laws or any other.

Have you got any 'stats' for where, and how often, these 'good guys' with guns intervene?

Paul
 
It was interesting this morning when I turned on CNN. They literally spent 10 minutes talking about the assault rifle that was found in the trunk of the car. It wasn't even used. Might as well talk about the nearest M1 Abrams tank at the National Guard armory too, since it was utilized just as much.

He obviously (at some point) had an intention of using the assault rifle, or why put it in the car?

Paul
 
Look at this mess....millions of people blaming guns for the shooting or blaming lax gun laws or blaming hate speech or whatever. The fact of the matter is that the person that should get the blame is the shooter and anybody that helped him. It's HIS fault that these kids got shot and not the fault of the 2nd amendment or the NRA or anyone else. It was HIM....just him.

And societal conditions play NO part?

Paul
 
And societal conditions play NO part?

Paul

Societal conditions can influence the decisions that one makes but, ultimately, the decision regarding how to respond to those influences lies with the individual.

Let's say that this shooter was locked in his basement for 10 years and tortured by his mother. His choice to shoot her would likely have been influenced by his social conditioning and it would have been understandable. His further decision to go to the school and shoot the kids might also be understandable but it definitely wouldn't be acceptable.
 
I would hope someone comes up with a plan to train and arm the school staff. At least a designated response team within schools. Police can't be everywhere, and static security systems fail. Whatever gun controls put in place in America won't stop a psycho like we saw today from inflicted mass casualties on innocent and vulnerable victims.

Before we start forcing elementary school teachers to learn to shoot and keep a gun in their desk, why don't we see where the paper trail leads on how the person got the guns. Did his mother fill out the permits herself? Who sold her the guns, was this really done by the book? Why does a women who hosts dice parties and put up Christmas decorations go out buy an assault rifle?

And why don't we wait and see what type of therapy he may have had and if some doctor had treated or officially diagnosed him.

With regard to metal disease and involuntary commitment, perhaps we need to consider reviewing the restrictions and checks on gun ownership for people who have been diagnosed or treated for manic-depression and schizophrenia. They don't always get hospital treatment.

When a family member of mine was diagnosed with Alzheimers, I was surprise that the doctor was not legally obligated to notify the department of motor vehicles. This was only done by request.

When a doctor makes an official diagnosis of manic-depression or schizophrenia, why are they not required to notify local police or the state department responsible for gun permits. And if you have a mentally ill adult living in your home, then we should assume they have access to weapons you may have a legal permit for. The guns should be confiscated by police until a judge determines the likelihood of a violent episode.

This notion that we can never predict when a person is going to snap is totally false. Metal diseases don't come on suddenly like a cold.

In the wake of the Colorado shooting, there were tons of red flags that were either missed or ignored -- a therapist had contacted police. The police and the local gun club dropped the ball and we should questioned about their inaction.
 
Before we start forcing elementary school teachers to learn to shoot and keep a gun in their desk, why don't we see where the paper trail leads on how the person got the guns. Did his mother fill out the permits herself? Who sold her the guns, was this really done by the book? Why does a women who hosts dice parties and put up Christmas decorations go out buy an assault rifle?

I didn't say force. I think in most cases you'll find several people in any school more than willing to serve on an armed response team. Further, it doesn't matter why she had it, it's a legal firearm purchased legally. "Assault rifle" merely refers to what the weapon looks like. It can be just as lethal as a hunting style rifle as an "assault" style rifle.

And why don't we wait and see what type of therapy he may have had and if some doctor had treated or officially diagnosed him.

With regard to metal disease and involuntary commitment, perhaps we need to consider reviewing the restrictions and checks on gun ownership for people who have been diagnosed or treated for manic-depression and schizophrenia. They don't always get hospital treatment.

When a family member of mine was diagnosed with Alzheimers, I was surprise that the doctor was not legally obligated to notify the department of motor vehicles. This was only done by request.

When a doctor makes an official diagnosis of manic-depression or schizophrenia, why are they not required to notify local police or the state department responsible for gun permits. And if you have a mentally ill adult living in your home, then we should assume they have access to weapons you may have a legal permit for. The guns should be confiscated by police until a judge determines the likelihood of a violent episode.

This notion that we can never predict when a person is going to snap is totally false. Metal diseases don't come on suddenly like a cold.

In the wake of the Colorado shooting, there were tons of red flags that were either missed or ignored -- a therapist had contacted police. The police and the local gun club dropped the ball and we should questioned about their inaction.

The answer to all these is: The right to privacy.
 
a 9mm Glock and some variation of a SIG Sauer; he may have had another weapon in the building but there seems to be conflicting reports on that and whether it was used.

As of 6:00 PM my time, he used a semi automatic weapon which is an assault weapon.
 
As of 6:00 PM my time, he used a semi automatic weapon which is an assault weapon.
Nope. Please feel free to give us the technical definitions of semi-automatic and assault weapons. We'll wait.
 
As of 6:00 PM my time, he used a semi automatic weapon which is an assault weapon.

See this is the problem. Below is a picture of a 30-06 semi-auto rifle that is a very common hunting rifle. It is probably one of the most common big game hunting rifles around in the US. Now the democrats have tried in the past to declare this an assault weapon, but I think you can look at it (unless you are a no gun for anybody person) and see that it is hardly comparable to an M-16.

100_0228.jpg
 
this raises the question of how to prevent the violence.

It can't be prevented, and no matter what you do, there will always be violence. There are only two things anyone can do about it:

1. Accept that human beings are a violent species of animal, instead of the touchy feely nonsense that all people are inherently good.

2. Protect you and yours.
 
You cannot love the crazy out of people's heads.
In a way, one can....
Prevention
Love the baby, love the child
Without these, yes, the child can grow to be way off center, even a murderer....and then it is too late...
My idea is that only those "on center" can own guns...All others are too great a risk..
I am too great a risk, and I know it....
 
In a way, one can....
Prevention
Love the baby, love the child
Without these, yes, the child can grow to be way off center, even a murderer....and then it is too late...
My idea is that only those "on center" can own guns...All others are too great a risk..
I am too great a risk, and I know it....

Guns are inanimate objects, tools really, with no magical power. The more the left tries to play them up as evil, the more luring they become to those who would misuse them. I have been so mad I wanted to beat people silly, but the thought of pulling out a gun has never entered my mind, ever. I grew up with them; I own them; I used to hunt with them and will occasionally still target shoot with them. I plan on building a new house out of the urban area I live in now and I know where I will be the police will not be a few minutes away; and packs of coyotes are known to go after pets and animals. They are tools, nothing more.
 
What kind of pistols?

A Sig and a Glock. I certainly hope you're not going to start talking about "Assault pistols", because there is no such thing by any accepted definition.
 
Back
Top Bottom